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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    The interesting thing about Rachel Summers is that she is not a natural addition to the Summers family. She is someone who shouldn’t be there.

    And how she finally fits in is the story. If it is taken as granted… it has no interest. For me anyway.

  2. #47
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    I just hapen to have some questions about Rachel! Hopefully this thread can help me!

    First off, does anyone know about how old she is supposed to be? I was reading her Wikipedia entry, and it mentioned her enrolling in college a long time ago, but didn't give an issue #.

    I'm also intrigued by her relationship with Kurt. Wikipedia says they first kissed in #450 (2004), but "nothing came of it." Yet I've also ready they eventually began sleeping together, but she ended it after she realized she was under the control of someone named Mesmero? Does anyone have any relative time frames or issue #s I should look out for to get that whole story?

    Finally, apparently she is bisexual now? Can anyone give me an issue where that was established?

    Thanks a lot!

  3. #48
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimybug View Post
    I just hapen to have some questions about Rachel! Hopefully this thread can help me!

    First off, does anyone know about how old she is supposed to be? I was reading her Wikipedia entry, and it mentioned her enrolling in college a long time ago, but didn't give an issue #.

    I'm also intrigued by her relationship with Kurt. Wikipedia says they first kissed in #450 (2004), but "nothing came of it." Yet I've also ready they eventually began sleeping together, but she ended it after she realized she was under the control of someone named Mesmero? Does anyone have any relative time frames or issue #s I should look out for to get that whole story?

    Finally, apparently she is bisexual now? Can anyone give me an issue where that was established?

    Thanks a lot!
    She should be early to mid 20s. I'd say 23ish is about right

    The Kurt relationship happened in X-men Gold back in 2017-2018. It was serious as he was going to propose to her

    Some people think she's bi or gay but as of now, the current canon says she is still heterosexual

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She should be early to mid 20s. I'd say 23ish is about right

    The Kurt relationship happened in X-men Gold back in 2017-2018. It was serious as he was going to propose to her

    Some people think she's bi or gay but as of now, the current canon says she is still heterosexual
    So just out of curiosity, what has happened to make people think that without it being made definitive?

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Scott-Rachel-Nate operate as a family unit. Rachel-Nathan operate as a family unit. Scott-Jean-Nathan operate as a family unity. The four of them don't, and we've been shown that based on the fact that the two women are not shown together interacting. And one splash page of a trip to the Shi'ar beach where they aren't engaging is not proof. It's a mixed bag in terms of what we've been shown on panel between the two of them. The problem previously has been multiple writers telling stories with characters happening at the same time with no coordination. You have Jean and Rachel reconciling and looking like they are on better terms in Red. Then in Gold you have Rachel and Jean taking pot shots at each other that read poorly. And then in Extermination you have Jean being apathetic and cold to Rachel the entire run, culminating with the famous page where she ignores Rachel's plight. You're right, we need dialogue because at this point there is nothing to give readers the right impression and depiction of what their relationship is. The fact that they haven't had ANYTHING in terms of communication or interaction doesn't let readers think they operate as a family.

    Yeah they should be close. Jean reclaimed the name Phoenix in honor of Rachel and sought her out after her resurrection. And Rachel was super obsessed with her. It just doesnt add up.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Thirteen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    Jean Grey's interaction with Fantomex in Grant Morrision's NEW X-MEN felt more like a Rachel moment rather than Jean, and the flirtation between the Phoenix and the Fantomex would have felt less forced given Jean's full dance card at the time.
    (I would have thought that the a time lost psychic red head with s&m undertones would have been appealing to Morrison)



    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post


    I'm not as familiar with that run as I only read it once, but in some ways the threat they were dealing with reminded me of Rachel battling Cayre in the 'Air Apparent' annual/issue where he would kill and absorb people and just regenerate himself. Also Ray rocked a killer leather jacket in that ish that I loved.
    "Sounds" like Rachel's voice to me or a reasonable facsimile thereof. But I guess like Mother, like Daughter and all that...

    Last edited by Thirteen; 01-14-2021 at 01:16 AM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She should be early to mid 20s. I'd say 23ish is about right

    The Kurt relationship happened in X-men Gold back in 2017-2018. It was serious as he was going to propose to her

    Some people think she's bi or gay but as of now, the current canon says she is still heterosexual
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She should be early to mid 20s. I'd say 23ish is about right

    The Kurt relationship happened in X-men Gold back in 2017-2018. It was serious as he was going to propose to her

    Some people think she's bi or gay but as of now, the current canon says she is still heterosexual

    23 is a bit too young.

    Days of Future Past was 33 years to the future of the story at the time, and we can assume that since it's been 40 years since that story, it's been 8 years in story time going by the 5 years real time = 1 years story time. Thus, the max age she can be is 32. This is a bit too old since we know that she's five years younger than Franklin Richards was in her timeline. Now, however old Franklin was in Days of Future Present, I can't say for sure, but it seems to be about 5/6 - about the time Rachel would have been born had Kate Rasputin not diverged and changed the timelines (as noted by Professor X's deaths). In Days of Future Past, as seen in FF 226, he's about 2/3. Jean Grey said in Days of Future Present that Rachel was about her age and if we go by Marvel time, Jean wasn't dead for all that long - really just about over a year using Cable's birth as reference.

    This puts Rachel at about 30 when she comes back to our present. Given how much time she's spent out of our timeline and adventuring in space and having her body rebuilt since then, she might biologically be a bit younger and chronologically be a bit older. Why does she act younger than she is a lot of times? She's emotionally stunted due to her childhood, was plagued by false memories implanted by Amahl Farouk and Mojo and Ahab until Days of Futures Yet to Come and had been through a shit ton of trauma. Why does she act childish in Reloaded, she was mourning Jean Grey and was acting out in rebellion to Cyclops and Emma Frost.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    23 is a bit too young.

    Days of Future Past was 33 years to the future of the story at the time, and we can assume that since it's been 40 years since that story, it's been 8 years in story time going by the 5 years real time = 1 years story time. Thus, the max age she can be is 32. This is a bit too old since we know that she's five years younger than Franklin Richards was in her timeline. Now, however old Franklin was in Days of Future Present, I can't say for sure, but it seems to be about 5/6 - about the time Rachel would have been born had Kate Rasputin not diverged and changed the timelines (as noted by Professor X's deaths). In Days of Future Past, as seen in FF 226, he's about 2/3. Jean Grey said in Days of Future Present that Rachel was about her age and if we go by Marvel time, Jean wasn't dead for all that long - really just about over a year using Cable's birth as reference.

    This puts Rachel at about 30 when she comes back to our present. Given how much time she's spent out of our timeline and adventuring in space and having her body rebuilt since then, she might biologically be a bit younger and chronologically be a bit older. Why does she act younger than she is a lot of times? She's emotionally stunted due to her childhood, was plagued by false memories implanted by Amahl Farouk and Mojo and Ahab until Days of Futures Yet to Come and had been through a shit ton of trauma. Why does she act childish in Reloaded, she was mourning Jean Grey and was acting out in rebellion to Cyclops and Emma Frost.
    I like the thought put into deciphering her age but I think the intention is for her to be in her mid twenties in the comics. I disagree that she is emotionally stunted. I think she might very well be the most well adjusted off the entire summers clan. Simply because of all the trauma she has had to endure. Which makes it so frustrating that we don't see her talking with Jean.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott402 View Post
    I like the thought put into deciphering her age but I think the intention is for her to be in her mid twenties in the comics. I disagree that she is emotionally stunted. I think she might very well be the most well adjusted off the entire summers clan. Simply because of all the trauma she has had to endure. Which makes it so frustrating that we don't see her talking with Jean.
    She's not stunted now, but during her initial time in the X-Men up until when Mojo took her, she definitely was given how she connected more with the younger mutants like Magma and such. It showed given how juvenile she acted despite her age. In Excalibur, she does start off that way but she grows out of it and she grows past her trauma. Like I've said, her acting childish in Reloaded can simply be put to her not having a real childhood and acting out against Cyclops while grieving for her mother. She's had incredible character development and you're right, she has definitely adjusted to her situation well.

  10. #55
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    Jean didn't know Rachel's real age when they met so she just assumed they were the same age. But Rachel is just a couple of years older than Kitty and younger than Rogue who was 18 at that time. Rogue kept calling her kiddo and Storm used to call her "child."

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerridwen View Post
    Jean didn't know Rachel's real age when they met so she just assumed they were the same age. But Rachel is just a couple of years older than Kitty and younger than Rogue who was 18 at that time. Rogue kept calling her kiddo and Storm used to call her "child."
    Rachel should be younger than or same as kitty since she basically skipped a few years ahead

  12. #57
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    23 is a bit too young.

    Days of Future Past was 33 years to the future of the story at the time, and we can assume that since it's been 40 years since that story, it's been 8 years in story time going by the 5 years real time = 1 years story time. Thus, the max age she can be is 32. This is a bit too old since we know that she's five years younger than Franklin Richards was in her timeline. Now, however old Franklin was in Days of Future Present, I can't say for sure, but it seems to be about 5/6 - about the time Rachel would have been born had Kate Rasputin not diverged and changed the timelines (as noted by Professor X's deaths). In Days of Future Past, as seen in FF 226, he's about 2/3. Jean Grey said in Days of Future Present that Rachel was about her age and if we go by Marvel time, Jean wasn't dead for all that long - really just about over a year using Cable's birth as reference.

    This puts Rachel at about 30 when she comes back to our present. Given how much time she's spent out of our timeline and adventuring in space and having her body rebuilt since then, she might biologically be a bit younger and chronologically be a bit older. Why does she act younger than she is a lot of times? She's emotionally stunted due to her childhood, was plagued by false memories implanted by Amahl Farouk and Mojo and Ahab until Days of Futures Yet to Come and had been through a shit ton of trauma. Why does she act childish in Reloaded, she was mourning Jean Grey and was acting out in rebellion to Cyclops and Emma Frost.
    Her age is relative to her peers. She is older than Kitty whom should be 22 now. According to JDW, the O5 are late 20s. Based on that, Rachel has to be early to mid 20s. 23 is the youngest that fits this, but she can be 25 at the most

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slimybug View Post
    So just out of curiosity, what has happened to make people think that without it being made definitive?
    Rachel has always had a level of queerness to her. Nothing outright other than appearance and the closeness to Kitty, as she has only had male suitors and interests. But in several books that are non-canon Kitty and Rachel have been an endgame couple. So now that the doors are off the hinges in terms of sexuality and coupling in the new world of Krakoa, many expect Rachel to be dipping her toes into the lady pool. The fact that Kitty has done so already before Rachel is interesting. So we'll see, but her current writer has always read Rachel as a lesbian, and that might get reflected in this book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    23 is a bit too young.

    Days of Future Past was 33 years to the future of the story at the time, and we can assume that since it's been 40 years since that story, it's been 8 years in story time going by the 5 years real time = 1 years story time. Thus, the max age she can be is 32. This is a bit too old since we know that she's five years younger than Franklin Richards was in her timeline. Now, however old Franklin was in Days of Future Present, I can't say for sure, but it seems to be about 5/6 - about the time Rachel would have been born had Kate Rasputin not diverged and changed the timelines (as noted by Professor X's deaths). In Days of Future Past, as seen in FF 226, he's about 2/3. Jean Grey said in Days of Future Present that Rachel was about her age and if we go by Marvel time, Jean wasn't dead for all that long - really just about over a year using Cable's birth as reference.

    This puts Rachel at about 30 when she comes back to our present. Given how much time she's spent out of our timeline and adventuring in space and having her body rebuilt since then, she might biologically be a bit younger and chronologically be a bit older. Why does she act younger than she is a lot of times? She's emotionally stunted due to her childhood, was plagued by false memories implanted by Amahl Farouk and Mojo and Ahab until Days of Futures Yet to Come and had been through a shit ton of trauma. Why does she act childish in Reloaded, she was mourning Jean Grey and was acting out in rebellion to Cyclops and Emma Frost.
    Well Rachel was 16/17 max during DoFP and when she came to 616, as she was still a teenager. So if you're saying that she's aged 8 years (which I would disagree given the amount of time she was floating around in the timestream after saving Brian) that would put her at 24/25 max. She was younger than Rogue who was 18, and older than Kitty who was 14 when she first joined the X-Men. She was 18 for the formation of Excalibur. Given that the timeline diverged, we will never be able to fully answer the age difference between her and Franklin. And even though Jean said they were about the same age, Jean wasn't 30 in X-Factor. At most she was 24/25. Hank was the oldest in the O5 and he didn't turn 30 until after Uncanny X-Men 300 (although canon, JDW claims that none of the O5 are 30 which is just silly). Her rebuilt body by the PF didn't change her age, but freed her from the psychic issues and torture she endured (which of course future writers then put back on her).

    While she definitely had her mind tampered by a variety of villains, she never had her memories by any of them. Her false memories came strictly from the Phoenix Force trying to uphold Kate Pryde's wish for Rachel to have a clean slate and be rid of her memories of a dead past. She's had her mind broken only by Ahab and Mojo, and has had levels of possession and mind-control by Bogan, the Shadow King, Cassandra Nova, and Mesmero.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Her age is relative to her peers. She is older than Kitty whom should be 22 now. According to JDW, the O5 are late 20s. Based on that, Rachel has to be early to mid 20s. 23 is the youngest that fits this, but she can be 25 at the most
    This!

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    I am thinking about 27 for Rachel in 2021.

  15. #60
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