Rachel Anne Summers (Grey) 2021

[Scott402]

Hey I'm not always right, and when I'm not I totes embrace it lol. I 100% forgot Rachel made that statement to Jean at the end of Adventures of Cyclops in Phoenix. So That puts her in Ahab's care for a shoter period than I expected, but I don't think it necessarily changes my age foe her in terms of 616. She arrives in 616 at 17. By Excalibur #75 she's 20, or just shy of it. Making her a teen during the entirety of Excalibur, and she was 18 for most of it allowing her access to pubs.



Outside of Days of Future Present and the few pages of the scrapped Phoenix miniseries, they have left anything with Rachel and Franklin alone. The fact that she didn't even interact or engage with him during that awful crossover last year was an indication they are not touching that anymore. It would be interesting to see, but now given that he's not a mutant it feels moot.

With her being younger coming into the camp I think my point on malnutrition might be right but official stats are there to dispute it.

LOL I just appreciate your knowledge and ability to group all of these things together. I read them all but trying to put together the timeline and what not is sometimes beyond my capabilities. I always enjoy reading your in depth analysis of everything. Sometimes it causes me to think in other ways I hadn't before which I really appreciate.

Regarding the Franklin issue. I like the idea originally because it linked the FF and teh X-Men but it hasn't been touched on in ages and even when they had teh chance with the recent cross over they went with the more recent contact between Kitty and Franklin. Not even a mention of Rachel which makes sense to a degree because she's had no interaction with that Franklin. Along with teh recent revelation that Franklin is not a mutant. I consider that avenue closed. Which I am glad for because despite how long she has been in comics Rachel has really never had a defining relationship. Sure she has had on panel relationships with Kovus and Nightcrawler. But none that never really connected. I think it's a perfect time to explore new relationships for her.

[Drexelhand]

Outside of Days of Future Present and the few pages of the scrapped Phoenix miniseries, they have left anything with Rachel and Franklin alone. The fact that she didn't even interact or engage with him during that awful crossover last year was an indication they are not touching that anymore. It would be interesting to see, but now given that he's not a mutant it feels moot.

That's partly because how many comics have we had since Excalibur - which did reference Franklin a few times - that delved into Rachel's mind? X-Men Gold did it and Mesmero used her memories of Franklin against her. Another reason is, the Franklin Richards of the main timeline isn't her Franklin. If he ever grows up and they meet, I'd bet they might retouch it but it might not work out given that he's not the Franklin that she fell in love with and never will be. In a way, he's the Franklin that she created by changing the timeline. Or, love trumps all given that like Franklin, Rachel won't die since she's the daughter of the Phoenix. Besides, if you remember, Franklin was called the "once and future mutant" in Days of Future Present - he'll be a mutant again, I'm sure of it.

[Askani's Flame]

That's partly because how many comics have we had since Excalibur - which did reference Franklin a few times - that delved into Rachel's mind? X-Men Gold did it and Mesmero used her memories of Franklin against her. Another reason is, the Franklin Richards of the main timeline isn't her Franklin. If he ever grows up and they meet, I'd bet they might retouch it but it might not work out given that he's not the Franklin that she fell in love with and never will be. In a way, he's the Franklin that she created by changing the timeline. Or, love trumps all given that like Franklin, Rachel won't die since she's the daughter of the Phoenix. Besides, if you remember, Franklin was called the "once and future mutant" in Days of Future Present - he'll be a mutant again, I'm sure of it.

She totally knows he's never going to be her Franklin, given they interacted a lot during Days of Future present. And I don't think for one minute Franklin won't become a mutant again in the future, his writer is doing this for shock and a longer storyline.

Side note: I don't know if anyone reads AIPT X-Men Mondays, but there is currently a call for questions about Scott, Jean, and their family: https://aiptcomics.com/2021/01/27/x-men-monday-call-for-questions-cyclops-and-jean-grey/

I've already submitted a question about why Jean and Rachel aren't interacting on panel to Jordan. So feel free to submit similar questions or anything that tickles your fancy.

[Devaishwarya]

As I was discussing End of Greys over in the Jean thread...what ever became of Rachel's "Winged Phallus" back tattoo?

[Askani's Flame]

As I was discussing End of Greys over in the Jean thread...what ever became of Rachel's "Winged Phallus" back tattoo?

Good question. Gone with the wind I assume. I thought that Claremont had laid the seeds that after Rachel received the mark from Blackcloak, while she had the ability to remove it, she chose not to in order to use it against the Shi'ar for any vengeance she had. I don't remember it existing on her after she received the Phoenix Echo (and I could be wrong about that), but we haven't seen it on her since her time in space.

I'm still miffed that Rachel and Jean haven't discussed the event or Elaine's final words to Rachel yet. And even moreso that any mention of Rachel was excluded in Bendis' follow-up Trial story, granted I know it was Jean's story but you WOULD THINK that after coming back from space and hearing more she would go to the one family member alive to retell the tale.

[Devaishwarya]

Some plots are destined to be shuffled off into the void, it would seem.

[Phoenixx9]

Some plots are destined to be shuffled off into the void, it would seem.

Yes, I have always wondered why, but maybe the new writer does not agree with it or like it and decides to go their own way with a different plot and just avoid the old ones.

[Askani's Flame]

Yes, I have always wondered why, but maybe the new writer does not agree with it or like it and decides to go their own way with a different plot and just avoid the old ones.

I mean, to be fair, this is Claremont we're talking about. He already branded Rachel once with the facial tattoos. But once he got his hands on her again, she no longer had them as the Phoenix Force removed them from her. So he HAD to brand her somehow. Enter this Winged Phallus. Of course this likely disappeared once Brubaker gave her the Phoenix (who is Rachel's personal tattoo remover). But then Yost came along with the directive to lessen Rachel (given they were still formulating Jean's failed return which became Hope) so she was tripped of her Echo, her prowess, and forcibly reverted into hound tattoos and programming because......reasons. I believe his quote to me was "The Phoenix can undo what it has fixed if it so chooses"

[Devaishwarya]

Yes, I have always wondered why, but maybe the new writer does not agree with it or like it and decides to go their own way with a different plot and just avoid the old ones.

Which...eventhough it leaves "gaps"...is probably for the best.
Incoming Writers have to decide what's relevant and what's not to their stories. And especially with a franchise and characters with so much convoluted history...I don't blame them.

[Phoenixx9]

I mean, to be fair, this is Claremont we're talking about. He already branded Rachel once with the facial tattoos. But once he got his hands on her again, she no longer had them as the Phoenix Force removed them from her. So he HAD to brand her somehow. Enter this Winged Phallus. Of course this likely disappeared once Brubaker gave her the Phoenix (who is Rachel's personal tattoo remover). But then Yost came along with the directive to lessen Rachel (given they were still formulating Jean's failed return which became Hope) so she was tripped of her Echo, her prowess, and forcibly reverted into hound tattoos and programming because......reasons. I believe his quote to me was "The Phoenix can undo what it has fixed if it so chooses"

Ah. But didn't Rachel state that she could not remove the tattoos even with the Phoenix Force? That they were somehow bonded to her by the Shi'ar? Or am I mis-remembering this?

[Devaishwarya]

I mean, to be fair, this is Claremont we're talking about. He already branded Rachel once with the facial tattoos. But once he got his hands on her again, she no longer had them as the Phoenix Force removed them from her. So he HAD to brand her somehow. Enter this Winged Phallus. Of course this likely disappeared once Brubaker gave her the Phoenix (who is Rachel's personal tattoo remover). But then Yost came along with the directive to lessen Rachel (given they were still formulating Jean's failed return which became Hope) so she was tripped of her Echo, her prowess, and forcibly reverted into hound tattoos and programming because......reasons. I believe his quote to me was "The Phoenix can undo what it has fixed if it so chooses"

There you go. That actually works for me.
It really wasn't one of Claremont's best and glowing efforts to begin with so...if it's relegated to a far distant though sometimes painful memory...so be it.

[Phoenixx9]

Which...eventhough it leaves "gaps"...is probably for the best.
Incoming Writers have to decide what's relevant and what's not to their stories. And especially with a franchise and characters with so much convoluted history...I don't blame them.

Oh yes, I agree and think this way myself. But I guess I also forget and as a fan, sometimes wonder "whatever happened with xxxxx?", lol. I do not blame them either and look forward to some new plots, villains, stories, etc.

[Askani's Flame]

Ah. But didn't Rachel state that she could not remove the tattoos even with the Phoenix Force? That they were somehow bonded to her by the Shi'ar? Or am I mis-remembering this?

That's what Rachel "said", but both Beast and Kurt surmised given Rachel's molecular control of her body via TK that she was using the tattoo to draw her enemies to her to destroy them. She didn't have access tot he Phoenix Force when this scene was written and drawn under Claremont. The tattoos disappeared once she got the Echo, so I think Brubaker used the Echo to wipe them out.

[Phoenixx9]

That's what Rachel "said", but both Beast and Kurt surmised given Rachel's molecular control of her body via TK that she was using the tattoo to draw her enemies to her to destroy them. She didn't have access tot he Phoenix Force when this scene was written and drawn under Claremont. The tattoos disappeared once she got the Echo, so I think Brubaker used the Echo to wipe them out.

Thanks. That makes sense. (I know there is little the Phoenix cannot do, if one has the will to use it.)

[From The Shadows]

When's the last time Rachel interacted with Amara?