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  1. #571
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Lois found out years ago, didn't she?

    I heard BW did pretty good in the beginning and then was hit by a steep decline in theatres due to D+

    As for FaWS, I think Sam had the right idea of not wanting to rush to fight them when they had legitimate complaints. But the villains weren't fleshed out enough
    Yeah, Lois found out years ago, but she didn't know for quite some time. I think BW started off strong, but variants (non-Loki related) have spooked audiences. I always thought Disney should have pushed it back further. I think Sam was right to hold back, but the Flag Smashers DID commit a lot of atrocities. And you're right, they weren't fleshed out enough. What's funny to me is that neither was the Winter Soldier!

  2. #572
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I think his goal next season will be to get back to 'his' TVA, and the Mobius and B-15 he knows. It's just that he (and the audience) had to be made aware that the branching timelines made it so that there were other TVAs as well, so... And he was dealing with some heavy stuff, so it was understandable to me that he wouldn't be at his most fun.
    Yeah, I'm hoping that Loki gets back to where he belongs. I don't think him going between "universes and timelines" serves him well. I was shocked by how heavy a LOKI show turned out. I mean, I don't think he should be a total goofball, but I agree with those who complained about the show not being fun. Many of the message boards I frequent BARELY talk about Loki's arc. They're almost ALL obsessing about the mechanics of time travel/multiverses. And talking about future MCU projects that could result from Loki's show. Quite frankly, I don't give a **** about that. I guess I'm mad that by Loki doing his thing now in his shows, he is just undermining "my" Loki's arc from the movies. Which was one of the best in the entire MCU.

  3. #573

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    "Exiled" was a crossover between New Mutants and Journey into Mystery. It's a fun tale with Kid Loki and New Mutants but it is rather busy. It does solve the Disir situation and Mephisto has one more reason to hate Kid Loki. So it was time well spent.

    I also bought the "Loki: Mistress of Mischief" anthology. It collected various Loki tales over the years. Its mostly from Straczynski's run and Dark Reign. It's pretty good so far. I'm doing my Loki journey in reverse.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 07-21-2021 at 05:17 PM.

  4. #574
    Spectacular Member Fanto.mx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoruno View Post
    I guess Sylvie's concept art was influenced by AoA Lady Loki:
    Attachment 111702
    Is this from the making of show you mentioned? I might have to give that a shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    "Exiled" was a crossover between New Mutants and Journey into Mystery. It's a fun tale with Kid Loki and New Mutants but it is rather busy.

    I also bought the "Loki: Mistress of Mischief" anthology. It collected various Loki tales over the years. Its mostly from Straczynski's run and Dark Reign. It's pretty good so far. I'm doing my Loki journey in reverse.
    That's awesome! What's your favorite so far?

  5. #575
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoruno View Post
    The making-of shows one of the early drafts of an episode:


    (1 - 5: Mostly Montage)

    1. Loki visiting different time periods.

    2. Doing crazy mischief aka sex.

    3. Pivots to taking power.

    4. Collecting Infinity Stones.

    5. Has the Gauntlet, takes power...more sex, big alien, etc.

    6. Alone in the throne room. He's taken power but is infected with thought that it isn't "real" because of TVA's control over free will.

    7. Return to TVA - gauntlets power down. Mobius waiting for him.

    8. Loki gives honest answers to Mobius. Mobius shows the sheer power of TVA.

    Do time travel shenaganians still sound good to you? IMHO, this would have been awful and more one-dimensional than anything that made it to the screen.
    Ugh yeah... while I am sure it probably could have been better than it sounds with some more detail and nuance, I definitely prefer what we got. While i don't think a straight up time travel thing is necessarily going to be bad, this ain't it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Yeah, I'm hoping that Loki gets back to where he belongs. I don't think him going between "universes and timelines" serves him well. I was shocked by how heavy a LOKI show turned out. I mean, I don't think he should be a total goofball, but I agree with those who complained about the show not being fun. Many of the message boards I frequent BARELY talk about Loki's arc. They're almost ALL obsessing about the mechanics of time travel/multiverses. And talking about future MCU projects that could result from Loki's show. Quite frankly, I don't give a **** about that. I guess I'm mad that by Loki doing his thing now in his shows, he is just undermining "my" Loki's arc from the movies. Which was one of the best in the entire MCU.
    I was invested in Loki's arc, and is the part i care most about. But I do still speculate about how it will tie in. The 'how does it connect' aspect is where the speculation still is, because it's still unresolved, so of course people are still going to be coming up with theories regarding what it means for the multiverse in Dr Strange, and how it connects to Wandavision, how Kang fits in and so on. And it is part of the larger MCU, and a lot of people follow that as one big story, so trying to figure out what this means is important to them. Though the actual plot was more of a character journey it did still raise a lot of questions and possibilities along the way. There's still a lot of question marks there, while the character arc is mostly resolved, for now. But that doesn't mean you can't just appreciate it for the core story alone, without worrying too much about how it connects. It's just there's not as much left to discuss there.

    As for how heavy it turned out, really not surprised. While I meant what I said about me not necessarily wanting them to adapt the comics, it also is not a surprise to me that they would take inspiration from them. And Loki in the comics for the past 10 years has been pretty heavy at times. Though they did not adapt the specifics, they did adapt the themes and the issues he was dealing with regarding fate and free will, as well as the face turn. They went about it differently, but kind of hit a lot of the same beats. Like it or not, this is where the character was headed. Loki dealing with issues of fate and being displeased with the amount of control he has over his own life, and it being implied that him being a villain was more fate at work than anything, that his cosmic role was essentially to make the heroes look good, and that without fate pushing him that way, he's actually not so bad, is an established part of the character in the comics. Though there, it all comes down to actual fate and meta stuff with stories, rather than multiverse meddling. But though it's gotten pretty dark at times in the comics, he also manages to have fun at other times, he bounces around from funny to heavy a lot. No reason the show can't do that as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    "Exiled" was a crossover between New Mutants and Journey into Mystery. It's a fun tale with Kid Loki and New Mutants but it is rather busy. It does solve the Disir situation and Mephisto has one more reason to hate Kid Loki. So it was time well spent.

    I also bought the "Loki: Mistress of Mischief" anthology. It collected various Loki tales over the years. Its mostly from Straczynski's run and Dark Reign. It's pretty good so far. I'm doing my Loki journey in reverse.
    Nice! The Exiled arc was a lot of fun. I loved JIM, but it sucks how much it got tied up with crossovers and events, which makes it hard to follow. Kinda amazing Gillen pulled off a cohesive story working under those conditions, really.
    Last edited by Raye; 07-21-2021 at 06:38 PM.

  6. #576
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Ugh yeah... while I am sure it probably could have been better than it sounds with some more detail and nuance, I definitely prefer what we got. While i don't think a straight up time travel thing is necessarily going to be bad, this ain't it.



    I was invested in Loki's arc, and is the part i care most about. But I do still speculate about how it will tie in. The 'how does it connect' aspect is where the speculation still is, because it's still unresolved, so of course people are still going to be coming up with theories regarding what it means for the multiverse in Dr Strange, and how it connects to Wandavision, how Kang fits in and so on. And it is part of the larger MCU, and a lot of people follow that as one big story, so trying to figure out what this means is important to them. Though the actual plot was more of a character journey it did still raise a lot of questions and possibilities along the way. There's still a lot of question marks there, while the character arc is mostly resolved, for now. But that doesn't mean you can't just appreciate it for the core story alone, without worrying too much about how it connects. It's just there's not as much left to discuss there.

    As for how heavy it turned out, really not surprised. While I meant what I said about me not necessarily wanting them to adapt the comics, it also is not a surprise to me that they would take inspiration from them. And Loki in the comics for the past 10 years has been pretty heavy at times. Though they did not adapt the specifics, they did adapt the themes and the issues he was dealing with regarding fate and free will, as well as the face turn. They went about it differently, but kind of hit a lot of the same beats. Like it or not, this is where the character was headed. Loki dealing with issues of fate and being displeased with the amount of control he has over his own life, and it being implied that him being a villain was more fate at work than anything, that his cosmic role was essentially to make the heroes look good, and that without fate pushing him that way, he's actually not so bad, is an established part of the character in the comics. Though there, it all comes down to actual fate and meta stuff with stories, rather than multiverse meddling. But though it's gotten pretty dark at times in the comics, he also manages to have fun at other times, he bounces around from funny to heavy a lot. No reason the show can't do that as well.



    Nice! The Exiled arc was a lot of fun. I loved JIM, but it sucks how much it got tied up with crossovers and events, which makes it hard to follow. Kinda amazing Gillen pulled off a cohesive story working under those conditions, really.
    Yeah, it's fun to speculate and mull over the future of the MCU after this show. But yeah, it's getting pretty exhausting not getting any definitive conclusions to these stories. I thought the movies did a far better job with this. I feel like we're watching a superhero version of General Hospital. I guess my views are more in line with this writer from Forbes Magazine:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidip...h=9bef50c1f420

  7. #577

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanto.mx View Post
    Is this from the making of show you mentioned? I might have to give that a shot.



    That's awesome! What's your favorite so far?
    The time travel issue- thor (2007-2011) #12.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 07-21-2021 at 08:45 PM.

  8. #578

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Ugh yeah... while I am sure it probably could have been better than it sounds with some more detail and nuance, I definitely prefer what we got. While i don't think a straight up time travel thing is necessarily going to be bad, this ain't it.



    I was invested in Loki's arc, and is the part i care most about. But I do still speculate about how it will tie in. The 'how does it connect' aspect is where the speculation still is, because it's still unresolved, so of course people are still going to be coming up with theories regarding what it means for the multiverse in Dr Strange, and how it connects to Wandavision, how Kang fits in and so on. And it is part of the larger MCU, and a lot of people follow that as one big story, so trying to figure out what this means is important to them. Though the actual plot was more of a character journey it did still raise a lot of questions and possibilities along the way. There's still a lot of question marks there, while the character arc is mostly resolved, for now. But that doesn't mean you can't just appreciate it for the core story alone, without worrying too much about how it connects. It's just there's not as much left to discuss there.

    As for how heavy it turned out, really not surprised. While I meant what I said about me not necessarily wanting them to adapt the comics, it also is not a surprise to me that they would take inspiration from them. And Loki in the comics for the past 10 years has been pretty heavy at times. Though they did not adapt the specifics, they did adapt the themes and the issues he was dealing with regarding fate and free will, as well as the face turn. They went about it differently, but kind of hit a lot of the same beats. Like it or not, this is where the character was headed. Loki dealing with issues of fate and being displeased with the amount of control he has over his own life, and it being implied that him being a villain was more fate at work than anything, that his cosmic role was essentially to make the heroes look good, and that without fate pushing him that way, he's actually not so bad, is an established part of the character in the comics. Though there, it all comes down to actual fate and meta stuff with stories, rather than multiverse meddling. But though it's gotten pretty dark at times in the comics, he also manages to have fun at other times, he bounces around from funny to heavy a lot. No reason the show can't do that as well.



    Nice! The Exiled arc was a lot of fun. I loved JIM, but it sucks how much it got tied up with crossovers and events, which makes it hard to follow. Kinda amazing Gillen pulled off a cohesive story working under those conditions, really.
    It's more how they did crossovers back in the day. "Everything Burns" and "Exiled" were a mix of JiM issues and other series. These would've been a pain to follow if I was just picking up singles.

    Granted I think Ewing could've made it work. Agent of Asgard's tie in to AXIS was easier to follow. It didn't even kill the momentum.

  9. #579
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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  10. #580
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    ^That's a great shot. I've got to say that Grant manages to sell that slightly cheap looking costume with aplomb, and the "Vote Loki" outfit might be my favourite look for Hiddleston's Loki.

  11. #581
    Spectacular Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    Grant was awesome! BTW, the concept art had most of these Loki variants with Hiddleston's face.

  12. #582
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    Seeing Grant in what looks to be a classic Loki Halloween costume was hilarious.

  13. #583
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Hah! great shot

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    It's more how they did crossovers back in the day. "Everything Burns" and "Exiled" were a mix of JiM issues and other series. These would've been a pain to follow if I was just picking up singles.

    Granted I think Ewing could've made it work. Agent of Asgard's tie in to AXIS was easier to follow. It didn't even kill the momentum.
    Yeah, I definitely prefer how they do events now (even tho i think they overdo them) where it is essentially a miniseries, with other non-essential tie-in minis. Guest appearances, great, fine, but it was always just annoying to me when you were following a book, then, SURPRISE! crossover, so now you have to pick up extra issues of another book you may not give a damn about (and still won't give a damn about once the story is over) to get the complete story...

    But speaking of guest appearances, solicits are out: https://www.gamesradar.com/marvel-co...solicitations/
    Loki is not on the cover of Thor, but he IS on the cover for Ms Marvel.... but I have no idea what's going on, and the solicit doesn't help much.



    MS. MARVEL: BEYOND THE LIMIT #2 (OF 5)
    SAMIRA AHMED (W) • ANDRÉS GENOLET (A) • Cover by MASHAL AHMED
    Variant cover by Betsy Cola
    Elephants and illusions and doppelgangers, oh my!
    Ms. Marvel punches her way out of the Bollywood bubble she landed in when she got home from Chicago. But things are not exactly normal, and she still has no idea what happened – or if it could happen again. What's worse, it seems like she has a copycat lurking around Jersey City, and whoever they are, they're ruining her good name. They're escalating from snack thievery to scuffles with civilians, and wonky powers or no, Ms. Marvel has to find them. Fast.

    So why is he riding an elephant and all dressed in Indian clothes? I presume it has something to do with the 'Bollywood bubble' mentioned, but I dunno, guess we'll see what's up there!

    As for Thor, Loki is not shown or mentioned, but Throg is getting a rather unexpected new role

    THOR #18
    DONNY CATES (W) • Pasqual Ferry (A)
    Cover by OLIVIER COIPEL
    VARIANT COVER BY NIC KLEIN
    MARVEL MASTERPIECES VARIANT COVER BY JOE JUSKO
    MEET ASGARD'S NEW MASTER OF SPIES – THROG!
    After the events of "Revelations," Thor has a top secret mission that only one trusted ally can carry out: Throg, the Frog of Thunder! Guest artist Pasqual Ferry makes a return trip to Asgard for this unique tale of otherworldly espionage, one that will have a profound impact on the future of the Marvel Universe!

    So, what is he being tasked with uncovering, and related to Loki, why did Thor go to him rather than Loki, who you would think would be well suited to spy ****? is it something to do with Loki that Throg is investigating, maybe?

    *edit (waaaaaaay later) It dawned on my why Throg. Mjolnir's gone missing, and if Thor giving it up voluntarily means he can no longer simply recall it... Then a fragment of Mjolnir may be able to act as a sort of tracking device. Throg's hammer is a tiny piece of Mjolnir. That's why only he can do it, Throg is the only one in possession of a fragment of Mjolnir. As for the 'spy' bit Thor may want him to quietly watch whoever has the hammer, *cough*Loki*cough* at least for a while. He's a frog. take off the li'l red cape and helmet, he can fade into the background pretty easily.

    Also, you know what bugs me about the solicits? how Thor is all over the place with Mjolnir. I get that it sometimes takes a while for other books to catch up on things, but it just feels like this story in Thor is being ignored elsewhere, which is kind of worrying. Especially hard to make line up is the Death of Dr Strange tie-in, because Strange participated in the resolution of the Blake arc, and Thor gave up the hammer very shortly afterward, considering it happened right after the celebratory dinner. I dunno, it's just annoying.
    Last edited by Raye; 07-22-2021 at 07:15 PM.

  14. #584
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    One bright spot for me regarding Loki's series is that it played my all-time favorite Brenda Lee song If You Love Me (Really Love Me):



    So beautiful!

  15. #585
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    So yeah, I would rather have Hiddleston's Loki meeting the Wright Brothers, Nicola Tesla and Charlie Chaplin in some wild and zany time travel adventures. Having him meet a dozen versions of HIMSELF is boring to me. No actors and actresses can have that kind of range to make each "variant" distinct. It's not possible.
    Disagree, that's very, very possible to achieve.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

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