Loki Appreciation 2021

[Raye]

Merch! so much merch: https://www.marvel.com/articles/gear...loki-episode-5 so many cute things. Love the Pops, and love the GatorLoki pin. hope that is gonna be at the Disney Store. Still want a plush GatorLoki tho.


also, hehehee:



And Loki makes an appearance or two in the What If trailer:



though not a ton of clues about what his specific story is about, maybe just.... if he was king, but i feel like there needs to be more of a hook than that. Possibly tied to the Party Thor one?

and more thoughts.

I was looking through the solicits/covers for the next few issues: https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/comic/6428119/thor-17 and given the preview above, and I'm kinda thinking Loki will be tagging along with Thor and maybe that is why Thor fights the Avengers? Like Loki's like 'I'm coming with you.' and they go to Avengers Mountain and the Avengers are displeased with Loki's presence, so... things go poorly. Thor, being Thor, responds with violence, defending Loki. If we are going with the idea that the new people in the roles handle situations differently than their predecessors, while still filling the same part in the story, it would make sense to have Loki then diffuse the situation with talking and/or magic. It's just, looking at the covers, Loki is with Thor on the cover for issue 16, where Thor is fighting Odin, but he does not have Mjolnir with him. So seems to me, he goes to the Avengers, leaves Mjolnir with them, then goes to see Odin at that space bar Jane found him at, hence the aliens Loki is playing cards with. then the final cover is a bit more symbolic, and takes place after they get back home and split up. But that kinda only makes sense if Loki was just tagging along as Thor went places, and that would include Avengers Mountain. And if he was there, then he knows exactly where to find Mjolnir, to go steal it in issue 17.

[juan678]

art by dvglzv

[juan678]

[Yoruno]

Wow! He lifted it without a second thought! Thor, though... "Don't tell anyone". I bet it implied not only that he coudn't lift it, but that Loki lifted it!
Sorry, I will insist that the guys in the bunker were all Lokis. Look at them fight, they use the green magic. And you saw all the Peter Pan references, of course? With President Loki as Hook?

[Raye]

Oh Loki definitely lifted it. And this is his third time in this run. Now, the enchantment is still broken, I get that. But it's how it's being framed in the story here, and the past foreshadowing, that's got me excited. The way I see it, it's not about worthiness right now, for either of them. It's about stepping into a new role. Worthiness enchantments can be worked out later. But I don't think Loki lifting it is the part Thor wants kept secret. The part Thor wants kept secret is that he was unable to lift it for a bit there, that he got pinned, and Loki saw and had to help him up. I'd have to go back and check to be sure, but I think that others are perfectly well aware that anyone can come along and pick it up, this part has been seen far and wide, even on Midgard. But only Loki, and maybe Sif, knows about Thor struggling to lift it. Because it has only gotten hard for him to lift in Loki's presence, or at least heavier to the point where it is a struggle. I think like i said, though anyone can lift it, I think Mjolnir wants to go with Loki, specifically. More accurately, i think it wants to go with the new holder of Thor's old role. And that it wanted to go to Loki before he gave his old role to Blake is kinda confirmation in my mind that Loki's been the new 'champion' of Asgard since the beginning of Cates run, I think since he killed Laufey. It's just that Thor is being stubborn about giving that role to anyone else. Thor's insecure about his new position, is afraid he doesn't have anything to offer besides being a 'warrior' in the terminology used in the book, (ie, his old role) and as a result doesn't want to let go of that role, because it is comforting and familiar to him. He is scared of losing that aspect of himself, and opening a new chapter in his life, but doesn't want to admit it, so he's clinging to his old role, and with it the hammer. So my guess is, I think the enchantment is less 'broken', and more in a period of transition. It knows that Thor is now in the 'king' role, and it's not supposed to be with the king, but it hasn't quite resolved what the new 'worthy' is, and it may be that only Thor can decide that, by placing a new enchantment on the hammer. But it does know that it's supposed to go with the new 'champion' figure and not the 'king' and is kinda trying to force the issue, but particularly when Loki is nearby. I know a lot of readers will think Loki's doing that intentionally, for some nefarious purpose, but I think that's what that scene in issue 4 was meant to address. That was the first time Loki learned that the enchantment was broken, but Thor had struggled to lift it while talking to Loki BEFORE that, in issue 1. So we can be sure Loki wasn't intentionally causing it to be heavier in issue 1.

oh and those covers are pretty cool!

[Raye]

[Fanto.mx]

Oh Loki definitely lifted it. And this is his third time in this run. Now, the enchantment is still broken, I get that. But it's how it's being framed in the story here, and the past foreshadowing, that's got me excited. The way I see it, it's not about worthiness right now, for either of them. It's about stepping into a new role. Worthiness enchantments can be worked out later. But I don't think Loki lifting it is the part Thor wants kept secret. The part Thor wants kept secret is that he was unable to lift it for a bit there, that he got pinned, and Loki saw and had to help him up. I'd have to go back and check to be sure, but I think that others are perfectly well aware that anyone can come along and pick it up, this part has been seen far and wide, even on Midgard. But only Loki, and maybe Sif, knows about Thor struggling to lift it. Because it has only gotten hard for him to lift in Loki's presence, or at least heavier to the point where it is a struggle. I think like i said, though anyone can lift it, I think Mjolnir wants to go with Loki, specifically. More accurately, i think it wants to go with the new holder of Thor's old role. And that it wanted to go to Loki before he gave his old role to Blake is kinda confirmation in my mind that Loki's been the new 'champion' of Asgard since the beginning of Cates run, I think since he killed Laufey. It's just that Thor is being stubborn about giving that role to anyone else. Thor's insecure about his new position, is afraid he doesn't have anything to offer besides being a 'warrior' in the terminology used in the book, (ie, his old role) and as a result doesn't want to let go of that role, because it is comforting and familiar to him. He is scared of losing that aspect of himself, and opening a new chapter in his life, but doesn't want to admit it, so he's clinging to his old role, and with it the hammer. So my guess is, I think the enchantment is less 'broken', and more in a period of transition. It knows that Thor is now in the 'king' role, and it's not supposed to be with the king, but it hasn't quite resolved what the new 'worthy' is, and it may be that only Thor can decide that, by placing a new enchantment on the hammer. But it does know that it's supposed to go with the new 'champion' figure and not the 'king' and is kinda trying to force the issue, but particularly when Loki is nearby. I know a lot of readers will think Loki's doing that intentionally, for some nefarious purpose, but I think that's what that scene in issue 4 was meant to address. That was the first time Loki learned that the enchantment was broken, but Thor had struggled to lift it while talking to Loki BEFORE that, in issue 1. So we can be sure Loki wasn't intentionally causing it to be heavier in issue 1.

oh and those covers are pretty cool!

I really like the idea that Mjolnir is kind of playing "preferred parent" with Loki, like does what Thor asks of it...but if Loki's around, just stubbornly refuses to do anything but what Loki wants. I suspect that when we see what happens between those preview pages, that we might know for sure if this is the case. If Thor can carry it and walk away with it because Loki more or less gives his blessing, that would be confirmation.

I also wonder if there isn't another step away from "warrior" that Thor still needs to take. He keeps referring to himself as a king, but he's also supposed to be the All-Father, right? There's a big difference between ruling autocrat and responsible for basically the whole universe. And I wonder if the Galactus incident isn't tangled up in all of this. Marvel has well-established that there must always be a Galactus, that he's a sort of universal truth. Killing him should throw things out of balance...which sounds like the responsibility of the All-Father.

[Raye]

Yeah.... that's true, Loki just handed Mjolnir back to Thor, and he went from not being able to lift it all, to being able to lift it (though with a bit of a struggle still, 2 handed, and there are shake-lines) so the handing it to him may have been interpreted as like 'ok, you go with him right now, be a good hammer.' and i mean the hammer is sentient, so it is possible it is making these kinds of decisions. I also am giving some second thought to that scene in issue 1, where the hammer stopped in midair. When those pages were first released with no dialogue, we had a discussion here on whether it was Thor or the hammer that cause it to stop. When the issue itself came out, it seemed to confirm it was Thor... but I dunno, he could have been bluffing to save face. Also, I wonder what would happen if someone besides Thor tried to lift it while Loki was near. would they find it heavy and unruly as well? We may get that answer with the Avengers, because i do think Loki will likely tag along with Thor this arc.

And yeah, I think Thor hasn't done the 'sacrifice to gain wisdom' bit yet, I am guessing that will be his next big quest after this upcoming arc. Like he did kinda go through the motions in WotR, i guess, but... I think he needs something more substantial. especially since his sacrifice has been undone now, with Galactus powering him up. And I do think killing Galactus like that was a big fuckup that will bit him in the ass later, for sure.

So I went through Cates Thor so far, didn't read super close just kinda skimmed, but i wanted to make sure who knows what about the hammer acting weird.

- Besides Thor, the one who knows most is definitely Loki. He is the only one who knows both that the enchantment is allowing anyone to pick it up, and that Thor is finding it heavy to the point that he is unable to lift it at times. But it's possible Sif knows all this too, since she can see everything, but we don't know that for sure. She could fall anywhere from this place down.

- Bill knows most of this, but he was only told by Thor that the hammer was feeling heavier, he hasn't witnessed it, and I don't think he realizes just how heavy Thor is sometimes finding it.

- We know that most Asgardians, plus Dr Strange, saw Blake lifting it, so all of Asgard knows that the enchantment is allowing just anyone to pick it up. But since it was Blake, they may figure there is some special exception there due to his connection with Thor....

- We also know that Tony Stark and that mechanic dude know that anyone can lift it, but they seem to be the only Midgardians. I had thought more people saw, but Tony pretty quickly hid it from view, and then Thor swore him to secrecy. So while i think people know something odd happened there, only Tony and that mechanic knows that anyone can lift the hammer.

That's it, that's everyone that knows, as far as I can tell. And yeah, it has only been shown on panel to be heavy or act strangely in those two scenes with Loki.

so I think Tony being the one Avenger that knows is probably significant, though it also depends on how seriously he takes his promise, and what exactly goes down next issue when Thor goes to the Avengers. It also goes a long way to explain why he is just having the Avengers watch over the hammer, rather than giving it to them to use, if he is trying to keep the 'anyone can lift it' thing quiet. But it makes sense that they made the secret bearer Tony, i think. If we assume Loki picks it up later, of all the Avengers, I think Tony best understands what it means to try and make yourself a better person, and how valuable giving someone a chance to prove themselves is. So he may be more willing to keep that secret from the others, so he would be the best person to share that little secret with Loki. Also, Tony was the one who appeared in Loki's solo, he saw Loki fight Nightmare and how he talked to that woman afterward, and he told Loki he did good. Loki has already come to Tony asking for his help to be better, and it was Tony he struck the 'you can join the Avengers if you come to me with the hammer' deal, but of course, Tony is the only one who now knows the hammer is acting strangely. So yeah, kinda feeling like Loki an Tony will have a li'l secret between them.... which could be cool, I think Tony and Loki are a good pairing to be friends.

[Fanto.mx]

2021-07-10.jpg
Richard E. Grant apparently had a lot of fun playing Classic Loki.

I just realized that Mjolnir, if it's doing what we think it might be doing, is being tricksy...which is fitting. That's a fairly short list of people who have noticed, and when you factor in that Blake easily has the excuse that he could always (sorta) lift it, the list is VERY short.

[Raye]

That costume really does need the helmet to complete the look and not look COMPLETELY ridiculous. Just, you know, mostly ridiculous.

And yeah, pretty short list! I was surprised how few knew, like i said, i had just thought more people knew on Midgard. And Strange is dying soon, so him knowing is going to be irrelevant, (who gonna take care of Bats tho? ) and getting the feeling Bill's not really going to be around? We'll see on that one. But he'll likely hang around Asgard mostly in any case, if he is back. So outside of Asgard... it's Tony and that mechanic dude. Unless they do a swerve and make him the new Thor with only that mini-arc as setup (and can't see how he would manage to steal the Mjolnir from the Avengers, so i doubt it) I doubt that mechanic guy will be back, so really just... Tony. And the more I think of it, the more i like the idea of Tony kinda being forced into a mentor role for Loki. Like, he swore to Thor he would not tell anyone, and so did Loki, (kinda, Thor cut him off before he could finish) so if Loki shows up, Mjolnir in hand, especially if it is in a very public way, Tony's put in a tough spot. He knows the enchantment's not working right, Loki knows the enchantment's not working right, but Tony can't say anything without breaking his promise to Thor. So either he breaks the promise, or it kinda becomes his responsibility to keep an eye on Loki and make sure he's not doing anything evil. And only Loki and Tony can talk to each other about the situation without spilling the beans. At least, on Midgard. But Loki and Tony are so similar, I bet they would actually end up being good friends. This could either be really good for them, or bad for them. They could either end up holding mirrors up to each other and make them aware of some of their not so great qualities, or they could feed those qualities. Hoping for the former, for both their sakes. If they brought Squirrel Girl into things, that would help.

And yes, Mjolnir is being a bit tricksy, isn't it?

[Raye]

Responding to myself cus I had a facepalm moment..... Thor is doing his sacrifice for wisdom right now. Or starting with those preview pages, anyway. He's sacrificing Mjolnir. duh. I guess my brain got stuck on the sacrifice being a physical one, like Odin's eye. But no reason it could not be an emotional/symbolic sacrifice. A sacrifice should be something important, and I think to Thor, giving up Mjolnir would be much more of a sacrifice than his arm or eye. And that could take him from simple king to All-Father. In which case the arc that follows, in addition to dealing with the new champion, which I am getting the impression will likely not be publicly revealed until issue 20, maybe an effort on Loki's part to keep the secret, will likely involve finding himself a queen. He needs to have children in order to have those granddaughters he had in the future. That future can't happen exactly as shown any more, but... i mean a queen and heir is pretty standard for a king. Especially if he's going to be the All-Father

And on the subject of mythic patterns, I realized that Loki handing Mjolnir back to Thor these 3 times so far is probably him refusing the call. (ok, one time it was taken from him by Thor) They're doing the Hero's Journey with him again. Loki's done it a few times recently, (including in the show right now!) most recently in the comics was WotR, when he got eaten by Laufey. (where the call was answered when he saved Freyja, and inside Laufey/his own mind was the 'magical world' where he faced the challenges, and Laufey served as the threshold guardian of both the entrance and exit. it was a speed run.) But while i think generally speaking, doing the monomyth too closely is kinda overrated, I think it makes sense here. Given the focus on the whole repeating narrative/mythic aspect of the role changes, doing a TEXTBOOK monomyth story, where it doesn't happen partly off-panel, like happened during WotR would make good sense. Get into it in detail, adhere to it closely. The first arc was already a dark and twisted version of the monomyth gone wrong. I suspect it went wrong because Thor answered the call intended for Loki. But in that case, we need to be on the lookout for a threshold guardian, which will lead to a 'magical world' where he will be challenged. It's looking like Tony (whose origin story, incidentally, is textbook hero's journey. Though to be fair, many superheroes origins are. but his is especially close.) may be being set up as the mentor figure that often comes into play in these, but i presume one that won't die, as they are prone to do. (Yinsen in Tony's own, for example)

*edited to add - and you know what? this should be a mystery story. A Hero's Journey Into Mystery, if you will and yes, obviously they should revive JIM to tell it.

[Raye]

So my guess is, I think the enchantment is less 'broken', and more in a period of transition. It knows that Thor is now in the 'king' role, and it's not supposed to be with the king, but it hasn't quite resolved what the new 'worthy' is, and it may be that only Thor can decide that, by placing a new enchantment on the hammer. But it does know that it's supposed to go with the new 'champion' figure and not the 'king' and is kinda trying to force the issue, but particularly when Loki is nearby. I know a lot of readers will think Loki's doing that intentionally, for some nefarious purpose, but I think that's what that scene in issue 4 was meant to address. That was the first time Loki learned that the enchantment was broken, but Thor had struggled to lift it while talking to Loki BEFORE that, in issue 1. So we can be sure Loki wasn't intentionally causing it to be heavier in issue 1.

.... Nailed it. https://imgur.com/a/Y8q7raM <-- Spoilers-ish

Like, I was pretty confident I was on the right track, but... man, I was even closer than I expected. Laid out the roles stuff and everything. I was wrong about a couple little things, like Tony spilled the beans to the rest of the Avengers, so the secrecy angle goes out the window, but that's minor stuff. Now to see if I am right about Loki. I did a massive speculation post on my tumblr (I wanted to lay it all out in one place so i could show why i thought what I did in detail, and point to it and go 'told you so' if i was right) and as I was gathering images, was reminded of a little tease from earlier, 'the lightning that walks' so Kinda thinking we may see that happen before Loki, maybe Mjolinir acting autonomously for a while before it finds it's new wielder, or something? Though clearly Mjolnir is not making the best decisions on it's own, i think it needs a wielder. Also, the 'spear tip' wording there makes me wonder if it may transform into aspear? though I do think a sword or daggers are more Loki's style.

Just a little detail that I liked though, very first page so not really a spoiler:



I note that the only one at the table looking at Thor is Loki, which is kinda nice. I think Loki really is worried about Thor.

So, the show! Very talky episode, but definitely set up some cool things for both the future movies and season 2.

spoilers:

So, Sylvie and Loki go through the castle, and find He Who Remains. Kang. Immortus. whatever. and Jonathan Majors is a total ham in the role, and it's kinda great. On the subject of the Hero's Journey talk in the psots above, they dropped a couple blatant lampshades that the Hero's Journey is what they were doing this season. I mean, I had caught it before, but good to know it was deliberate. (a lot of writers do it subconsciously) Loki and Sylvie are tempted to get what they want, (which is a part of the monomyth) in exchange for letting him go. This shifts to them getting control of the TVA. He tries to convince them that it's existence is necessary, that someone has to control fate, to prevent chaos an another war, because all his variants will end up fighting each other if more timelines are permitted to exist. Loki and Sylvie have a difference of opinion. Loki thinks it is worth at least considering, fate of the universe on the line and all, he wants to weight the options more fully at the very least. But Sylvie is consumed by her desire for revenge, and she still has trust issues. They fight. then they kiss (not too thrilled about this, as i did not like that pairing) and then she boots him through a time door to the TVA, and kills Kang. Speaking of the TVA, back at the TVA, Mobius had a confrontation with Renslayer, where they try to has hash things out, but she seems to think that even though it was all based on a lie, that it had to all be created for a good reason, and she.... leaves. we never find out where/when to. I presume this will be addressed in either upcoming movies or the second season. then Mobius and B-15 watch the timeline fracture and get all chaotic. then, Loki goes in search of Mobius to tell him what happened, and he finds him in the library, but Mobius doesn't recognize him, and Loki looks over and the statues of the Time Keepers have been replaced by statues of Kang, so... the TVA is different now, are there now variants of the TVA itself? is HIS Mobius still out there? I am no sure. But I hope so! I would not want to see that friendship end

end of spoilers

[Riimi]

I've been skeptical about your theories, Raye, mostly because I didn't want to get my hopes up. But yeah it really looks like you're on the right track.

I like that Loki followed Thor to make sure he's okay, it's a small detail but shows his character growth.

I really want a Loki - Tony prank war. Please.

I guess my only concern is that someone else is going to get the role, but I can't really think of who would be a better fit.

[Raye]

I mean there is always the possibility i am wrong about Loki. if I am, i can't deny that I will be disappointed, since i have been nursing this particular theory since WotR. But I do try to keep that in mind, that it is just speculation. Though speculation I think is backed up by the story, if you read between the lines (and it is increasingly becoming less subtext and more just text, but text some people still seem to have trouble grasping.) But having it confirmed this issue i was right so far is a sign I am on the right track at least. I was picking up on actual clues, not just figments of my imagination, and the whole 'roles' and the narrative cycle really is how Asgard functions.

Though it did depend on Cates picking up some threads Aaron had set up, so it was always a risk he'd just ignore it. He went his own direction in terms of who specifically filled the 'Loki' role (Aaron had set up Tyr, in Valkyrie, but clearly Cates wanted Blake instead.) So it may be possible as well that he doesn't take the setup Aaron did for Loki in both Thor and Avengers... but so far, he has mostly been building on what Aaron set up, aside from Tyr, so.... I mean i think he's doing his own thing, probably not exactly what Aaron would have done, but he is using the framework he left behind. And there has only really been 2 choices that have been teased in story for Thor's old role, Loki and Bill, and then Bill ran off to space on a quest of his own, so I think Bill was a red herring. And Loki is simply too important a character to leave without a role, and there's just nothing left except the Champion role. I mean they could maybe finish the turnover in the Warriors 3, have Fandral and Hogun go off to do something else and bring in Loki and whoever, but... other than that, nothing of note remains. There are a few other characters i think may be a good fit, like maybe Angela, but she hasn't appeared yet at all... I have a hard time thinking he'd do it with no setup at all.

I know a lot of people don't think Loki is a good fit, but I'm looking at it as the story is being set back to the beginning, so they will need to grow into the role and become better over time, not just be perfect fit right from the start. In which case, I think Loki is a good fit.

And yes, Loki and Tony prank war and/or friendship, I think they'd be a lot of fun together. We got a taste in the brief solo recently, but I want more. Especially if you also throw in Squirrel Girl from time to time.

And yeah, I did really like that Loki showed concern for Thor, it was sweet.

[Riimi]

Thinking about it, Cates did go out of his way to make sure Loki was also looking for a role by giving Loki's old role to Blake. That doesn't make sense unless there's a new role left for Loki to fill.