Loki Appreciation 2021

[juan678]

Loki Omnibus Vol.1 cover by Mark Brooks

[Karabaja]

Could it be that Loki-determining-status- things are being held back in comics so they can align with the onset of his tv show?
The movies have influenced a lot of Loki's general image. We saw him having his redemption arc in the movies once. I doubt he'll be a moustache-twirling villain in the series, either, even if he might start off as one. He'll probably start out as a reluctant pawn for the good guys before he has a change of heart. It's going to be another redemtion story for him, but this time longer and hopefully more nuanced. So, could it be that he is kept this shady in comics so he wouldn't "spoil" what's to come in the series?
(Yes, I know there's technically nothing to spoil. We've already seen him having heel-face turn. But the series might want to attract new audience, and despite every old story being one mouse click away, it's still a story from another time and younger kids might not feel it as they would a story which is hot right NOW. )

[Raye]

Interesting cover, but I hope it does not reflect the direction they are going with him. I mean the costume... a lot of liberties, but whatever, i just mean the whole villain vibe. But it's for the omnibus, which has both old and new stuff, so maybe they are kinda trying to merge the two characterizations.

And I dunno, normally I could see them trying to capitalize on the show's audience, and I could see them maybe holding off on a big development until interest in him was at it's highest, maybe. But on the other hand, they've done jack all with Wanda, Vision, Bucky or Falcon for their shows. Like, some guest appearances, but nothing major. There was that Darkhold thing that got cancelled due to Covid, but it got shelved until sometime later this year, rather than getting it out to coincide with Wandavision. So I just don't know, they seem to have no real interest in capitalizing on the shows.

Like on the one hand, I don't want actual synergy, where they try and make the comics match the MCU, and I like that Loki has mostly escaped movie synergy, aside from some vague appearance stuff. I mean, he was in the body of a child in the comics, while 3 movies where he was a character were released. They just didn't seem to care that Loki in the comics was totally different than he was in the movies for quite a while there. And really hope they don't change their tactic with Loki at this late stage. I like MCU Loki, but I would not want them to alter what we have in the comics to be more like him just for synergy's sake, especially after so long of them just doing their own thing with him for the most part.

But I also find it really, really weird how the comics have just flat out ignored the Disney+ shows in terms of trying to at least have something involving the characters on the shelves in a prominent way when the shows are airing. Why is there not a Falcon and Winter Soldier mini, or something, right now? Do a different plot, sure, but just, something with the characters in a prominent role, you know? But there's nothing. So while i still have some hope they may just be holding off on something cool for Loki for his show to hit, how they've handled the others is not encouraging. They may consider Double Trouble to be their tie-in, and to be fair, it would be more than the others got.

[Yoruno]

All comic book sections in my local shops now feature everything Vision and Bucky-related, but it's old stuff, of course. And we also had Avengers II and Days of Future Past on TV when WV was shown, which is funny, because we still have no Disney+ channel.
MCU has taken a route that is very different from the comics, indeed, but we see that the show is going to borrow something from the books: there are Old Loki, Kid Loki, Vote Loki etc. We don't know if all these are going to be just a nod or rather full-fledged elements in the series. I suspect that MCU is planning to introduce the young generation of heroes and, to fit this, Hiddleston's Loki will be forced to regenerate (Doctor Who vibes) into Kid Loki. To avoid a negative future development, to get rid of Old Loki, or, frankly speaking, to introduce a younger face. This would more or less bring the movies and the comics together.
What I really wouldn’t like to see is another Prelude like the ones they did for Thor films. IMHO, they are awful and fit neither canon fully.

[Raye]

Yeah, i hear they are selling lots of copies of like Vision, House of M, Falcap stuff, Brubaker's Winter Soldier stuff etc. Just nothing new, it's very odd. I know the movies didn't bring in a ton of readers, but the tie-in stuff still managed to sell decently, and raise profiles of some more obscure characters, (see: Guardians of the Galaxy) even if it was mostly to existing fans. And yeah those preludes looked like trash, I never even bothered with them. No Disney+ in Russia yet? huh. I knew not in China because they have.... a complicated relationship with Western media, but i had assumed Russia had it by now. Hopefully you get it soon, cus the shows are pretty cool. I am in Canada so I also get like Deadpool, Logan, and some Hulu stuff with my Disney+ subscription, (also a lot of other general 'mature' movies and shows) and as far as I am aware, that's true for all non-US countries, because Hulu is USA only, so they stuck all that stuff on Disney+ for non-American countries. So at least when you get it, it will be like Disney++ compared to the US. Still not sure if stuff like MODOK will appear right away or down the line, though. Guess I'll find out in May!

As for Kid Loki, they are clearly building towards something with Young Avengers. So, in Wandavision, you probably saw, they introduced Billy and Tommy... and then un-introduced them, but they'll be back, probably in Dr Strange 2, which will also apparently have America Chavez. And Cassie Lang is in the Ant-Man movies, and Kate Bishop is coming up in the Hawkeye series, and just last week, we saw Eli Bradly introduced. so.... I mean. the pieces are coming together, there woill almost certainly be a Young Avengers something in the future, whether it is a Disney+ series, or a movie. So it definitely would not surprise me to see a multiversal Kid Loki appear during Loki's show, even though Kid Loki was a later addition... but so was America chavez. I know a lot of people really like Hiddleston, but he can't continue to play the role forever, so this could be a way to recast the role. But it would be hard to pull off without Thor, and Hemsworth also can't continue to play that role forever so.... I dunno. if they age a Kid Loki up to young adult, you know who i would like to see them cast? Timothée Chalamet. Just saying.

So, as I noted on my tumblr, Beta Ray Bill came out today, and it had a couple pages that gave off some STRONG Loki vibes:





and I could not help but think a terrible thought... what if Bill is the new God of Lies that was teased? I mean read that, and imagine old-school Loki in his place, would it seem at all out of place? It really highlights how this warrior culture can feel oppressive and exclusionary to anyone who can not, or is not willing to, fill that sort of hero/warrior ideal. And of course Thor is, as he has always been, completely clueless about his privileged position, with how effortlessly he fits that mold and reaps the rewards from it. It's true that he can not help who he is, but he CAN control how he uses that position, and in this case, and for many years with Loki, he's not doing that very well; he doesn't seem to get how much damage this sort of cultural reverence for strong, dominant, warrior hero types does to those who have no chance of living up to that. And for someone like Bill, who DID have that at one point, but then Thor took it away from him by smashing Stormbreaker, it must sting extra hard, because he's experienced that, and now he feels emasculated and lesser than he was. And if it is the case that Loki ends up in Thor's old place... oh man, double hit, because by doing that, it's basically saying that society is changing to no longer value those traits as highly. But Bill has spent all this time constructing his entire identity around chasing this alpha male warrior ideal, and now that doesn't even matter any more? Like on the one hand, he should maybe feel glad about that, that he no longer has to chase impossible ideals to have self worth. But after spending your life constructing an identity around a set of ideals that you think will bring you respect, glory, status, to suddenly have those ideals not matter anymore, it could make that identity you constructed feel meaningless, and he may not even know himself beyond those ideals.

My hope for Bill as a character s that he does learn that he can have worth without chasing that identity, that he can have worth just being himself... but from a story perspective, I can see how this could fit in as the new God of Lies, if he, like Loki did long ago, lets that resentment about not being able to achieve those ideals eat away at him. And from Thor's perspective, i could see how Bill turning heel could lead to some good drama and story beats. It could also help humanize Loki, if someone like Bill could be corrupted by these toxic cultural ideals, the same way Loki was, long ago. As mentioned, what Bill said there is very similar to things Loki has said. But Loki was introduced AS a villain, so any time his motivations were brought up, it often felt more like an excuse, rather than really make him sympathetic. But if a character like Bill, who people already like and generally cheer for, falls to the same pressures, then people are more likely to sympathize with him, and since it is the same thing that led to Loki lashing out, (and then snowballed, over many many years) then it helps show Loki in a new light. The audience gets that 'aw, no..... don't do that....' reaction you see with characters that are doing the wrong thing, but you totally get WHY. It also makes how Thor treated Loki all those years, and how he will presumably treat Bill, with hope that he can see the light, make more sense, and not seem as gullible and naiive as he coudl sometimes come across. Tho, conversely, if Bill does pull through this, then it does point to a flaw in Loki's character.

[Karabaja]

It's not just the destruction of the Stormbreaker. He claims to "always" had been second to Thor, in his shadow. The loss of the Stormbreaker was a last straw, but unless he's just throwing a tantrum here and spewing the most hurtful things he can think of, he had been feeling like a **** compared to Thor for a long time.

[Yoruno]

Oh my, Thor is going from bad to worse. I wonder what the writers have for him.
What Bill says sounds absolutely Loki, yet I wouldn’t call it the God of Lies position. I'd say it's the same starting point for both Loki and Bill, but while it made Loki the God of Lies, Bill will show how the same route will bring him to a different destination. Though I suppose that's what you meant, filling the same slot yet playing it differently.
We do watch the Disney+ shows here... illegaly. I know it's a bad thing, but we heavily depend on the political situation. So I know about Billy and Tommy and I guess they'll make their second appearance later, possibly in Strange2. The age of the presumable Young Avengers is inconsistent though: Kate Bishop is a bit older, Chavez is younger, Speed and Wiccan are way too young, and there's Kid Loki in the middle. Will they make a team or continue with solo films? Will Marvel keep it closer to the comics? BTW, I have no idea what some of the Young Avengers are doing in the books right now. The last time I saw Billy Kaplan was in My Drag Brunch With Loki.

[Raye]

Karabaja - Yeah, that's true... I'm by no means an expert on Beta Ray Bill, I haven't read everything he's been in, but he has always seemed fairly confident, cocky even, in the things I have seen. Including in Cates' Guardians of the Galaxy, where he was cocky as all hell, and he was the one who prevented Hela from resurrecting Thanos, punted them into a black hole, which I consider a pretty big deal. (and this event will likely play into Thor later) So if this is something he's always felt, he's hid it well, until now. I think another component that he's not saying out loud is that Thor killed Galactus. HE wanted to do that, because Galactus destroyed his people.

Yoruno - Pretty sure Thor is in for some kind of a fall, or at least a lesson learned. I know he means well, but the things he's been doing have had some very bad consequences. I don't think they can just let it all slide, especially since it's not one isolated thing, it's one thing after another, even if some of it is accidental. I mean, besides Bill's hammer, he's participated in the destruction of several planets, which is a pretty big one, and probably warrants a reckoning all on it's own, and then freed Donald Blake, who went on to strand all of Asgard in another dimension, and kill some ex Thors, tried to kill others... Sure, he didn't know Blake had gone evil on him, but it still resulted in some bad consequences. And he killed Galactus, which I mean, you could argue is not a bad thing, sure, but the specific circumstances were murky at the very least. I expect Loki to do some questionable things with unintended bad outcomes, but for Thor, it's something that needs to be addressed, I think.

And yeah, I mean, it was just a stray thought, I still think Tyr is likely, or maybe someone else entirely. We just know it's no longer Loki, since it said NEW God of Lies. But no matter who it is, they, just like the others, would be back at the beginning, so we'd see the fall probably starting small, and then building over time. From a character perspective, I think Bill is cool, and I am not really excited to see him (or another character) turn heel, really, but I recognize that it has to happen to someone, and it being him would certainly be a gut punch to Thor.

And yeah there is a bit of an age gap with the MCU young Avengers, it's possible that when Billy and Tommy get brought back they will be aged to be more consistent with the others. and Kate was always a little older, so if they could get it so they were all a year or two behind her, it could work. and Kid Loki, can be made to be any age. as long as he's in a sort of range of like... 12 to 16ish? But rumor is, a kid named Jack Veal is Kid Loki: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm8302722/ and I have seen End of the Fucking World, which he was in, and it was really good. I am having trouble finding out how old he is, his birth year does not seem to be listed anywhere, but looking at him, he seems about consistent with the ages of most of the others, and he does look the part, aside from having brown rather than black hair. (but hair dye would fix that)


In the comics, Billy and Teddy got married and are currently off in space, last i saw. Noh-Varr is with the Guardians of the Galaxy last i saw. I haven't seen her recently, but presume Kate is still in California. America Chavez has a new book, so we'll see what she's up to there, though I have only seen some scans of some pages from the first issue, where they seem to have fleshed out her backstory. Speed and Prodigy are kind of a thing right now over in X-Factor, so they are on Krakoa. And I presume Cassie is still in Florida with her mom. So they are kind of spread out right now, I am not anticipating a comics reunion any time soon, given how they all seem to be in different parts of the country, and in Noh-Varr, Billy and Teddy's case, different part of the galaxy... which I guess applies to Loki too, but he can be anywhere he likes at a moment's notice, really. I'd like to see Loki interact with the ones he knows some more. Kate could be fun.

[Yoruno]

May I ask a retrospective question? As long as I remembered Brunch With Loki... he was actually there to ask for forgiveness and say goodbye, and he appeared for the same reason in Squirrel Girl. But do we have any details on what actually happened to him? While he was digested by Laufey, he had a vision of himself becoming the Necrogod and said he was willing to die to avoid this fate. That's where I'm lost. Some comics say he didn't die. Others say he died and was reborn. Yet he didn't change, nor did he avoid his Necrogod future. What exactly am I missing here?

[Raye]

There was the Christmas Carol-esque Hero's Journey (seriously, it is quick, but from being eaten to busting out, it covers nearly all the beats. He did a speed run in there.) issue, and then he was busting out of Laufey, we never actually saw HOW he did that, how he survived. However, if you piece together some other details, you can take a pretty good guess at some of what happened, but it has not been confirmed. My take is that he did die, and in doing so he earned a ticket to Valhalla, but then the Valkyries up and died, so there was no one left to guide him there, so he was stuck. So after his trip down memory lane, he forced himself awake, to discover he was dead but also unable to move on. A horrifying prospect, for sure. So he was stuck like that, until Laufey swallowed the Casket of Ancient Winters and Heimdall's sword, at which point he magicked himself back together again, somehow, and cut his way free. I think it's possible that he touched Heimdall's sword, which allowed him to see/hear what was going on outside, and that Laufey was about to destroy everything, and only he could stop him, so that prompted him to dig deep, maybe draw on the power of the Casket, to do the magic necessary to pull himself back together and cut his way out of Laufey. I am hoping the Valkyries mini answers this question.

I do think, as I mentioned before, that the Necrogod future is impossible now, because too much has changed, with the beginning of Cates' run. So while that may have been his fate in the moment, it isn't anymore.

[Yoruno]

Thank you for your reply, it's an intriguing take. Though I highly doubt they'll address it in Valkyries after ignoring it even in his own solo series.

[Raye]

I dunno, while i don't think it's a sure thing, it has a few things going for it that Loki's solo didn't. It's co-written by Jason Aaron, so he'd know exactly what was intended there, while Kibblesmith may not have. And it involves the Valkyries, who are probably the only ones who could answer that question. Loki himself may not know why he could not move on, all he really knows is what we know. That he died, or at least should have died, but was unable to move on for some reason, then magicked himself back together. He'd know more about how he did the magicking back together part, because that was something he actually did, and we never saw that, but he wouldn't know any more about why he was stuck there in the first place. He probably could put the pieces together, and come to a hypothesis, same as us, but wouldn't know for sure. But a Valkyrie might. While Jane was not yet a valkyrie at the time, she may be able to see something with that sight she has, or she could talk to Brunnhilde or one of the other Valkyries from that time. No one else would be able to answer a damn thing about that though, they're the only ones who could.

[Yoruno]

I have a feeling that Loki is now performing a role which is pretty close to that in his original myths: a sort of a jester exposing other characters to unpleasant truths and urging them to re-evaluate themselves. This happened in Doctor Strange, in Avengers (although I still find this one confusing), I guess the same thing will happen in Mighty Valkyries and probably even in Thor. He recently called himself God of Myth, which I also find interesting.

[juan678]

[Raye]

Niiice! Seems funny, I like the dialogue, and can see the Rick and Morty leaking through a bit. (show runner was a writer on Rick and Morty) But I think the gag in the beginning, that stack of paper ought to be MUCH larger. Loki both LOVES to talk, and he's hundreds of years old. Still cute gag tho. Some intriguing details scattered throughout. Loki has a sword on his back in that one scene in the purple..... cathedral looking thing.... and it is in a proper scabbard, so it must become a significant weapon for him despite being denied a weapon earlier. But I wonder if that is important, swords seem a popular weapon for several characters. And that one scene with the feamale character (still not convinced that is Lady Loki like everyone insists, i think they'd have given her a black wig if that was the case) where she is sitting while watching things go to hell around her, she is now joined by Loki, just sitting across from her, is the scene i noted the most, that I wonder what is up there.

but yeah, looks good.

I have a feeling that Loki is now performing a role which is pretty close to that in his original myths: a sort of a jester exposing other characters to unpleasant truths and urging them to re-evaluate themselves. This happened in Doctor Strange, in Avengers (although I still find this one confusing), I guess the same thing will happen in Mighty Valkyries and probably even in Thor. He recently called himself God of Myth, which I also find interesting.

Yeah, he is much closer to the myths now, though he has been for a while. But I dunno if it is prompting the characters to re-evaluate themselves, so much as it is causing the readers to re-evaluate the characters a bit. I just say that because like, in the Dr Strange example, as soon as Strange learned that Loki had tricked him, he instantly disregarded anything Loki had to say, or things he had learned, because he considered Loki untrustworthy. (Though Loki was proven correct later, when all his predictions came true.) Just tossed out anything he learned form the situation as a result. but I think it still served to show some of Strange's flaws to the readers, though. So I think his reputation is working against him there.