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  1. #151
    Amazing Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    Isn't art supervised by the writers? Because it's the first time I hear about a possible discrepancy. In AoA Al Ewing discussed the art with Lee Garbett (I guess everyone has seen the protopanel where Old Loki slips across the page to infest Thor's mind) . I thought it was the same in all collaborations?
    IDK, I start to get the feeling that Cates enjoys Thor the way he is now (although to me he's too assertive and aggressive) and he might be writing Loki in the same vein. Like gods who are above anything human. Or - a big OR we are right in our anticipations, and this path leads Thor to self-destruction, but then we have to see if Loki follows him.

  2. #152
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    i mean, there is a script that the artist is following, but if it's not super specific about each and every expression, there will be some interpretation by the artist. Some take more liberties than others. I was at a panel once, and Bill Willingham was telling a story about how the artist just threw in whole new panels he had never included in the script, just because he thought it looked nice, and he just had to work with it. And some artist collaborations are closer than others, too. Donny Cates is good friends with his collaborator on Venom, Ryan Stegman, but I don't know if that is the case with Klein. And all this can change the intent of the scene, it does happen. This happened with Hank Pym. He was labeled an abuser because the artist drew what the writer intended to be like, a light slap done by accident, as a violent and powerful and very intentional slap. https://screenrant.com/avengers-marv...slap-accident/

    This is very minor compared to that, and if there was a disconnect, it probably just was not considered worth the time to fix it, because it is minor. they are under deadlines and they can't be going around nitpicking every panel if the book is to be printed on time.

    And I still think Cates is setting Thor up for a lesson, it's just got to build some first.

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    So, I read Valkyries, as far as the Loki stuff goes, it's not really a lot that we haven't been able to gather from previews because it is largely setup. Jane hears about some beast stalking Midgard, and also some high caliber gunshot victims which are apparently related, and goes to a bar to learn more, where Loki approaches her in disguise and kinda sorta hits on her. (meanwhile, in Hel, Hela gets word of the wolf escaping, and sends a hunter after it. I presume Kraven. which probably explains the high caliber gunshot wounds Jane heard about) then she catches on it's him, and they go outside where she tells him to drop the act, and he does. She sees he's hurt, wolf attacks, and she flies him to the top of a building. Jane asks why he's not fighting the wolf, Loki says that it can not be killed, that will only piss it off. He says the wolf is his grandchildren, Mánagarmr, who are two souls in one body (they are from myth, but some details have been changed. in myth, he devours the moon during Ragnarok) He says the only way to stop it is to capture it, and he gives her Gleipnir, the chain that bound Fenris. Jane fights the wolf, as Loki teleports away, or something, and as he does so he says he's sorry to Jane, for all the times he's put her in danger. After he leaves, the wolf just stops, so i dunno if it only has power, or the aggressive aspect is in charge, only in Loki's presence or something? and it takes human form, wearing a... uh.... interesting outfit. And that's it for that particular subplot. So that's it for Loki's panel time, but then we cut to Karnilla in Hel, where the 3 babies who were 'born' on the first page (by 'born' i mean magically transported out of their apparently perfectly ordinary Midgardian mother's womb to Hel, to be cared for by Karnilla. So Karnilla is not their mother but it's still her caring for 3 baby girls, so I still think they are the new Norns. She' worried Hela will find them soon, now that she's back from her time in a black hole. (disappointingly just handwaved away in a caption) But interstingly as far as Loki is concerned, a caption mentions that she's upset with Loki because he should have been back by now. So Loki is working with Karnilla, and presumably knows about the little Norns. Which is possibly relevant to this bit of dialogue from earlier in the issue:



    So this seems to be him once again fighting against fate, so his working with Karnilla regarding the Norn kiddos is probably related to him trying to break free of his old role, once again. And again, I am frustrated by this because they keep haivng hm DO that and then just.... doing it again. over and over.

    But overall, not bad, and though Loki may be up to something, he doesn't seem malevolent here. He apologized to Jane (not a very big apology, but still) and is apparently working with Karnilla so.... but the dialogue above seems to indicate he may intend harm to the new Norns, but if that was the case you'd think he'd have done something earlier, considering he's apparently working with Karnilla. Which would be bad, obviously, so i hope it doesn't go there.

    Anyway, I got into making Resin jewelry pendants the past couple weeks, and I made some with Loki's colours:



    the circle ones use a special colour shifting mica powder that shifts between gold and green, in the photos, you can see more of the gold. But they are actually both, depending on the angle and light. I'm kinda new to this so they're kinda just... messing around and experimenting
    Last edited by Raye; 04-21-2021 at 09:07 AM.

  4. #154
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    Raye, those are amazing!

  5. #155
    Amazing Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    Your pendants are beautiful, and Loki motif is instantly recognisable!
    As for the first issue... I guess Marvel totally ditched the Valkyrie plot with Tyr and started anew. It is surprising to see Loki on the (presumably) good side from the very beginning, and I liked the art.

  6. #156
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Thank you! i'm actually really surprised how nice they came out, i only got the resin, like, 2 weeks ago. There is this other type with custom wire bezels that produced some spectacular results https://rayegunn.tumblr.com/post/648...bout-the-resin but i didn't do any with Loki's colours there (tho, one is green and brown) and after I am done with the buttons I am making for my mom, I will do some more of those, and can go green and gold again for at least one of them. Might even get some gold bezel wire for it. I only have plain aluminum so far, don't generally like using the gold coloured stuff because it is just plated, and if you damage the surface it looks really bad because the underlying aluminum colour shows through and looks nasty. but... might be worth it. I did get some gold bails for the round ones yesterday so they are actually looking like jewelry now.

    As for Valkyrie, yeah the art was real nice! It is still possible Loki's playing both sides or something, but if he is helping Karnilla, that's probably a good thing. The one thing that bothered me is his not helping vs the wolf. Loke ok, sure, attacking would only make it mad, fine. but what about defending, a forcefield or something?

  7. #157
    Extraordinary Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    So, I read Valkyries, as far as the Loki stuff goes, it's not really a lot that we haven't been able to gather from previews because it is largely setup. Jane hears about some beast stalking Midgard, and also some high caliber gunshot victims which are apparently related, and goes to a bar to learn more, where Loki approaches her in disguise and kinda sorta hits on her. (meanwhile, in Hel, Hela gets word of the wolf escaping, and sends a hunter after it. I presume Kraven. which probably explains the high caliber gunshot wounds Jane heard about) then she catches on it's him, and they go outside where she tells him to drop the act, and he does. She sees he's hurt, wolf attacks, and she flies him to the top of a building. Jane asks why he's not fighting the wolf, Loki says that it can not be killed, that will only piss it off. He says the wolf is his grandchildren, Mánagarmr, who are two souls in one body (they are from myth, but some details have been changed. in myth, he devours the moon during Ragnarok) He says the only way to stop it is to capture it, and he gives her Gleipnir, the chain that bound Fenris. Jane fights the wolf, as Loki teleports away, or something, and as he does so he says he's sorry to Jane, for all the times he's put her in danger. After he leaves, the wolf just stops, so i dunno if it only has power, or the aggressive aspect is in charge, only in Loki's presence or something? and it takes human form, wearing a... uh.... interesting outfit. And that's it for that particular subplot. So that's it for Loki's panel time, but then we cut to Karnilla in Hel, where the 3 babies who were 'born' on the first page (by 'born' i mean magically transported out of their apparently perfectly ordinary Midgardian mother's womb to Hel, to be cared for by Karnilla. So Karnilla is not their mother but it's still her caring for 3 baby girls, so I still think they are the new Norns. She' worried Hela will find them soon, now that she's back from her time in a black hole. (disappointingly just handwaved away in a caption) But interstingly as far as Loki is concerned, a caption mentions that she's upset with Loki because he should have been back by now. So Loki is working with Karnilla, and presumably knows about the little Norns. Which is possibly relevant to this bit of dialogue from earlier in the issue:



    So this seems to be him once again fighting against fate, so his working with Karnilla regarding the Norn kiddos is probably related to him trying to break free of his old role, once again. And again, I am frustrated by this because they keep haivng hm DO that and then just.... doing it again. over and over.

    But overall, not bad, and though Loki may be up to something, he doesn't seem malevolent here. He apologized to Jane (not a very big apology, but still) and is apparently working with Karnilla so.... but the dialogue above seems to indicate he may intend harm to the new Norns, but if that was the case you'd think he'd have done something earlier, considering he's apparently working with Karnilla. Which would be bad, obviously, so i hope it doesn't go there.

    Anyway, I got into making Resin jewelry pendants the past couple weeks, and I made some with Loki's colours:



    the circle ones use a special colour shifting mica powder that shifts between gold and green, in the photos, you can see more of the gold. But they are actually both, depending on the angle and light. I'm kinda new to this so they're kinda just... messing around and experimenting
    Wow, those pendants are really nice! Good job.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]


    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."

  8. #158
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    Hello fellow posters, I just wanted to add my little 2c regarding Loki in the comics and why it almost seems like they can never pin his new status quo down. While I'm not reading comics at the moment, I like to keep track of what's going on through the dedication of folks like @Raye, thank you for holding down the fort because right now for people like me who can't afford to buy three or five comics a month just to get a fleeting cameo from one of my favourite characters (if not the favourite), it's much appreciated.

    Now back to the point I was trying to make, after reading one of your detailed comments on his most recent appearances in the books, I noted your frustration about Loki and why it almost seems like he keeps circling the same mountain of trying to escape his fate. Whenever it seems like he has, another writer pretty much repeats the process, albeit in a different way. I think Marvel is treading waters and maybe being deliberate about this, not because I think they intend to make him a villain again (they probably keep this card in the back pocket for the day they decide to play it but for now, it's not today or in the near future). For whatever reason, they've concluded that they need the character to keep striving towards something to keep him interesting and one of those way is to always have his actions be suspect, and a little self serving if not out right villainous (even if it's for the greater good). He did for decades as a villain trying to beat Thor and he's one of the most recognizable and long lasting characters that is not a hero because of that. It doesn't really matter if he ever changes his fate, it only matters that he keeps trying because that's where the story is, not in him making it to the end, like we saw in AoA. He's not the kind of character who can have "hero" branded on his forehead like Steve Rogers or Thor, because no one will ever buy it and honestly and what would be the point, if he truly gets what he wants? I look at it the same way as MCU Loki who got total ruler-ship of Asgard as fake Odin and while he enjoyed it, it wasn't great for the character because it showed how quickly stagnant the character becomes once he has the one thing he's always wanted. He gets bored and becomes boring which is what happened with King Loki before he jumped head first back into being a villain.

    I think what makes Loki interesting now is that he's the character that's been on the other side, knows the inner workings of being the absolute worst villain in a big cosmic game. While he's changed the rules for himself, switching sides, the game still continues. he can't make anyone believe he's now one of the good guys. He is navigating treacherously between the two fields because there is a genuine struggle for him to stay this new course but as long as he knows himself, what side he's on , even if his current quest is more selfish than not, I am okay with it. there' always going to be people not to sure about his change because of his very long history (MU characters as well as readers). He will show them one action at a time his true intentions and as frustrating as it is to have his journey move at an incredible slow pace (one step forward, three steps back type of thing) he's still moving forward, his own special way. If superheroes are stuck in a cycle of fighting bad guys and never enacting real change/world saved status, Loki is now locked into a cycle of trying to sustain his change and not lose it to whatever fate says he is (a villain). He will have victories as well as setbacks for as long as Marvel can keep this going.

    The only problem is that we're not seeing more of it. It is getting lost in the stories of other people like Thor and now Valkyrie. Loki needs his own book back!
    Last edited by rpmaluki; 04-24-2021 at 03:38 AM.

  9. #159
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
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    rpmaluki, I agree with every single word. I am actually fine with Loki always walking the fine line, never revealing all his cards, always having the capacity to surprise and/or shock us. I just want more of him.

  10. #160
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    But when I say I am frustrated with him never succeeding in changing his fate, that doesn't mean I want him to become an uncomplicated good guy. Just to have the fact that he's escaped his old role stick. Escaping his old role as a villain doesn't automatically mean he has to become the exact opposite of what he was, and begin acting like Cap or something, there's lots of ways to move forward from his old role besides that. He can still be sort of gray area and complicated, while still having him actually escape his old role as a villain, and actually carry forward from that. I do think 'being good' should not come easily to him, and he will probably always have complicated and unconventional approaches to things, and there will always likely be a risk of him backsliding, and I am not saying we have to eliminate that. But that doesn't mean I want the same story of him constantly explicitly trying to escape fate on repeat, he can do so much more than that. There are so many potential stories beyond that point that we will never get to see if they just keep repeating this one. All repeating the 'i have to escape fate' story does is make the past wins he's had where he supposedly escaped his fate become less impactful in hindsight, and prevents us from being able to see what he does with a changed fate.

    Yeah, characters need goals to be interesting, and I agree that's likely a factor into why they are taking this approach, but that doesn't mean they can only have one goal, forever. Once a character accomplishes a goal, they can get a new one. That's why I liked the whole 'outcasts' thing, because it gave him something to work towards in a way that 'stories' did not. I am hoping that with Cates on Thor for what I presume to be a long time, and the book is selling extremely well which may eliminate the problem Loki's solos had where the majority of Thor readers hadn't read his journey so they just did it again, and he is dealing with the roles stuff, we will actually see this stick for once, though. I just wish every writer that got their hands on him lately didn't feel obligated to tell the same damn story, because it is getting old, even if each individual story may be good on it's own.

    anyway, solicits are out, but Loki is only mentioned in Double Trouble: https://www.gamesradar.com/marvel-co...solicitations/



    THOR & LOKI: DOUBLE TROUBLE #4 (OF 4)
    MARIKO TAMAKI (W)
    GURIHIRU (A/C)
    It’s Thor vs. Loki for all the marbles! Or really, just one marble: the sphere that has the power to send Thor and Loki home! Will these two battling brothers find their way back to Asgard at last?

    But Thor's cover has him fighting Cap, which is... worrying. I mean (assuming Cap's not been Hydraized or whatever) if you end up fighting Cap, that's a good sign you done fucked up somehow. So I presume Thor's continuing his slide.

  11. #161
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    So there is a new Marvel Legends coming for Loki tying into the Disney+ show, and he has some fabulous hair: https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/di...ndavision-baf/

    and, apparently the rumor is Loki could get 3 seasons: https://insidethemagic.net/2021/04/loki-season-3-rwb1/

    Which may point to it not tying in with the larger MCU all that much, because the reason the shows released so far only got 1 season is because they were setting up events for movies (Dr Strange and Captain America. though with Falcon and Winter Soldier, i have to say it was a bit of a 'ended up back where they started' deal. so you don't have to watch the show to get that Sam became Captain America, only thing it really adds is the origin of the costume and possibly setting some things up with the Bradleys. WandaVision added much more significant developments) So if Loki gets 3 seasons, then that likely means it's not setting anything up for the movies in a significant way. But if it means we get more seasons, fair tradeoff. And I do still think it's possible some elements, like Kid Loki, could spin out of it.

  12. #162
    Amazing Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    Some rumours regarding the series.
    According to a new leak, Richard E. Grant is the Possessor (and not Old Loki as everyone was led to believe). I can't remember him in comics, but I've just read he's one of the Elders residing outside time and space, and he's in charge of information. Seeing the library in the trailer, I might speculate Marvel will merge him with one of the Librarian characters and bring Loki to the Library in Omnipotence City.
    Another thing is that Tom Hiddleston narrated new Disney+ trailers in which the topic is... stories. It might be just wishful thinking, but it seems to me he sounds more like Loki there.
    God of Stories anyone?
    https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_q...qex1ycaqqu.mp4

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoruno View Post
    Some rumours regarding the series.
    According to a new leak, Richard E. Grant is the Possessor (and not Old Loki as everyone was led to believe). I can't remember him in comics, but I've just read he's one of the Elders residing outside time and space, and he's in charge of information. Seeing the library in the trailer, I might speculate Marvel will merge him with one of the Librarian characters and bring Loki to the Library in Omnipotence City.
    Another thing is that Tom Hiddleston narrated new Disney+ trailers in which the topic is... stories. It might be just wishful thinking, but it seems to me he sounds more like Loki there.
    God of Stories anyone?
    https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_q...qex1ycaqqu.mp4
    I picked up on this when I heard saw that trailer, I don't think it's coincidence, though they may not actually use that moniker, at least for this season. They might save that for later when they play around with all his other titles just for kicks.

  14. #164
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    huh, and he seemed such a good fit for an older Loki. Like MCU specifically, he has features very similar to Hiddleston, just, you know, older. But okay. Just goes to show people shouldn't be so certain in their guesses based on photos and assumptions.

    Not saying don't speculate, or even get crazy with your speculation. I love to speculate. Just saying that I have learned that you always have to keep in mind that your speculation could be wrong in the end, and try to not frame it as an absolute certainty like some of these Youtubers and stuff do. Like comics side, i know i am like all aboard the roles train right now, and I am on the lookout for things that support that, but I do hope I make it clear that it is just where i think it could be headed, not that it absolutely IS.

    God of Stories could be interesting but considering that didn't end up going very far in the comics, and the movies don't put a lot of emphasis on titles/roles for the Asgardians in general, so i am not holding out a lot of hope. But stories have frequently been a theme in Loki's well, stories, particularly in JIM, so they could be going there, even if they don't slap that title on him.

    btw. made a new pendant in Loki's colours and it came out really nice, gold leaf suspended above a green background, here it is fresh out of the mold:




    I man, it helps that Loki's colours (and Phoenix, and Iron Fist and Rogue, and and and, to be fair) just happen to be just very visually appealing, especially if you can use metallics.

  15. #165
    Amazing Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    Nice pendants! I also like the purple one which looks like a snail.
    In Strange Academy 10 the kids will be shown around by Volstagg. No sign of Loki, he must be busy in Jotunheim. It’s still implied there's something VERY wrong with the twins mom, so now I doubt it's Amora. Some mythical creature maybe?

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