Loki Appreciation 2021

[Yoruno]

Meanwhile, in TVA tumblr the agent has found the archives, and she also identifies herself as a lady. Ta-dah.

[Raye]

Hm, yeah. could it be that Di Martino's character is this agent and she somehow gets warped by her experience? But we still need the other Loki variant that killed her Minutemen squad, but that could be Richard E Grant's character.

Like, i just think the resemblance between them, but separated by years, is too good to pass up here. We have something approaching the resemblance between Sebastian Stan and Mark Hamill. Not quite as uncanny, but close. Look at Grant and Hiddleston side by side, and you could totally buy them playing the same character at different points in time. A few differences, like Tom's nose is a bit more refined, and has straighter eyebrows, but it's about as close as you could hope to get. So Grant playing King Loki would be perfect casting, imo.

[Yoruno]

From what I get from the interviews, there's a twist in ep.4-5, which came as a surprise to Tom himself, was based on a certain event in a comic book which he hadn't read before, and he also said something like "Poor Loki, he's his worst enemy". Not sure if the latter phrase is related to the unnamed comics, because he's obviously familiar with JIM and AoA... don't know what to make of it yet.

[Raye]

Well, we know he read JIM, cus he wrote a letter to the editors gushing about it. Agent of Asgard, I think he is aware of it, but not sure if he's READ it.... But an older Loki being the big bad doesn't mean they copied AoA completely, there could be an additional twist on top of that.

[Fanto.mx]

I've been thinking about the consequences of what we've seen so far and have some interesting questions:

What we know: Time travel doesn't need to be involved for the timeline to branch.
Evidence: Being late for work can be a crime against the timeline, if it wasn't "supposed" to happen.
Interesting Question: Does this mean the timeline can branch arbitrarily, Many Worlds Hypothesis / Butterfly Effect style? If so, that means everything we saw in Endgame almost certainly went off like a bomb, rather than like the scalpel single branch we saw. There would be a huge spaghetti mess branching off basically every single thing they did in the past. Why do we not see the mess (other than storytelling reasons)? Is the TVA damn near infinite and there are a bunch of Mobius variants in other departments?

What we know: Infinity Stones don't *seem* to work in the TVA.
Evidence: Paper weights. Loki tried.
Interesting Question: In the comics, Infinity Stones just don't work *outside of their native dimension/timeline*. What if it's an illusion that Infinity Stones don't work in the TVA because they just don't work outside of their native timespace, and it's convenient to allow people to assume that it's because the TVA is super powerful and extremely in control? What if the the TVA has their own set, native to wherever/whenever the TVA is, but no one knows?

What we know: The TVA's timeline is...different.
Evidence: Mobius says so in the "elevator," but also the Time Twisters seem to send people back in time without actually sending them back in time. They get shunted to a past point, physically, but in the exact present.
Interesting Question: Is the TVA's timeline self-correcting? Is the TVA's timeline not a real timeline at all? Is it completely different from other timelines?

What we know: The Timekeepers are from the end of time. Probably.
Evidence: Miss Minutes is entirely definitely trustworthy.
Interesting Question: More interesting version of the above: What if the TVA is moving backward in time, a loop from the end of time? It would explain some of the above, and it would mean that the TVA's seeming benevolence in preventing multiversal war is actually just ensuring that the timeline that leads to them doesn't get wiped out...and also that there is *EXACTLY ONE* TVA.

What we know: There is a scanner that melts robots upon entry to the TVA. It's possible that people who are robots don't know they're robots.
Evidence: Loki hesitates in my favorite non-Casey moment in the show.
Interesting Question: Is this a Chekov's Gun? Are we going to see a Loki who *is* a robot? Is this evidence that tech works fine in the TVA but magic doesn't, so they have to completely ensure that powerful robots don't enter, thereby being the (only?) superpowered being in the TVA or is this more smoke and mirrors to make people *think* that magic doesn't work in the TVA? (See above about the TVA's infinity stones.)

[Doom'nGloom]

Man I loved the first episode of Loki and got a little theory. The series will end with Loki not burning down the TVA but becoming the head honcho there and they will no longer purge timelines but instead chronicle the multiverse and give advice to heroes at certain points while leaving the choice to them. Hence Loki becoming the "God of Stories".

What we know: The TVA's timeline is...different.
Evidence: Mobius says so in the "elevator," but also the Time Twisters seem to send people back in time without actually sending them back in time. They get shunted to a past point, physically, but in the exact present.
Interesting Question: Is the TVA's timeline self-correcting? Is the TVA's timeline not a real timeline at all? Is it completely different from other timelines?

Do we know how Time Twisters work outside of TVA?

[Raye]

I don't think we've seen the Time Twisters being used outside of the TVA, so far we've only seen the TVA operate in Mongolia when they arrested Loki and inside the TVA itself. The twisters seem to be dependent on the collar though, hence why Loki put his around the neck of B-15, so they're probably not much use outside of the TVA anyway. *edit - but the batons do work outside of the TVA, so the twisters in theory should as well, i think? It's just, you have to get a collar around the target's neck, which makes them limited in use

OK. I am gonna lay out how i think time travel is working here, and why Loki got hauled in and not the Avengers.

- The TVA has decreed that there shall be one 'Sacred Timeline' and they have worked out how they want this timeline to go.
- This is said to be at the discretion of the Time Keepers by Judge Renslayer, but in the comics, the time Keepers were created by He Who Remains, the last director of the TVA at the end of all time. I suspect this is the case with the TVA in the show as well, but it is being kept secret, and he is a sort of man behind the curtain, if he is still alive. the Time Keepers may be made up just to hide his identity, or real, don't know. I think something shady is happening there though.
- Thus, the timeline chosen is likely there to ensure He Who Remains/The Time Keepers come to be. they say it is 'sacred' but it's probably chosen for self serving interests.
- Regardless of that though, the TVA's purpose is not to prune all divergent timelines as soon as they happen, their purpose is to ensure that one particular timeline is preserved.
- So some branches, such as Cap with Peggy, could be allowed to play out, as long as they are necessary for the Sacred Timeline to happen. Cap was allowed to live his life with Peggy because he still needed to return the shield to the main timeline. As soon as he did that, my bet is the Peggy timeline was pruned.
- I think The Ancient One and the Avengers had incomplete flawed information on how time travel worked, so while they tried their best, Cap returning the Infinity Stones didn't do a damn thing to fix the timeline. I think this only created more branches, which the TVA then cleaned up in his wake, they were likely folowing along a few seconds behind him 'resetting' timelines. But they allowed this to happen because it at least got the extra Infinity Stones and dupe Mjolnir out of the main timeline without anyone becoming aware of the TVA, which needed to happen. And, again, he never got hauled in over all this because of the shield. It still needed to be returned.

As for the Infinity Stones, I don't think the same rules apply in the MCU, or Endgame would not have worked. But I do think the Infinity Stones are linked to their home timeline and have power as long as that timeline exists, even if they are not IN it at the time. If you watch the Tesseract as Hunter B-15 is bringing Loki through the door, it does continue to glow for a bit before it goes dark, i presume this is becuase the dimension hasn't finished being reset. https://imgur.com/a/VLVVWpQ Like it's only a few seconds, but that was deliberate, to have it glow and then get dim.

And yes, the TVA seems to exist outside of the usual constraints of time. in the comics, it exists in the 'Null Time Zone' and I presume something similar is happening in the show, but it may operate somewhat differently in the show, I think we need to see a bit more to say for sure....

And yeah, i bet the robot thing is a Chekov's Gun, it was a real weird detail to include otherwise.

[Raye]

oh yeah! i forgot, Marvel posted this:

[juan678]

]

[Yoruno]

Question:
There's a person claiming they've read a certain comic book which they call "pre-Thor 1“. They describe it as "Young Thor and Loki have an adventure together and argue which way is better to achieve their goal, force or magic". I said it could have been Double Trouble, but they insist it was "8 years ago, a reading recommended after watching the film".
Is it a real thing? I doubt it is.

[Raye]

The only story from a while back of them when young i can think of is Thor: Son of Asgard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor:_Son_of_Asgard but I don't recall an exchange like that in it. But if they say 'Pre-Thor 1', it may be set in the MCU, in which case, i haven't read any of those comics.

*edit - Wait, wait, i checked stuff from 2013 and this seems to be a match: https://www.marvel.com/comics/issue/...eason_one_2013 I haven't read it though.

The problem with flashback stories and Thor, is that every time someone does one, they completely ignore whatever someone else had shown when they were young, so they are reeeeeeeeeeeally inconsistent. Sometimes Thor is worthy when like a teenager, sometimes not, sometimes Loki's kinda allright and not gone bad yet, sometimes he's just awful right from the start, etc it's a crap shoot, it's hard to tell what is and isn't canon.

Also, speaking of Thor and Loki as kids, i learned why Thor was delayed today, they replaced the artist on the next issue. https://www.gamesradar.com/uk/marvel...t-thor-artist/ New artistwas the one who did that What If, where Laufey had killed Odin, so that's cool, I liked how he drew them there, even if they were younger, and Loki was in frost giant mode and all. I am not sure why, the artist they had has done plenty of work for the Big Two, so i mean he does good work and i would assume could keep a schedule. But even if he had fallen behind, or something, it would be unusual to scrap completed work. So I dunno. But That's why no new issue until July.

Came across this image i hadn't seen before:



I just kinda find it interesting because it just looks like Loki really settles in to the TVA, got files and ****. It seems a bit odd for him to take to the TVA that well, but it is just one screenshot, it certainly doesn't give the full picture.

[Yoruno]

Wow. Thanks for the news about Thor (gosh, so the new artist has to draw everything under such a pressure, I wonder what went wrong).
The comics they were looking for was Captain America and Thor: Avengers.
The "Lady" who is currently reading the TVA archives in Tumblr gave it up.
I have the feeling that A LOT of things are going to happen in the next episode, and they will introduce other Loki variants much sooner than everyone expected and then head in a different direction.

[Raye]

Yeah, very odd that they replaced him for the whole arc and, apparently, scrapped pages Vitti had already done, since it is delayed an additional month. But Bandini did post a pic of a commission where he aped Klein's style pretty closely: https://www.instagram.com/p/CEomUFWqiKE/

so maybe they just decided it would be a more seamless experience if he did all the art and there was less of a style jump? (like there was in that mini arc where Thor threw Mjolnir down to Midgard. The art was nice and all, but it wasn't that similar to Klein) Oh well, at least it will probably look good, i guess. I am just anxious to see this next arc, since it seems Thor is finally passing his role on to someone else.

oh, huh, that comic is free on Comixology https://www.comixology.com/Captain-A...al-comic/12389 I mean, doesn't seem anything special, tbh. the usual movie tie in stuff, just a one-off story. And it has Malekith and Kurse, looking like their comics selves, so it's no longer canon anyway.

I kind of wish that tumblr moved a bit faster, or at least had a bit more substance to the story posts.

And the first episode was pretty dense and efficient, it had a LOT of stuff to explain and set up with the TVA, and it also managed to give Loki an emotional arc while doing that, so if trend that continues, i can see things moving along at a pretty good clip. Time moves differently in the TVA, so i am wondering if we might see Loki spending like, a LOT of time there, while not a lot passes outside, and that's why we see him becoming more entrenched in things? Though, time travel is totally possible there, so it's not like they actually need to worry about how much time passes, and it's 2012 Loki anyway, even if time passed at the same rate in the TVA as in the MCU's main timeline, they've got like 10 years to work with. We'll see i guess!

[Fanto.mx]

Man I loved the first episode of Loki and got a little theory. The series will end with Loki not burning down the TVA but becoming the head honcho there and they will no longer purge timelines but instead chronicle the multiverse and give advice to heroes at certain points while leaving the choice to them. Hence Loki becoming the "God of Stories".



Do we know how Time Twisters work outside of TVA?

Not that we've seen yet. But I think that will be something to watch for moving forward, since if they don't use them during "field" work, that is probably significant.

I don't think we've seen the Time Twisters being used outside of the TVA, so far we've only seen the TVA operate in Mongolia when they arrested Loki and inside the TVA itself. The twisters seem to be dependent on the collar though, hence why Loki put his around the neck of B-15, so they're probably not much use outside of the TVA anyway. *edit - but the batons do work outside of the TVA, so the twisters in theory should as well, i think? It's just, you have to get a collar around the target's neck, which makes them limited in use

OK. I am gonna lay out how i think time travel is working here, and why Loki got hauled in and not the Avengers.

- The TVA has decreed that there shall be one 'Sacred Timeline' and they have worked out how they want this timeline to go.
- This is said to be at the discretion of the Time Keepers by Judge Renslayer, but in the comics, the time Keepers were created by He Who Remains, the last director of the TVA at the end of all time. I suspect this is the case with the TVA in the show as well, but it is being kept secret, and he is a sort of man behind the curtain, if he is still alive. the Time Keepers may be made up just to hide his identity, or real, don't know. I think something shady is happening there though.
- Thus, the timeline chosen is likely there to ensure He Who Remains/The Time Keepers come to be. they say it is 'sacred' but it's probably chosen for self serving interests.
- Regardless of that though, the TVA's purpose is not to prune all divergent timelines as soon as they happen, their purpose is to ensure that one particular timeline is preserved.
- So some branches, such as Cap with Peggy, could be allowed to play out, as long as they are necessary for the Sacred Timeline to happen. Cap was allowed to live his life with Peggy because he still needed to return the shield to the main timeline. As soon as he did that, my bet is the Peggy timeline was pruned.
- I think The Ancient One and the Avengers had incomplete flawed information on how time travel worked, so while they tried their best, Cap returning the Infinity Stones didn't do a damn thing to fix the timeline. I think this only created more branches, which the TVA then cleaned up in his wake, they were likely folowing along a few seconds behind him 'resetting' timelines. But they allowed this to happen because it at least got the extra Infinity Stones and dupe Mjolnir out of the main timeline without anyone becoming aware of the TVA, which needed to happen. And, again, he never got hauled in over all this because of the shield. It still needed to be returned.

As for the Infinity Stones, I don't think the same rules apply in the MCU, or Endgame would not have worked. But I do think the Infinity Stones are linked to their home timeline and have power as long as that timeline exists, even if they are not IN it at the time. If you watch the Tesseract as Hunter B-15 is bringing Loki through the door, it does continue to glow for a bit before it goes dark, i presume this is becuase the dimension hasn't finished being reset. https://imgur.com/a/VLVVWpQ Like it's only a few seconds, but that was deliberate, to have it glow and then get dim.

And yes, the TVA seems to exist outside of the usual constraints of time. in the comics, it exists in the 'Null Time Zone' and I presume something similar is happening in the show, but it may operate somewhat differently in the show, I think we need to see a bit more to say for sure....

And yeah, i bet the robot thing is a Chekov's Gun, it was a real weird detail to include otherwise.

I really love the idea that the stones don't work not because they're not in their native universe, but because their native universes no longer exist. That makes just as much or more sense, and it does allow for shenanigans in the past and future of the MCU.

Another complete tangent idea I had was...did Strange accidentally put the "dark dimension" under the authority of the TVA by introducing time? And on that note, I think you're right about some alternate dimensions/timelines not being pruned because they're necessary to the one they're actually protecting. The quantum dimension and mirror dimensions, besides the dark dimension are additional examples.

And the first episode was pretty dense and efficient, it had a LOT of stuff to explain and set up with the TVA, and it also managed to give Loki an emotional arc while doing that, so if trend that continues, i can see things moving along at a pretty good clip. Time moves differently in the TVA, so i am wondering if we might see Loki spending like, a LOT of time there, while not a lot passes outside, and that's why we see him becoming more entrenched in things? Though, time travel is totally possible there, so it's not like they actually need to worry about how much time passes, and it's 2012 Loki anyway, even if time passed at the same rate in the TVA as in the MCU's main timeline, they've got like 10 years to work with. We'll see i guess!

Totally dense and full of set-up. Some things moved very quickly, and a lot of the mysteries were just touched upon, just enough to world build. It was super efficient.

As for time passing...this is part of why I think maybe time passes backward in the TVA. If Loki died for sure for sure, which all evidence points to, that means that the variant that is apparently the current big bad has to be from somewhere between 2012 and the Snap. If Cap's returning the stones didn't prevent branching, the TVA just pruned them, then maybe the Bad Variant Loki is from one of those branches? Maybe he's even from the 1949 branch with Cap. 74 years is a long, long time to muck with things. But there's also a universe out there where Strange couldn't stop Kaecilius and Dormammu, which might be an interesting opportunity for a Loki, a universe where Mjolnir just up and disappeared in the middle of The Dark World, a universe where Ego probably succeeds in turning or killing Quill, and several universes where Loki never has the Mind Stone for a variety of reasons. Just for some examples.

[Yoruno]

Two things I thought of tonight:
1.A Nexus isn't what TVA says it is, it's not any violator of the sacred timeline, it's a person who is able to create realities, and TVA is actually after them. Loki might be the one who has this power, he will possibly make up stories/realities with Loki as a ruler, Loki as a president, etc and bring them to life.
2. TVA slogan “For all time, always" actually means (or used to mean, or will mean) "For all time, all ways".