Page 44 of 47 FirstFirst ... 344041424344454647 LastLast
Results 646 to 660 of 691
  1. #646
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post

    (also, i want Loki to show up in Death of Dr Strange, even if he's not the new Sorcerer Supreme, just to have Lee Garbett draw him again, if only for a few pages)

    I haven't had a chance to read the Death of Dr. Strange as of yet, but even when this was first announced I was hoping Loki would show up for the exact same reasons! Yes, I think it would be great if he had a little role since his previous story as the Sorcerer Supreme, but to see Lee Garbett draw him is really my main want. Lol

    I enjoyed the What If episode. I knew it wasn't going to be heavy Loki, but was happy with his appearance and portrayal. And I thought it was interesting their relationship was more like good friends and best buds than the brothers who had the sibling rivalry. And to see that Loki's influence on Thor is very important in Thor becoming the Thor we know, but completely wrecks Loki because of it.

    Still want Loki to pick up the hammer either in a What If or his own second season.
    The Doors of Wisdom are never shut! - Benjamin Franklin

  2. #647
    Spectacular Member Yoruno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Russia
    Posts
    135

    Default

    Guys, you seem to be ready to launch your own comic series I'm not so optimistic, but I hope, too, that Cates keeps Loki close to Thor for a reason and that he'll get his own arc... sooner or later. BTW, Bats has already been sorta Loki's companion in... Infinity Watch, if I remember it right? I'd say they were doing fine, but, of course, Cates gives Bats a different voice, and it would take Loki a lot of effort to melt the dog's heart.
    Last edited by Yoruno; 09-24-2021 at 10:49 AM.

  3. #648
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,988

    Default

    I mean, I know i got a bit carried away with this, the whole trying to take over part of it is kinda based on one line of dialogue in a side book that's been ignored before, and doesn't seem to fit much with how Cates is writing Loki, so it's far from guaranteed. Though, he's also used some things from Valkyrie, like Heimdall stayed dead, so...but a death is harder to ignore than a line of dialogue. so, I know that the details are a lot less likely to be correct here.

    BUT... this did make me really sure of one thing, even if the details are up in the air. If we assume the pantheon wide role switch thing is happening, and it seems to be increasingly clear I've been on the right track about the role switch this whole time, (been saying this since the end of WotR!) then we have to consider not just slotting people into new roles, and then treating it as just a title and vague set of responsibilities, but also echoing key events from the past. I mean, there's a reason they blatantly copied Loki's punishment for Blake. I don't think they have to adhere that closely for everything, and not all the roles are going to have this apply, largely because we simply don't know enough about some characters histories, or it's just not important to their role. But I do think for key characters/roles, the broad strokes should be there for major past events that helped shape who the characters became. Thor's punishment on Midgard where he was forced to view the world through mortal eyes is something WAY too important to ignore, at least as far as Marvel goes. The lessons he learned from that are just too important to him as a character to leave that out of the equation. If the roles are changing hands, then that is an aspect that's more than likely going to get repeated, even if it's tweaked and updated. Whoever gets that role will have to go through something similar, and I still think Loki is still one of the front-runners there.

    But aside from Loki, I don't think most characters are really conscious of the roles, aside from All-Father, they aren't doing any of this deliberately. We can see it because we are outside of the story, and see the bigger picture, but they can't see it, because this is just life to them. They're just reacting to events and doing what comes naturally to them. So Thor isn't going to be like,' I need to pick a successor, so I have to send them to Midgard, because that's what happened to me.' I don't think he's going to consciously pick a successor at all, or he may THINK he is, but turns out the person he chose isn't the one fate chose. So whoever is his actual replacement, is going to have to do something to warrant getting a punishment, in Thor's eyes. He needs something to motivate him to take this step, and I just don't think Loki's past is fresh enough, it's got to be something new. And as soon as he sends them to Midgard to teach them a lesson, he's chosen his successor, whether he realizes that or not. I'm just saying, I won't be too surprised if Loki misbehaves somehow, and Thor decides he needs to be taught a lesson. But in this case, Loki doing something bad will end up being good for him in the long run. Because the lesson ought to stick and have a big impact on him, like it did for Thor, and he will come out the other end better. Loki will also need a 'Jane' and it seems a logical place to add them. Hell, he'll need several of them, over the years, if this lasts. Those relationships with mortals that Thor had were part of his anchor to Midgard that kept him mindful of what mortality meant. I think Loki kinda already has one in Verity, (i don't think it necessarily has to be romantic) but, Thor has had others before Jane too, so I'm kind of expecting someone new for Loki.

    And yeah Loki, Wolverine and Bats teamed up, but after how Bats reacted to Loki in Thor, i get the feeling Cates maybe didn't read that And it was also just temporary. If Strange stays dead, at least for a while, Bats will need someone to look after him
    And Thor needs a Freyja, for that matter, so we may be getting some romance happening for both of them.
    Last edited by Raye; 09-24-2021 at 04:52 PM.

  4. #649
    Spectacular Member Fanto.mx's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    193

    Default

    New Loki pop coming, courtesy of What If...?


  5. #650
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    316

    Default

    Cute! I liked that episode.

    I meant to post this after the last comic of Thor was released, but I was lazy. Anyways, I mostly lurk, but I've been keeping up with the current discussion about Valkyrie, etc. and the possibility of Loki having a "fall" to recover from to fit the Thor mythos. While I am not opposed to such a story arc, I'm more inclined to believe that Cates is doing his own thing. Why do I say this, and what does it have to do with the last issue of Thor, in which Loki did not appear? Because of Angela.

    Last issue, Angela told Thor that she would be coming for his throne if things didn't shape up. Loki's traditional villainous schtick, and the one he alluded to in Valkyrie, is trying to take the throne. And thus my reasoning is very Doylist: having a story where one sibling tries to take the throne, and then another one does the same thing, would be too much retreading of the same plot. It would be boring, and I believe Cates is a better writer than that. If he does intend for Loki to rebel against Thor, why not use him instead of Angela?

    Now, it's possible that Cates could have Loki still "fall" in some manner, but if he does, I believe it will be something different from one of Loki's standard misdeeds.

    Further contextual evidence, though much slimmer: Last time we saw Loki interact with Thor, in the Blake arc, he was concerned for Thor and helped him up after Mjolnir misbehaved. If Loki suddenly betrayed Thor, that characterization feels off. Now, like I said, this is slim, because we don't have much to go off of due to Loki not showing up that much.

    ETA: I forgot that he had one later scene interacting with Thor. In that scene, he agrees to lie to help Thor, even though he no longer likes lying. Now, I think this further supports my point. We've seen how much Loki has done to escape that role! But it's Thor, so he helps.
    Last edited by Riimi; 10-12-2021 at 10:32 AM.

  6. #651
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,988

    Default

    those Pops are cute! Also there is a new Hot toys:

    https://gizmodo.com/loki-and-sylvie-...-th-1847856581

    Hot Toys are great but too expensive for me tho... I mean you get what you pay for, but still.

    And yeah, as I said, I know it was based on not much, and Cates has ignored Valkyrie before. But to be fair, I did write all that before the most recent Thor issue. I dunno if Angela is really filling the same role/motivations as Loki though. I am still getting more Tyr vibes from her, particularly old-school when he was used as more of an antagonist. In any case, I do not think she has the temperament to be a ruler, she may be frustrated with the job Thor is doing, but I don't think it would be better with her at the helm, so not expecting her to succeed.

    I do still think that if Loki is to fill Thor's role, and I do still think he is a front-runner there, (though to be fair so is Angela, but I still think Loki is more likely) he still needs to do *something* even if it isn't a grab for the throne. It doesn't have to be a betrayal, or anything major. I'm not saying that I think Loki wants to hurt Thor, or has evil intent. Like, Thor didn't actually do anything that bad to get his punishment from Odin, and having evil, rather than just misguided, intent would disqualify him for the role. But I still feel there needs to be a catalyst, it would feel too random for Thor to punish Loki for his past out of the blue, after they'd been on relatively good terms recntly.

    I do think Cates is going to do his own thing, but he's very clearly doing the roles thing. That last issue only reinforced that, with Freyja. It was pretty explicit that Freyja was the new god of the hunt, which was Angela's role, even if she was absent form Asgard for much of it, spent most of her time hunting in Spawn and all. And Thor of course, and Sif, and Jane, and Balder, and Blake inheriting Loki's role. Cates is not being subtle about the roles stuff at all any more, this IS the backbone of story, it's not even a debate any more, imo. It may be inherited somewhat from Aaron, but he is definitely making use of it, and even setting up role changes of his own that I don't think Aaron intended. (like how Tyr was set up to replace Loki by Aaron, but Cates went a different direction with Blake). And I do think that means certain key story beats have to happen. Cates may give them a new twist, but the general shape of the story has to repeat, at least in broad strokes. So I do think Loki has to be punished by Thor, like Odin punished Thor. It was too important a story beat for Thor for it to not happen. Maybe it won't be punishment for a power grab specifically, but I think there will be something. Maybe just Thor finding out what Loki did to Blake. That could kill 2 birds with one stone, giving Thor a reason to punish Loki, and set Blake free, so he can properly fill his role as the new God of Lies.

    In any case we are rapidly running out of roles that need filling, and I think Loki is too important a character to not get one, and he's already checking boxes for the Thor role. I still think he technically stepped into it the second he cut his way out of Laufey, it's just that no one's quite realized it yet. So I think he remains likely, regardless of how it goes down. Other options remaining are ones Loki can't fill, like the role Freyja just left vacant, or somewhat lower profile things like The Warriors 3. But... and yes this is a real shot in the dark, I am kinda getting the vibe that we might be getting an unconventional squad of heroes there next issue. Throg, Thori, and Bats. Or maybe throw in Lockjaw so it's all dogs, and Throg is more of the Sif. It's just a gut feeling, but... I dunno, kinda makes sense to me, Pet Avengers Warriors 3, it would be hilarious and fun. Could also be a fun We3 nod, kinda. But even if that doesn't happen, that's kind of what I mean, filling the roles doesn't mean you have to do the expected to hit the beats and make that echo of the past, you can still put a twist on things and have fun with it and do your own thing at the same time. It's not about replicating the past, it's about echoing it, with updates to fit a new era and keep it fresh. But to keep it as an echo there are certain things that do still have to happen, even if they happen in a different way, and I think Thor's punishment on Midgard and sorta-kinda living as a mortal for a while is one of those things.

    (sorry for late reply i got sucked into Sims, after they had a sale and then a severe bug nearly wrecked my save... yeah. just a game but I'd put a like 2 years into that save, so was trying to fix it without completely rolling it back by months. take note, make a new save point when adding new DLC. stupid buggy thing.... i made a gloriously tacky bowling alley tho, that was fun)
    Last edited by Raye; 10-14-2021 at 10:15 PM.

  7. #652
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    316

    Default

    I agree with the role transfer stuff. Everyone's getting new roles these days. And Loki has yet to get one and is missing his old one.

    I found the following preview for the next issue. https://www.cbr.com/thor-enlists-loki-search-mjolnir/

    Looks like Thor does go to Loki and Loki says no. We'll see if he sticks with it I guess, or maybe if he's lying because he's the one who stole Mjolnir.

  8. #653
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,988

    Default

    Heh yeah i saw that like an hour after i made my post, was kinda waiting to see if anyone responded before i went on a new ramble. cus I HAVE THINGS TO SAY. That actually is quite encouraging to me.

    OK. so, it's a little early to say for sure, he may get talked into it the next page or something (though I doubt it cus this is obviously Throg's issue) BUT... pretty sure what we are seeing here is Loki Refusing the Call. Which means it's finally starting, we are at step one, at last. It may seem a bit frustrating and counter intuitive, to have Thor finally doing his damn job, (as an aside i do like that Cates is underlining, in this issue and the last, in Thor's own words, that he has been behaving poorly so far. Cus some people really did not get it, and it's good to know it was deliberate on Cates' part) and delegating tasks to an agent acting in the interests of Asgard, and Loki's just like 'nope.' But Refusing the Call is the first step on most Hero's Journey stories. There are a few reasons for this, to reinforce how difficult the task is, and humanize them, as the article linked above outlines, or maybe they have to see the consequences of inaction, or have something happen that makes it personal, that spurs them into action. Think Luke Skywalker refusing Ben, and then his aunt and uncle are burned alive by Stormtroopers, which covers all the bases. Humanizes him, eliminates his ties, shows the stakes of the Empire's control, and adds a personal investment. Or Spider-Man refusing to stop the thief who then goes on to kill Uncle Ben. So yeah, this is a bit frustrating, but also necessary. It may also result in some tragic consequences from his inaction, though. The refusal doesn't always have a tragic outcome, but it is fairly common, it's kind of a coin flip if this will result in tragedy or not. I hate to think this, but..... Throg may be the new Balder, as a result of the refusal. It's another one of those story beats that's too big to omit, and it's another role that remains unfilled. It is of course a role no one would want, because it is basically a death sentence, but it's too important to leave out of the story.

    But yeah, though I think in general following the Monomyth is not strictly necessary, and can sometimes be restrictive if you try. (tho it can also work quite well, if the story is suited to it. Lots of books and movies do still use it to good effect. Disney's super big on it, Frozen 1 and 2 are both TEXTBOOK, but especially 2, step aside Star Wars, you could teach a class on it with Frozen 2 alone. Just saying, i don't think it's necessary to tell a good story, in general) But I think that in this particular case, because we are dealing with mythic figures and the shaping of a new mythology, that it would make good sense to follow it quite closely. Especially considering how the Black Winter arc went. (it was the Hero's Journey gone horribly wrong, because Thor answered the call when he should not have) Which means the designated hero has to refuse the call at first, and ideally, that refusal should have consequences. And I suspect that's what we are seeing here. He'll then get spurred into action after events make it clear that he can not refuse, and then, you know, threshold guardian, blah blah. While it makes sense to have the call happen here, I still think the bulk of this would make sense in a relaunched Journey Into Mystery.

    And yeah, Loki might be refusing because he's the one who took it. Though in that case, you'd think it may benefit him to take the task of 'finding' it and then using that to misdirect everyone. But on the other hand, why take Mjolnir if you have no intention of using it? It's not something that's going to stay secret for long, no matter who took it or why, because sooner or later they're going to use it, it's not useful unless it is used, and it will be obvious when it is. Now, if it was Loki, it's not that hard for him to change his appearance, but still. But also, we do still have that 'lightning that walks' tease from earlier, and the most recent solicit seems to reinforce that, that no one took it at all, Mjolnir is acting autonomously. And acting very, very badly. If that's the case, it may be a case that Mjolnir has to be 'tamed' once again by the new Champion. We do know already that someone in issue 20 will hold it, on the final page. It's just a question of who, and if that is a good or bad thing. If Loki refused the call to go find it, and it ended up in someone bad's hands, and it hurt or killed someone.... there's your motivation for him to step up.

    Second thing, I can't decide if Thor is telling the truth or not when he says Loki is the only one he can trust with this. He is either lying to try and convince him to go along with it, or he really does think that, despite everything Loki has ever done, which would be kind of sweet. And I imagine Loki would be equally unsure if Thor really trusts him or not. I think Loki knows damn well he should not be considered trustworthy, due to like, everything. That may be where his worthiness question is rooted. The worthiness thing with Thor came with doubts right? He never really just assumed he was good enough, he always felt he had to try to be good enough, and had doubts of whether he could be. His was more rooted in just general doubts, but Loki's could be more specifically rooted in issues of trust, him wondering if he should be trusted, and trying to be trustworthy. I bet Loki's next dialogue will be something to that effect. Saying he thinks Thor is lying about trusting him, or asking why he thinks that, when other options like Balder, Jane, the Warriors 3, the Avengers, etc exist for this mission. I think Thor may be a bit ashamed to admit that leaving the hammer on Midgard ended up backfiring, and keep how badly it was misbehaving on the down low, which plays into it. Loki already knew it was behaving weird, so in that sense, he can be trusted because Thor doesn't have to reveal as much new stuff to him as he would with some others, since he already knows. But he was blathering on to Jane about it just a couple issues ago, he says here that Sif's looked for it, so... some people do know besides Loki. But he still may be trying to keep the number of people who know as small as possible.
    Last edited by Raye; 10-15-2021 at 01:04 PM.

  9. #654
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    316

    Default

    I don't have too much to say because I think you're probably right. Imo, there's no real need to include Loki here if he's not in the issue unless it's setting something else up involving him later; a single line could have covered his refusal when Thor goes to get help from Throg. I'm not sure if Throg is doomed, but I am willing to bet he fails -- I think we're definitely going to see Thanos with Mjolnir. I think that's kind of inevitable. Now, I don't really expect Thor to die, but I think we need to get to that point. I mostly say Throg might not be doomed because his death wouldn't serve the same role as Uncle Ben's. Thor cares about Throg, not Loki. On the other hand, I wouldn't bet on his survival, either.

    My guess right now is that Thor remakes Mjolnir's enchantment during his battle with Thanos, perhaps after Loki steps in to buy some time. But this is pretty much just speculation.

    I think Thor does trust Loki. He may be exaggerating the extent of that trust, but it looks like Loki is the first person Thor asks to handle this rather sensitive task. Even before Throg. This is both sweet and explains why Thor should never be in charge of vetting people, ever. Though I admit I'm biased towards this take because I love Thor and Loki's relationship.

  10. #655
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,988

    Default

    Yeah, that's true, this is at minimum 3 pages of Loki and Thor, probably more, when it could have been covered much more quickly, if it wasn't actually important. He could have just said to Throg 'I asked Loki (and whoever else) and they said no' or something like that, kind of like how Sif was mentioned here. Instead we have Thor trying to convince him, and Loki giving reasons why he doesn't want to, and stuff. It probably does mean it's important. I think, even if he does get convinced on the next page (but again, i doubt it, otherwise there would be no need to go to Throg) this would still count as a refusal of the call, (and, technically, they don't even HAVE to refuse, it's just common, particularly in older stories and myth) but I do suspect it will be more of a The Call Knows Where You Live situation. Not that I think he's particularly close to Throg, but if he could see that just agreeing to help Thor in the first place could have prevented something bad from happening.... maybe he'd rethink things.

    Thanos, I am a bit torn on, i know he's been resurrected in Eternals, but I'm not sure if he's in place yet to b the big bad in Thor yet, I think he's still kind of wonky right? That struck me more as a future that needs to be prevented, considering that he had killed and zombiefied a lot of major characters, Marvel is not about to wipe out Iron Man, Cap, Ms Marvel, etc in one fell swoop in a Thor story. So I'm pretty confident the events the Black Winter showed Thor won't ACTUALLY come to pass, it will be averted before it can happen. Just a question of how soon before that it gets averted, it could still involve a fight with Thanos, where they stop him in the early stages. But I do think, assuming we're on the right track here, Loki has to have a major part in stopping it. And yeah, I think Mjolnir needs a new enchantment (or be destroyed) to fully prevent that future. if Thanos can not lift it, bad future averted.

    Yeah, I want Thor and Loki to be friends but... Thor is not the best judge of character. He does trust too easily.

    oh, and yeah, Loki's already done the Hero's Journey. a few times actually, (though a couple of them were as Kid Loki) but, particularly in something like comics, which are forever ongoing, it is a cyclic thing that kinda happens over and over. so not a big deal, he can do it again. But there is usually one that's deemed the most important, the origin story, usually. But in this case it would be more of the story that cements the face turn. And I think that calls for some serious focus. The last time he did it was in War of the Realms, when he got eaten my Laufey. But parts of it happened off-panel, and it was very quick, even though technically it DID hit all the major beats, in the right order, it was even more on the nose than most, he was LITERALLY eaten and died, when usually those are more symbolic, it was just really fast. I would like to see it done in a more drawn out way, with a lot more focus, which is why I am hoping for a new solo, or JIM relaunch. Because if it happens in Thor, we're likely to run into the same problems we've already seen, where, because his name isn't on the cover, it's not given the focus it deserves. It's understandable, because it does make sense that Thor be the focus of the book, but frustrating because I want to see this given focus. So yeah, I hope they do an anniversary launch in 2022 of JIM. The timing does seem to be lining up pretty well for that, but it will be a few months until we know for sure.

  11. #656
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Finally it feels like we're getting somewhere.
    They are in Asgard, not in Jotunheim here, right? The design (and the wine) seem to be Asgardian. But the chair Loki is sitting on has his sign on it. Which would mean they came a long way since Thor#1, where Thor threatened Loki never to show up again. Just a silly little detail.

  12. #657
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,988

    Default

    hey you're back! guessing you left for a while due to show spoilers?

    And yeah, I was kind of wondering that myself, maybe Thor has special chairs in Asgard for the rulers of the various realms?

    But I do wish we saw why things have changed from issue 1. it kind of feels like a plot was dropped there. Thor was throwing hammers at Loki's head for just asking how he was doing, and then they were fine with each other. The one thing that changed was that Thor needed Loki's help, but i don't really want to think that Thor's only playing nice because Loki can do something he needs.

  13. #658
    Spectacular Member Karabaja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Not spoilers; sheer jealousy that you guys live where Disney+ can be watched, and I don't �� and also a huge amount of workoad that I have. I'll try to be more active, now that I have something to look forward to

  14. #659

    Default

    Heimdall is destined to kill Loki in Ragnarok so if you wanna give him a rival based off the myths...he could be interesting. Same with Loki's siblings but I think those were cut out.

    He has two wives Sigyn and Angrboda so maybe they could pop up?

  15. #660
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,988

    Default

    Hopefully not reading too much into it, and it really is the start of something more substantial for him. His appearances have been fairly sporadic, so sometimes when something like this comes up, i wonder if i am making too much out of it. Like, here he turns down Thor asking him to do a quest, basically, and I'm like 'oh it's finally starting!' which taken in isolation seems.... odd. But then I remember all the other foreshadowing, and feel better about it. It's just that it only lasts like a page or two here and there, so it doesn't seem quite linked together sometimes. But it's definitely present, the couple pages in issue 4, where Loki lifted Mjolnir and the captions were all like 'this is a story for another time' remain the strongest bit of foreshadowing that keeps me pretty sure I'm not just making up shit out of nothing. Pretty certain this is the start of the story those pages were referring to.

    With all the role swaps, their destined opponents would get all swapped around too, though right? If we assume Ragnarok matchups still line up the same way according to role rather than character, (not a guarantee, but probably a safe bet) and Loki is Thor's replacement, he would end up facing the replacement to Jormungandr. (and Sif would kill Blake) It wasn't terribly clear on this point, but I still feel like More was being set up to be the new Jormungandr. Had the potential to be world ending, was left free, and was set up as a sort of opponent to Loki. It wasn't quite explained why they hated Loki that much, but they did. Hard to say if Cates will use this though, stuff from Valkyrie has been a crap shoot on whether it counts or not. I guess this means Thanos is the new Surtur, rather than Sindr, which is a bit odd.

    and yeah Loki had a wife, and she was in the comics for a while early on, but she vanished with like, no explanation at all, years ago. Just one day she was gone and that was it, no one even really commented on it. If Sigyn is still alive, no idea where she might be.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •