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  1. #631
    Spectacular Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    AoA, cool!
    Speaking of Thor covers, I have this one on my phone:
    VIRGINTHR4_1024x1024_2x_f792a517-5087-4fdb-bb9b-46e4f99ca85f_580x.jpg
    Last winter I had quite a different one though ;p
    728cb82bd2b5f4913ac7c44cb8ab7c3b.jpg
    Last edited by Yoruno; 09-08-2021 at 06:52 AM.

  2. #632
    Spectacular Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    What the hell is going on in the last panel of Avengers Tech-On?!

  3. #633
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    ah, that second one is so cute!

    I was kinda intending to only use mine on the lock screen, cus the apps would cover up his face, but... turned out, the face was pretty much exactly aligned with the third row of apps, so i just left a gap, and found an icon set with some vaguely complimentary colours, and it's all good https://imgur.com/a/gIAnsFs

    as for Tech-On, that was on where i was like 'maybe read it later on Unlimited' cus the premise wasn't really my thing, so I had not been following it, but after your comment, went and looked up the ending... now, as mentioned, I have not read the first issue, or even most of the second, but I am getting the vibe, that this mech-Loki is either altered from or a copy of the original? so maybe the mystery helper next issue could BE Loki? tho, either way, it's out of main continuity, so could go any number of directions.

    For something in the main continuity, the new Sorcerer Supreme was teased today, and the cover has a detail that makes me think Loki's definitely in the running:


    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/09/09/ma...december-2021/

    As for the article, ok, first of all, it's not 'the new Dr Strange' it's the new Sorcerer Supreme. the sorcerer Supreme position has existed for thousands of years prior to Strange taking up the mantle, it's not something unique to him, and him alone. But, moving on. I hadn't been making any strong predictions here, I thought Loki had a solid chance, but so did a lot of other characters. But look at the hands, specifically the magic coming off of them. It's green. Not all Marvel magic users have colour coded powers, but some of them do, including Loki, who usually has green magic... but Enchantress and Dr Doom also have green magic, so... And some characters aren't colour coded at all, including Strange himself. But the fact that the magic is green does probably eliminate some candidates who also have colour coded magic, like Scarlet Witch (assuming she gets resurrected by the X-Men) who typically has red, and Wiccan who uses white/blue. There are no horns on the silhouette, but i could see Marvel eliminating those from the silhouette, because they would be a dead giveaway, and a lot of the other candidates also have distinctive headgear which is likewise missing. The silhouette does have small hands/wrists, so either someone quite thin, or a woman, I think Loki's thin enough to fit, but probably eliminates Doom, unless he's going in here without armor, which i find unlikely. The shoulders seem more masculine, though, which may eliminate Wanda, (again, if she gets resurrected, but as mentioned before, she would not have green magic) Enchantress, and Magik, but the Cloak of Levitation could be skewing things there.

    anyway, just saying, I think Loki's moved up the list of possible replacements. It's definitely not a sure thing, but... I do think he remains in the running. I'd say with this, I'd have to call it a race between between Loki, Magik, Shaman, and maybe Clea, unless they are going for someone completely out of left field. If he is the next Sorcerer Supreme, but for realsies this time, that would definitely provide a strong link to Earth, and have him acting in a pretty heroic manner, which could help him fit another role...
    Last edited by Raye; 09-09-2021 at 11:24 PM.

  4. #634
    Spectacular Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    IDK... Nico Minoru? Actually I doubt Stephen will die for real...

  5. #635
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Possible, (though her hair probably would not fit that silhouette) but, though Nico is one of my faves, I think characters like Nico and Wiccan are good choices for the position.... but later. I think Sorcerer Supreme is one that calls for someone a bit more mature than someone in their early 20s. Magik is probably younger than I'd like, even though i know she is a favorite. Though that's just personal preference. I just think it would feel really odd if it went to someone super young, regardless of how powerful they are. And I dunno, I thought it might be a fakeout and he would die and be resurrected within the same story, but while i doubt he will STAY dead, but this seems to confirm he will indeed die. Though it is still hard to call who will fill the position.

  6. #636
    Spectacular Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    I wish I could understand what is going on in The Mighty Valkyries... So, Loki's plan was to kinda link his fate to the new Norns? The line about All-Father Loki... I have no idea how it all fits the lore, and it sounds like they're making him... a villain again?
    Last edited by Yoruno; 09-15-2021 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #637
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I don't know, I was kind of mulling it over. And then I started playing the Sims, and kinda forgot about it. Honestly, it felt like the issue was trying to wrap up too many things, it was jumping from one thing to the next so rapidly it was hard to follow everything. A lot happened off-panel (I really think Kraven vs More and Loki deserved a LOT more panel time, for one) and a lot more got like one panel, when it deserved at least a page.

    As for Loki, like, on the one hand, he seemed to want to do the right thing, he and Jane just disagreed on what the right thing was. We'll see, when it comes to More, which of them ends up being correct. But I think, as roles are getting filled, More has kind of taken the place of Jormungandr, which means Loki may be right. I know it's kind of easy to go wolf to wolf and think 'new Fenris' but they'd have to be chained up for that to be the case. And while More isn't like encircling the Earth, it's not like Jormungandr literally did that in Marvel continuity anyway. The fact that Hela's spear made from Jormungandr's tooth is what incapacitated him may also be symbolically important there. I think the role there is more of a symbolic 'huge potentially world ending threat that's still allowed to be free on Midgard' kind of thing. And if that's the case, the fact that he's got a hate-on for Loki in particular lines up with Loki being the new Champion, since Jormungandr was Thor's monstrous fated opponent at Ragnarok....

    but then that All-Father line at the end skews that. It could be that's Loki's plan, but it won't work, i guess. I can't see that actually working, and we've seen that done to death a million times already anyway. Maybe that's all it was, over simplifying Loki down to 'always plotting for the throne'?

    But I also don't know how much weight to give any of this. Valkyrie also set up Tyr to be Loki's replacement, and Cates straight up ignored that part of things. So, I dunno, whatever Cates does still has the final say, so, we'll see. Unfortunately Cates hasn't used Loki enough that we can say if this fits or not.

    btw. as an aside i really didn't like how the artist drew Loki's crown/horns. the horns were too large, and it sat way too high on his forehead. it just looked wrong, and bugged me, even though otherwise the art was nice. What's weird is, in the first issue, it looked fine, so i dunno why it was changed in this issue.
    Last edited by Raye; 09-15-2021 at 04:39 PM.

  8. #638
    Spectacular Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    I was enamoured with the art at first, but then it quickly became inconsistent, wrong proportions, distorted faces etc.
    Now to the story:
    On the one hand, Loki almost claims he wants to control the new Norns. On the other hand, he willingly accepted the counterbalance, so it won't be just him, Jane will be there, too. Of course, he might try to keep Jane simply as a bodyguard while doing his own thing secretly, or persuade her and make her share the way he sees the situation, but I don't really think he underestimates her, so I expect some interesting interaction.
    I guess what happened in Hel was another Ragnarok, and, if we take this realm separately, Loki actually fits as All-Father, literally. If this story continues (and matters), it has a lot of potential.
    Last edited by Yoruno; 09-16-2021 at 11:02 PM.

  9. #639
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well he said he thought they'd need some one to 'guide' them, which is a lot less severe than 'control' to me. And I mean, he's not wrong. Mortals, especially children, granted the power of a god will need guidance to use that power well. I think Jane would agree with that, she got guidance, it's just that she got most of it from Thor before she got powers, rather than after. Now, is Loki the best one to offer that? did he mean something more sinister than just helping them be good gods? enh... debatable. It could be argued that he abused his own power so is hardly one to talk. But on the other hand, he may have gone bad because he got poor guidance, so he knows how essential that can be. But his intentions aren't necessarily bad, even if he may try to nudge them into giving him a good fate this time around, if they are the new Norns. (frustrating to not have that explicitly confirmed) And as you said, he did bind himself to them the same way Jane is. He's compelled to protect them, he literally can not harm them, so that's something, and an unusual turn for a character that's fought against fate so hard, to now basically be sworn to protect the weavers of fate. But if they are not guided into being good goddesses, then being compelled to protect them could be a bad thing for both him and Jane. If they become evil, perhaps due to lack of proper guidance, and he and Jane are still compelled to protect them... bad.

    It occurred to me that Odin felt the need to teach Thor a lesson, sending him to Midgard and making Donald Blake and blah blah. So this All-Father tease may just be the catalyst that makes Thor decide Loki needs a lesson taught. I really hope Loki doesn't turn heel again, but if Thor is going to create an echo of the past, and have it make sense in context, then he needs a reason to try and teach Loki a lesson, and all of Loki's past misdeeds are kinda too far in the past right now to serve that role. So he does actually kinda need to misbehave a bit in order to fill the Champion role. The character flaw that requires a lesson i keep harping on, and all. In Loki's case, he has many flaws to choose from, and they may end up picking his tendency to try and gain power for the sake of having it as the flaw that needs to be addressed.

    And yeah, i guess it was kind of a Ragnarok trial run, it may have been light on details and some key players, but... basic pieces are there.

  10. #640
    Protector of Mortals Prof. Aegis's Avatar
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    Don't know if anyone has posted this yet, but I came across some info for a future Loki statue based on Skottie Young's art. There's no release date and only a drawing and some computer images, but it looks good!

    https://www.diamondselecttoys.com/bl...imated-statue/



    The Doors of Wisdom are never shut! - Benjamin Franklin

  11. #641
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    aw, nice! No i hadn't seen that, but will have to try and get me one (and the Nightcrawler one if i can) when it is released!

    also, solicits were released, but no mention of Loki that I saw. But Thor's solicit says Mjolnir is acting on it's own, so I am guessing this is the 'lightning that walks' tease from earlier, and Mjolnir is acting on it's own, and apparently acting badly, now that it has no wielder. Maybe it being kinda officially linked solidly to one person tempers it's bad qualities, or something. So this may mean Loki won't get it, but that's ok, I have said before that I don't think the hammer is necessarily a part of the role, Thor just linked it to his time in that role. But we'll have to see how this resolves, Thor has to find some way to prevent it from falling into the hands of Thanos, which probably either means getting it a new wielder who can control it, and prevent it from acting badly again, or destroy it.

    So been mulling over what i said above a bit more, and, as much as I want Loki to stay on the right path, as I think about it, if we are going to see an echo of the past with Loki, he does need to do something to get Thor to try and teach him a lesson. But it can't be so bad that he'd just like, throw him in a cell or something, it has to be something where Thor thinks he just needs to be taught a lesson, and once he's demonstrated he's learned it, he'll be good. So I don't think whatever it might be would be too awful, at least. But I do think it needs to be something new, because Thor just up and deciding to do this due to Loki's past misdeeds out of the blue would feel strange, it needs some kind of trigger event. I do think Loki's constant grabbing at power could be a good flaw to be addressed in this way though. Both because it could make sense for Loki to see Thor fucking things up, and decide the best way to fix that situation is to remove him from the throne, and because that is something where being a lesson could look similar to what Thor went through. Take away any hint of power, and send him to Midgard until he realizes, and somehow demonstrates, that there are better things to strive for. I would certainly hope that Thor would not repeat the Donald Blake situation right after he saw what kind of effect it had on Blake, though. Maybe a simple case of amnesia where he thinks he is mortal for a while (and he would remember it afterward) would be enough, and his reward for learning his lesson would be getting his memories back? I dunno.

  12. #642
    Spectacular Member Yoruno's Avatar
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    I doubt that being sent to Midgard might teach Loki a lesson, he's too well-adjusted for this place (in any capacity, either as a god or as a mortal), and will be able to adjust to any other place as well. I'm not sure he strives for power any longer, on the contrary, he's disillusioned with it. That Allfather line could have had very different implications, including being a protector but not necessarily a leader. But, to be honest, I have to say I still don't see the whole picture. The new goddesses have not been confirmed yet as the Norns, and this plotline is still open for twists. We think they are the Norns, Loki thinks they are, but all of us might be mistaken. They might be part of the cycle, yet they might also be a new rival pantheon. And, finally, Cates might outright ignore this story, but then the problem is that we don't get enough Loki in Cates's run to understand what he's up to.

  13. #643
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Well, in Norse Myth, 'All-Father' referred to Odin, and Odin alone, (in part because in the myths, Odin never stopped ruling Asgard until Ragnarok, which was the ending of the story and beginning of the next) but in the context of Marvel specifically, where things progressed past Ragnarok, it seems to act as more of a title, for anyone who is ruling Asgard. But in either case, I really don't think Loki, a Norse God, would be using it in a vague 'protector' sense. To him, that word has very specific meaning, and he would be using it in that way. I know it's not what we'd want, but... I just can't picture him using it in any other way. To him, 'All-Father' means the king of Asgard.

    And on that subject, while I don't think he's as obsessed with it as he has been, and I think his motivations behind it are better... I don't think he's given up on power grabs. He ran for president, as a big one. It was implied he had ulterior motives, besides winning, but... and while he did have good intentions and accomplished good things when 'Sorcerer Supreme', he still had to be prodded into giving up the Sorcerer Supreme position after he had accomplished what he set out to do. And he's still king of the Frost Giants, and while doesn't like it much, I get the impression it's more because he thinks it is a backwater of little importance that doesn't really allow him to do anything important. And after Thor's blunders early into his rule, I could see Loki's idea of fixing the situation to be to take control himself. He may have better intentions than he did previously, and not be a tyrant, so better than previous attempts, but.... I could see it.

    And liking mortals and their world is not the same thing as understanding what it is like to BE mortal. I think Loki's got a better grasp on the mortal world than Thor does at the moment, (despite what Thor would have us believe with that frankly bizarre hot dog scene) particularly when it comes to media and technology, and he does have some mortal friends. But that doesn't mean he really understands what it means to be a mortal. I think there was a reason to bring up Thor's perspective on immortality a couple issues ago. While I don't agree with how it was portrayed, (I don't think immortals would have trouble remembering things that had just happened. That's stupid, it just makes it seem like immortals have short term memory defects. Forget things from long ago, sure, but not last week. But i do get that from an immortal perspective, it could feel like the mortals in your life could come into your life and then just cease to be in what feels like an instant, which was the more important takeaway there) I think they could be building on that line of things in the future. We currently have two characters among the Asgardians who started out as mortal, or at least thought they were, who got made into gods, and are now, presumably, immortal. Jane Foster and Donald Blake. Their perspective is going to shift, even if it may take a while, and i could see it going the other way too, with having an immortal forced to realize just what it means to have like 100 years tops, and then you're done, with the years at the beginning and end of that span being... not in top form. The idea of having to accomplish everything he wants to do in like 50-60 years is probably inconceivable to Loki, who has already lived at least 2,000 years and has thousands more to go. So while I don't think a Donald Blake situation where a swap happens would works so soon after Prey showed us how badly something like that can backfire, I do think somehow having Loki placed in the shoes of a mortal, with no magic powers, no connections to powerful entities, and the certainty that in at most 70 or so years, he will be dead or old age, if something else doesn't take him sooner, could be eye opening for him, like it was for Thor, particularly if he was just some average Joe, like Blake was. Loki is used to working on schemes that affect the entire world, that's the scale he operates on. To make him realize a life that operates on a MUCH smaller scale, just someone who had an average in every way life with average goals of finding happiness, and getting through life having accomplished something to be remembered for, but not really having a profound effect on the world could have value and worth. I think he kinda gets that on a conceptual level, but... probably not really, because he's never experienced that. I know this isn't something that could go on too long, because following the life of average joe Loki living his life as like, a programmer or whatever, won't hold interest for too long, and it has to advance to the next step eventually, but... I mean we know this is possible, it happened in JIM, but it happened to Kid Loki, (and a bunch of the other Asgardians, including Thor) not this one.

    Thor got his first taste of this lesson back in the Viking age with that woman he was in love with, and then he went away to do god things (cus Loki) for 50 years and came back to discover she had died of old age. that made it clear he had a completely different idea about what constituted 'a long time' to a mortal, due to his long life. And that did prompt him to spend more time with mortals because they would die after, from his perspective, a very short amount of time. That gave him more understanding of mortals and their world than most Asgardians at that time, but Odin still did the whole Blake situation where he had to see the world through the eyes of a completely average mortal to temper his arrogance. Because liking mortals and their world isn't the same as understanding what it's like to BE mortal, he still considered himself better than them, even if he liked them and their world.

    And not sure if Loki thinks they are the Norns... he never said one way or the other. Of all the gods, i think he's the most likely to see the big picture of all the roles changing hands, so he could have come to the same conclusion we did, but.... not confirmed.
    Last edited by Raye; 09-21-2021 at 04:02 PM.

  14. #644
    Spectacular Member Fanto.mx's Avatar
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    Loki has a fairly meaty role in this week's What If...?, which centers around how things would have gone differently if Odin returned Loki to Jotunheim.

    There's some pretty clear implication here that in the MCU, Loki looks like he does, in some way, by choice. We could talk about other magical means, but it sure seems like Loki's relationship with Frigga defined him in a whole lot of ways. And not having to "share" his mother's attention may have been the main reason that Thor was so stunted in this episode.



    Thor got his first taste of this lesson back in the Viking age with that woman he was in love with, and then he went away to do god things (cus Loki) for 50 years and came back to discover she had died of old age. that made it clear he had a completely different idea about what constituted 'a long time' to a mortal, due to his long life. And that did prompt him to spend more time with mortals because they would die after, from his perspective, a very short amount of time. That gave him more understanding of mortals and their world than most Asgardians at that time, but Odin still did the whole Blake situation where he had to see the world through the eyes of a completely average mortal to temper his arrogance. Because liking mortals and their world isn't the same as understanding what it's like to BE mortal, he still considered himself better than them, even if he liked them and their world.


    This could be a useful possibility for that story. Bats would be a constant double reminder for Loki. Want a constant reminder of what it means to be mortal and the consequences of thumping around with god powers? GHOST DOG. THAT HE KILLED BY ACCIDENT.

    I do think that Loki, if he's going to be slotted into the Champion role, is going to need some sort of grounding in mortality/Midgard. He does have sociopathic tendencies, even in his more empathetic and heroic modes, using people more as pieces in his plans than as actual people, even when the purpose of the plan is to benefit others. He really doesn't trust anyone to join him in his plans/schemes, though that's for pretty good reason. They don't trust him, so he doesn't trust them.

    I don't think Bats could completely fill the role of a grounding, but he could be the start. Loki probably needs to be invested in some way that makes him care more deeply about the consequences of his actions. The "more like All-Father" thing is pretty worrying, since it feels a bit like he's back to his old motivations, but it could just as easily be the story beat that launches this need to care for and understand Earth in order to actually help it.
    Last edited by Fanto.mx; 09-23-2021 at 04:01 PM.

  15. #645
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    What If was pretty fun! which was a nice break after a string of tragic episodes. Even if there were some tragic undertones and implications to it all. I did like that without Odin pitting them against each other, Loki and Thor ended up being friends. But goes to show how toxic that situation was for Loki in particular. But the lack of that relationship ended up turning Thor into a stunted manchild. Though you'd think there sould be a way to resolve that without creating the toxic mix of factors that led Loki to being the little shit he was. It's sad to think that the only way for Thor to be the best he could be is to make Loki the worst version of himself to prop Thor up. Though, this is supported by the Loki series.

    But also, like, this goes to what I was saying about the comics, too. Thor in that episode loved Midgard, seemed pretty taken with Jane. But that wasn't enough to make him the kind of person he needed to become. Liking Midgard and mortals is not the same as understanding what it is to be mortal, or how fragile they and their world can be. It was still pretty clear he needed the lesson he got i the original continuity, or he'd be a stunted manchild. Thor didn't have bad intentions, he wasn't a bad person, just immature. But his lack of understanding about how big of an impact his party had on the planet, and what that meant for the mortals could have been pretty bad.

    And I think Loki still needs that. Loki has absolutely come a long way and is a much better person than where he started from. But I think he's still got a ways to go. He's taken a liking to Midgard and mortals, but he is lacking the understanding of what his actions really MEAN to the average person. As a literal god, the impact he has on the world relative to like 99.9% of mortals is MASSIVE, and he's so used to thinking on that level of scale, I think he fails to realize the impact his actions have on average people, even when his intentions are good. (and to be fair, this goes for some other morals as well, like Tony Stark, Reed Richards, and Dr Strange also have problems with this. They are very much the exception to the rule though, and are not the mortals Loki needs to learn from.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fanto.mx View Post


    This could be a useful possibility for that story. Bats would be a constant double reminder for Loki. Want a constant reminder of what it means to be mortal and the consequences of thumping around with god powers? GHOST DOG. THAT HE KILLED BY ACCIDENT.

    I do think that Loki, if he's going to be slotted into the Champion role, is going to need some sort of grounding in mortality/Midgard. He does have sociopathic tendencies, even in his more empathetic and heroic modes, using people more as pieces in his plans than as actual people, even when the purpose of the plan is to benefit others. He really doesn't trust anyone to join him in his plans/schemes, though that's for pretty good reason. They don't trust him, so he doesn't trust them.
    Bats as Loki's new pet could be fun! not sure if Bats would be down with that idea but...yeah. Bats needs someone to take him on walkies. What's interesting about that page is that you have this perfectly ordinary mortal dog, who under normal circumstances, would live like 15 years (17 is REALLY old for a Basset hound! they have terrible health problems as a breed) and who then had pseudo-immortality thrust upon him out of the blue. Sure, technically he's dead, but... ghost. And he seems to realize the implications of that. He knows he's going to lose everyone in his life. So him having an immortal friend would be nice, and Loki, as the person who placed him in that situation, is a good candidate for that, and, as you said, a walking reminder of what mortality means. And hey, would give Cates an excuse to write Bats some more!

    (also, i want Loki to show up in Death of Dr Strange, even if he's not the new Sorcerer Supreme, just to have Lee Garbett draw him again, if only for a few pages)

    Yeah, I think he's still assuming everyone is against him, so he has to manipulate them to accomplish his goals. I think that's a pretty safe assumption for many people, to be fair. And it's his own fault, something i would hope he realizes, but that doesn't change the situation he's in now. Like on the subject of Bats, I am pretty sure that's the whole reason he did what he did in Dr Strange. He knew damn well that going to Strange and asking for the spell to fix magic would have gone over like a lead balloon. He could have explained in detail why he wanted it and what he would do with it, but Strange would have thought it was a trick. So Loki resorted to more creative measures. But problem is, there are some people who he could just... ask for help, and they would give it, but I don't think he can see that, not trusting people to trust him is his default setting. He even tricked Verity rather than just asking for her help, even though she probably would have. Maybe being forced to live as a mortal without all that baggage and having to ask for help to get by is something he needs.

    I don't think Bats could completely fill the role of a grounding, but he could be the start. Loki probably needs to be invested in some way that makes him care more deeply about the consequences of his actions. The "more like All-Father" thing is pretty worrying, since it feels a bit like he's back to his old motivations, but it could just as easily be the story beat that launches this need to care for and understand Earth in order to actually help it.

    Yeah, this is how i am looking at it. I know it's tempting to not want Loki to ever backslide or stumble, but that's not really the most interesting path to take, if everything came easy. And sometimes it's necessary to stumble to learn something from it. As long as it's done with the goal of him learning something, and moving forward and not just a flat out reversion, I'm ok with that. Two steps forward and one step back progress isn't uncommon for Loki, though I get that it can be frustrating to read the step back bit. And I think there needs to be an inciting incident to trigger this, because it would just seem so random for Thor to just up and decide to do something like this out of the blue. Like yeah, Loki's done a lot of bad things, but at this point in the story, Loki and Thor seem to be pretty ok with each other, so why would Thor do something like that? It just feels like Loki needs to give him some kind of reason before it can happen.
    Last edited by Raye; 09-23-2021 at 06:44 PM.

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