Loki Appreciation 2021

[Prof. Aegis]

Haven't been on here in a while, but I just want to thank all of you for posting the links, the updates, the pics and everything! I went to the Disney site and ordered the Loki Marvel Select figures! Both Disney stores near me closed down in the past few months, so I have none close enough.

Both figures look great! They did really well with the sculpts it seems. Yeah, the paint in those pics definitely isn't the best, but as for the overall design I'm impressed. Plus, finally Kid Loki! Can't wait till mine come in!

2 more weeks until the series starts, and while I'm excited, I'm trying to keep low key expectations. Just knowing its the MCU and they could go anywhere with the stories. I'm just hoping they do well by the character and having Tom as an executive producer is a good sign.

Only complaint I have is the low appearances of Loki in the MU itself. No series, no mini, no specials. Just reprints. I wish I understood Marvel's take on Loki in comics, as it seems they just don't really care with the exception of money from trades they can reprint. Here's hoping the MCU series does well enough to generate strong interest in creating a new comic series.

Thanks again everyone for all the amazing posts and effort keeping the info and images flowing!

[Raye]

yeah I'm just happy to FINALLY have a figure of Kid Loki, about 10 years late but hey. It's not poseable, just a little bonus statue, but he still looks fine. And the sculpt on the larger one is good, and I appreciate that they included a little stand, so he doesn't have to be posed in a stable but awkward pose, or lean against something like some others. Whoever did the sculpt obviously paid attention to the design in the comics... paint people, not so much. But paint is a whole lot easier to fix than a bad sculpt.

And I can understand why there is a lot of focus on the MCU right now, with the show just around the corner and all. But I would have expected a bit more in the comics to play off of that. But I thought the same thing about WandaVison and Falcon and Winter Soldier, Marvel just seems to have dropped the ball on tie-in material for the shows. I'm not saying they should do the clumsy attempts at synergy they've sometimes attempted in the past, just give the characters some spotlight as the show is coming out. I guess we have Double Trouble, though, but that's kind of an alt-universe, and he's appearing in Valkyries, but not in a major role. But the latest solicit for Thor does give me hope they have something planned for him, with Thor formally giving up his old role, finally. But though Loki is on the cover, who the role goes to is speculation, so... I do think Loki is one of the main candidates though, if you pair it with him formally renouncing his role last issue, and his appearance on that cover. That issue, and the one following where the actual change likely happens, won't be out until after the show is over though.

[Yoruno]

Don't you think he got rid of his older title to establish himself as God of Stories and nothing else? Because what he did in the previous issue was placing a character into a story. I don’t believe he fits Thor's position, frankly speaking, and I don’t think he needs it.

[Raye]

I don't think Loki necessarily was doing that with an intent to claim a specific role, i think he just wanted to NOT be the God of Lies, because he was frustrated that Thor and others continued to see him that way when he was trying to distance himself from that. What specific role came after denouncing his old role wasn't necessarily part of the decision. (it may have been part of his thought process, but not necessarily. all we saw was him giving his old role to Blake, there was nothing in that scene about what role Loki would fill after that) But even if he was doing it with an eye towards being 'God of Stories' well, he's tried that before and it didn't work, so not sure why he'd expect something different this time. And that's just not one of THE roles in play here. We are talking the roles that have been filled by different people at different points in time, while 'Stories' is something Loki just... made up, and was more a way for him to frame 'lies' as 'stories' to cast his role in a more positive light. This was a step further. He doesn't want to just tell pleasant likes like stories, he wants to tell NO lies. Like the lie Thor was asking of him in the beginning wasn't necessarily anything bad, but he still didn't want to do it. But in any case, it's also not something he inherited, like the others. Before Thor there was Sigurd, before Odin there was Bor, before Loki there was Cul, etc. and those are the roles changing hands once again, this is not the case with Stories, it doesn't fit into the hierarchy, so i don't think it counts as far as the big changing of the guard that's happening is concerned.

But I don't think the roles are really something a character chooses for themselves, in any case. Thor never chose to be made all-Father, and in fact seems pretty overwhelmed by it. I don't think Sif was looking to have her brother die and take over his position. Jane was given the role of Valkyrie by Thor. and as we saw, Blake was given the role by Loki. so I think the 'thor' has to be given, or earned while not strictly trying for it, as well.

As for if Loki fits Thor's role, I think he does. Boil the role down to it's essence, and I think Loki fits it really well. We're not talking Loki becoming just like Thor as he is right now in terms of personality and actions, we're talking broad definitions of the role. Though this does include acting as a protector of both Asgard and Midgard, that's only the very surface of it, and really serves as more of a framework for fulfilling the important aspects of the role. The really important bit is that the person in the role has to overcome a big character flaw. in Thor's case, this was arrogance. It could be the same for Loki, or it could be something else like dishonesty, or vindictiveness, or something. A BIG part of the role is learning on the job in an attempt to overcome this flaw. This is the reason the worthiness enchantment on Mjolnir even exists. Remember, we are talking going back to the beginning of the story, not the end, so Loki still needs to overcome this flaw and develop, while we have mostly seen Thor, at least in recent years, after he's already mostly overcome his flaws.

As for if he NEEDS it, probably not, strictly speaking. But the same could be said for Thor and the All-Father role as well. I don't think either one of them needs to be thrust into an unfamiliar role that they may not be comfortable filling to tell interesting stories with them. But the changing of the guard is the story that is being told, and while I think Loki could have cool stories without all this, I do think seeing him (and Thor) placed into a role he's not quite comfortable with and struggle with it could be interesting.

[Yoruno]

Wow, it's not just Mobius's suit that's inverted. Loki's shirt is as well - the collar is one piece with the front and the buttons seem to be inside out.

[Fanto.mx]

"Needs it" for what? I mean, no comic book character needs anything, but there are always new ways to explore and develop the characters.

And when talking about the role swapping, I certainly don't mean a direct one-to-one takeover of the role; e.g. Loki slotting into Thor's old role wouldn't make Loki another Thor, he would still be Loki, just with a new role to fill in the larger storyspace. There has been a sort of Fables-like undercurrent that is only sometimes made explicit over the past decade or so of Asgardian stories, where they are, at least to some extent, made up of stories and expectations. We have also seen that Asgardian history sort of rhymes, though sometimes better than other times. For example, Bor was Odin when Odin was Thor. The shape of their existence seems to be a bit cyclical and driven by a few archetypes. Now that Thor is All-Father, there should be a new Champion, but the current Thor story is all about how he wants to be both, but they're mutually exclusive.

Does the new Champion need to be Loki? No.
Does Loki need to be the new Champion? No.
Would that open up a whole lot of interesting stories that are very much in keeping with the past decade or so of Asgardian stories? Yup.
Would it continue the thread of Thor needing to learn to trust Loki? Yup.
Would it continue the thread of Loki becoming "good," but in his own way? Yup.
Would it give space for Loki's brand of doing good to be clearly contrasted with Thor's? Yup.
Would it push Thor toward growing into his new role as All-Father and becoming what he ostensibly always wanted to be? Yup.
Would it provide fertile ground for the ongoing interpersonal Asgardian Family Soap Opera? Oh yeah.

[Raye]

What inverted suits? did they post a new clip or screenshots or something?

Interview thing with Kieron Gillen and Al Ewing about Loki's face turn in the comics, short but interesting: https://www.inverse.com/entertainmen...c-book-history

and yeah, 'need' is a weird thing in comics because the writers are only doing what they think will make for an interesting story, very little could actually be considered as something needed, just interesting. Some ideas will be better received than others, but just because one idea is well received and another isn't doesn't mean anything about it 'needed' to happen. Like, the change of direction with Loki in general, and the catalyst that set it all in motion, Kid Loki. Did it need to happen? no, Thor stories could have continued on either by leaving Loki dead and buried, or bringing him back just like he always had been, like nothing had happened, as had happened with many resurrections in comics over the years. I know there are fans out there who do want a return to that. But they decided to do something no one was expecting, because they felt it posed some interesting questions, and things just... developed from there. It sparked ideas that maybe no one had considered before precisely because it was a new direction that kind of came out of left field. Nothing about Loki's death demanded that when he be revived, it must be as a child, and a good kid at that, but they took a chance and it paid off. In order to get interesting stories, i feel like the characters sometimes have to be placed in situations fans are not necessarily asking for. But it's hard in comics because, as Ewing points out, the grip of the 'illusion of change' is strong, to the detriment of character development. But they seem to be taking some chances with the Asgard books that they have been reluctant to in the past, and that's largely what's kept me interested. I think it's time for the Illusion of Change to die.

That's why I think the current Thor run has the potential to be interesting. Placing characters into situations where they are uncomfortable and need to adapt often leads to good character stuff. I think it's had some rough spots (I think the Blake arc wrapped up maybe a bit too quickly, I'd have liked to see more of Loki's involvement there as well, and I'd have liked to see Blake do more damage, actually ON PANEL, not just a body showing up in the morgue. but still) and I definitely don't think Thor is reacting well to his new position in a lot of ways. But Thor dealing with things poorly doesn't make it bad, that's part of what makes it interesting. I do worry a bit going forward that when Thor does finally give up his old role, that when the book switches focus to Thor as All-Father fully, we just haven't seen that in Marvel. Odin's never had a book. So we don't know what that will be like, exactly. It could be really interesting, like Game of Thrones or the Crown or whatever, but it almost definitely will involve much less of Thor whacking things with a hammer or throwing lightning bolts up their ass, because that will be his successor's job. I'm not sure if a lot of fans of Thor are ready for Thor to switch to a political drama, with much less smashy smashy from Thor himself, which may doom this new direction's long term viability. Cates has to really nail it and convince everyone this is a good and interesting direction for Thor's character. And Thor himself has to do the job better than he has been, he's definitely made some mistakes early on that i think will come back to bit him in the ass later. But, there would be much less drama if something like freeing Blake or killing Galactus didn't have long term ramifications. I think it would be incredibly daring of Marvel to semi-retire Thor to the same level of exposure Odin typically got, and just focus on his successor (whether that is Loki or not) but I think that really would make fans revolt, and I do think there are many interesting story possibilities with Thor in the All-Father role, and him learning to become a good king, in any case.

And the roles and the gods being creatures of story stuff, yeah, this really got started in Gillen's Journey Into Mystery, with the different writers since adding different aspects, fleshing it out, and then it was Aaron that really started the roles that get passed down aspect, and that these roles are fixed and are in part what determines their fate. For the story to work, certain roles within it just simply need to be filled, or the whole system falls apart. I don't think this is necessarily a good thing for all involved on a personal level, because it does remove free will to a large extent, but I think it has story potential. And Cates is clearly continuing with it, and if he does have Thor explicitly give up his old role, then someone needs to fill it. I know there are other possibilities, but I do think Loki is one of the front runners. He's got the flaw aspect, he's got a familial connection to the new God of Lies (granted, it was somewhat handwaved in, but I think there is a reason they started to refer to Blake as 'brother' in the story and this is a large part of it) AND they set up a reason for Blake to hate him, personally. He'll almost certainly butt heads with Thor, as is tradition between those two roles. And I think it just has so much potential for drama and Thor and Loki's relationship.

[Yoruno]

The inverted shirt:
https://youtu.be/1S3w84aa_-E

As for the roles subject, we expect something that seems to be a logical development, but think of the multiple times they took and dropped ideas. I do have some expectations, but I wouldn’t place my bet on any.

[Raye]

huh, interesting. I don't know enough about 1960s fashion to know if that was a thing or not. but yeah looking at it the tailoring definitely seems odd, at the very least. The skinny flatbottom ties and the general aesthetic of the TVA are from the late 50s to early 60s though, (with some elements from other eras too. but mostly 60s) so i'd expect the shirts to reflect that era too. But I think the TVA might try to make looks that could be changed on the fly to blend in to the time period they travel to, so something reversible or otherwise changeable could make some sense. Like, if they have some kind of specific thing in mind, something like Loki's DB Cooper (assuming that is TVA Loki and not another variant) yeah just copy the clothes, but for smaller scale stuff, maybe flipping the jacket around would do. Not an exact match but close enough that you wouldn't stand out too much? But obviously blending in isn't always a concern, or Loki wouldn't have a big 'VARIANT' written across his back, or the other enforcer type agents with the body armor and stuff. but I'm just saying, sometimes blending in could be good.

and yeah, I know. I'm just saying, i think there's a good case to be made for the possibility. We are running out of potential 'Thor' candidates, assuming it is a known character, and of those who remain with no new role, I think Loki and Bill are the two most likely. I think Bill is the popular choice outside of Loki circles. But I think Bill is a red herring. I suspect he is there to make people think Thor's gonna give it to him to make up for breaking Stormbreaker, because he's all very Thor-like and all. and hell, maybe Thor even intends this, after he realizes he can't do both roles at once, but then twist, it's Loki. As with any speculation, i know i can be wrong, just saying, i think there's support for the idea. And when things didn't pan out before, it was usually when a new writer went in a different direction, but this is based on things Cates himself has set up.

I know i get kinda defensive about my little pet theory here. It's just, I just know that outside of Loki fans, it's kinda seen as crazy, because a lot of people reading Thor are not looking that deep into it, and just don't get the whole 'roles' idea. (or just don't like the idea) I mean i kinda get why, it's there, but it's a bit vague and hasn't been explicitly laid out in the books, but still. And/or they still think of Loki as a villain who will/should never be able to earn that sort of position. So I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, and explaining, so it just.... it gets my brain going and comes out. I ramble under the best of circumstances, so... Like, a while back when whole 'the hammer is acting weird and getting heavy' thing was just starting, i said some other place that i thought the problem was that Thor being all-father and still trying to act in the capacity of his old role as well, that he could do one or the other, not both. That's as far into it as i got. And this was something most had apparently never even considered, judging by replies, which was kinda revealing and surprising to me, cus it doesn't seem too out there to me, the subtext is pretty clear.... but the takeaway by most was that he would have to give up being all-father, because power corrupts, or something, and go back to his old role. Whereas i took the opposite position, that he had to give up his old role to be a better king, but i was definitely in the minority. I never even got into the Loki stuff, but suspect that would have gone over poorly. So I know my ideas on this isn't the popular theory going around in the broader Thor circles, but I do think it's supported in the story. Which is why i found the recent solicit vindicating. I was right about Thor giving up his old role, I may be right about the rest, too.

[Yoruno]

The shift is taking place for sure, and I fully support your theory here. Let's not forget the old Norns are absent, and Karnilla is trying to replace them with the new ones (I get it that she's going to fail). Nobody is writing the gods' destinies at the moment, so if they can't ultimately break the circle they will at least try to transform it into a spiral and get to the next level. I'm just not sure where it brings Loki. Thor fans don't seem to understand it, according to their comments... it's funny how the two fandoms differ here, resembling their "objects of worship": Thor readers tend to overlook details, while Loki fandom is all about plots, subplots and hints
As for the TVA fashions, I have an impression that this "undressing machine" thing is the one that dresses them, too, and it might be trying to copy the general look yet at the same time misinterpret minor details. Nobody ever wore shirts with collars like this or lapels cut out in jackets, neither 70 nor 60 years ago.

[Raye]

I've noticed that for a while. I think Thor and Loki appeal to different types of readers, for sure. Like i don't think either group is a monolith, i am sure lots of Thor fans would be fine with the same types of stories i am looking for, but.... on average. It's the same as with any character, some people like thinky stuff, some like action, some like funny, whatever, it's fine, like what you like, it's all good. But because the two characters are closely linked to each other, you end up with a situation where two groups of people who are looking for different things end up reading the same book, and end up with different takeaways and wants for the future. This is part of why i am hoping that, assuming this does all go down like i hope, Loki does get his own book spinning out of Revelations, where Thor can cater to one group and Loki to the other. Maybe the seeekrit project Cates has with Ottley. But even if it's the Tom Taylor one (same writer that did the issue your avatar comes from. just saying. But I doubt it is the Ewing and Hitch project, Ewing seems dead set on avoiding Loki. I think he is one of those writers who avoids characters they've put a lot of work into after they are done, I expect him to avoid Bruce Banner/Hulk from now on too) the timing does seem to line up. If the Revelations arc is 3 issues, then an announcement next month for something that spins out of it would fit. Also, if they do announce next week, the same week the first episode of Loki comes out, that would make sense, even if they couldn't get it to come out at the same time as the show, announcing it as the show begins airing would be a good move. kind of 'after you're done with the show, check this out.' But, as i said above, because a lot of Thor fans are more of the action adventure type fans who are here for a fun story of good guys and bad guys punching each other, they may not like it if it becomes more political. I don't mean real world politics (though I do think some of the subtext deals critically with American Exceptionalism and stuff) but i mean, if Thor is king, that's inherently political, even if the politics are those of a fantasy world. I think it could be super interesting. I'm just not sure if some other more 'traditional' Thor fans would agree. They seem to be more into maintaining a formula they like, so I'm sure many of them would be thrilled to just have it go back to Odin as All-Father, Thor as the champion, Loki as the villain and just do that. Whereas I am more about seeing things move forward in ways that challenge the characters. the prospect of changing things up is interesting to me precisely because it means we get to see things we haven't seen before.

edit - Huh. Just stumbled across this. Turns out we didn't have to wait for the solicits to know Thor was gonna give up Mjolnir. The trade said that already, more clearly. https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca...6120-item.html

"Odin has returned! But an air of tension now sits upon the throne. Father and son. All-Father and All-Father. Odin and Thor. Is this relationship forever doomed, and what does it mean for the Ten Realms? Determined to the best leader that he can be for Asgard, Thor makes the fateful decision that he must surrender Mjolnir. But what if the hammer isn’t ready to give up Thor? As all of Asgard reckons with Odin’s return and the aftermath of Donald Blake’s brutal attack, the God of Thunder will be rocked by revelations — and face a shocking confrontation with the Avengers! Plus, when the Infinity Stones return, Thor and a surprising guest-star must confront an infinite destiny!"

So while the latest solicit was a bit vague, this lays it out clearly, Thor definitely does choose to give up Mjolnir (and his old role along with it, i presume) but Mjolnir may not be ready to go. Maybe it's just that Thor associates the hammer with the role, because it was him becoming worthy of it that signaled him entering that role, but it's actually not? I mean Sigurd used Gram, so i can't see why the next person in the role couldn't also have a new weapon. (and yes, i know Bill just got a new ax. but no reason Loki couldn't get a new shiny too) Also, it apparently collects 15 to 18 plus the annual, so there must be a done in one right after the Revelations arc, since the solicits keep saying it's a 3 part arc.

[Yoruno]

I know it's unrelated to Marvel at all, but isn't it amusing that Jim Henson’s The Storyteller: Tricksters will feature Loki? So timely... The preview gave me the impression it was another Double Trouble chapter, only with red-haired Loki, while Thor is absolutely the same

[Raye]

I hadn't heard that! I'll have to check it out. Big fan of Jim Henson (and his successors)

[Yoruno]

I've just read what this Managarmr thing is. I'm not sure if the Mighty Valkyries follow the Norse mythhology, but if it does, I'd trust Loki rather than them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hati...C3%B0vitnisson

[Yoruno]

Loki has hacked Miss Minutes https://mobile.twitter.com/MissMinut...61428114227202