Loki Appreciation 2021

[Raye]

The pages are sometimes released but usually as previews, and not usually like, all of them, just a few. Some artists that work entirely digitally, including doing their own colours, (so, people like Mike Del Mundo or Rod Reis) sometimes sell limited run prints of pages without any dialogue, Fanto.mx up there actually bought some of these from Giant Sized Fantomex, (shocking!) and they look fantastic. And the sites that sell these prints do put up previews of what you are buying, effectively releasing text-free versions of the pages.... but Lee Garbett works traditionally in ink on paper, so... I own one of his pages, from Agent of Asgard #1, and it's definitely traditionally drawn. So, yeah, sadly you are probably only going to be able to find a few pages here and there if Marvel released some preview pages way back when they were promoting Agent of Asgard. but if you have some particular pages you need, as long as it's not like, a ton of them, I might be able to Photoshop out the dialogue and captions. Maybe, I can't make promises, it depends on how hard it would be. but I did remove the captions from this page to make a desktop background: https://i.imgur.com/4QyWkIK.jpg BUT I had a low resolution preview/promo page that i used to help me fill in the gaps.


Anyway, I read Thor yesterday, but Loki was not in it. and the solicit and cover don't really match what happened in the issue either, except in the very broadest sense, no bar, most fighting was vs the Wrecking Crew rather than Odin, so I can only guess that after the cover and solicit were done, they made changes when they did the actual issue. So that was a bit disappointing, was hoping for them to get going on Loki's stuff, but oh well.

Sorry for no replies, was Psychonauts-ing. It's one of my favorite games, which sadly never got a sequel until 16 years later, despite ending on a cliffhanger, due to being a cult classic, so, financial failure at launch, but beloved by those who DID play it, and it slowly gained a following. I normally wait for a sale to get games, but I loved the first one so much, I backed the sequel several years back when they started a crowdfunding campaign for it, so had a copy of the sequel coming my way, well, yesterday. So did a binge-replay of 1 beforehand over several days, and then, right into 2. it is great, totally worthy followup, just, you know, very, very late.

[Yoruno]

Thanks, Raye! No, don't photoshop the pages for me, I don't think I need them anymore. Which page do you own? I know Lee Garbett worked on commissions, but I didn't know pages could be bought as well.
The new Thor issue was a major disappointment for me, not only because of Loki's absence, but also because the story is moving in a direction that might possibly need no Loki's involvement at all.
At least, Loki was in What If episode. It was fun, but he was the villain again, even though the start was more promising when he co-operated with Fury.

[Yoruno]

Just look what I got as a B-Day present today!!20210826_094547.jpg[IMG]

[India E]

I don't know if this is the sort of thing anyone here would be interested in, but I just made a tribute edit video to honor the Loki series.

[Raye]

nice, happy birthday!!

And t hat is a cool video, nice job with the editing

the page I own is this one:



Page 15 of issue 1

As for Thor, I don't think it necessarily changes the direction of things, I really don't think they'll just do a repeat of Jane or anything, (but they may do a red herring with her, as they did with Bill) but it might point to them playing up the secrecy angle again, at least for a while. Which is frustrating if so, just because when you do that, you don't get to get inside his head and understand his motivations, except in hindsight, and even then it's up for interpretation. As mentioned been Psychonauting, and one of the things I love about the game is the exact same thing I like about current Loki. It is surprisingly deep, and one of it's main themes, no, THE main theme, is that people don't do things for no reason, no one is just 'good' or 'bad' they're... complicated. Everyone has something motivating them, which can sometimes mean mental illness or something traumatic that happened them, or a combination, (those links are from 1, it's too soon yet for analysis videos from 2, and i wouldn't want to spoil it anyway, but same holds there, but with more focus on trauma) and that they can be better if some of the bad motivations/issues are addressed and kept in check. All the 'bad guys' in the game get a second chance. Your goal in the games is not beating up/punishing bad guys, it's understanding and empathizing with them, and helping them become better. This is just a type of character arc I love, and it's a large part of why I like Loki's story, but also like heroes like Squirrel Girl who try to empathize with their antagonists. It is exploring those motivations that I enjoy, not just in that game, but in everything. And same goes for Loki. So while i get the need for secrecy for plot reasons sometimes, I just get frustrated when it is the default setting, because I want to see all that motivation stuff. Cates i doing a great job in his regard with Thor, he's doing some fucked up things, but you can understand why, I just wish he would do the same for Loki.

[Yoruno]

Any theories on why Thor is distracted so easily in the latest volume? Was this dialogue meant to show he's not ready to embrace his responsibilities? Did he fake it to avoid discussing the Mjolnir issue with Jane? Or was he under a spell? And what's the deal with accent?
The next issue is the last part of Revelations. What do I expect from it? A pep talk (or a pep fight) from the parents and a big truth to be learnt, but I'm not sure Loki will be anywhere near.

[Raye]

I think Thor's just out of his element. I think he could be a good king, but he needs some time to grow into the role, and it will take some time. Until then, he'll probably make a bunch of mistakes or overlook things. No one is good at a new role in life right away. As long as he's open to learning, and doing things differently than he may be used to, he should be ok in the end, even if there is a rough patch. (and same goes for Loki, and everyone else stepping into a new role) He's on the right track, with giving up Mjolnir, (even if Mjolnir had to push him into it) but clearly he did not think things through fully. Jane made a good point, that if anyone can lift it, then he should have been more careful about where/who it was left with. Though I do think she was being a bit harsh, I mean, it's not like he just left it laying out in the open. Avengers Mountain is in the north pole, and is the body of a dead celestial, with a high level of security. As long as the Avengers don't let it out of their base, it's pretty safe. Yeah, their security was breached recently thanks to a mole, but it's still a lot more secure than she made it sound, it's not as if just anyone can come along and pick it up on a whim. Though, Loki could. He knows a lot about their base, considering he is responsible for them having it int he first place, and with his magic he can teleport, go invisible, take on a different appearance, and other things that could allow him to infiltrate it without too much trouble. But in that case, it's not as though leaving it in Asgard would have made it more secure. Though it would make it more secure from most mortals, but not a LOT more secure, since it's not like Avengers Mountain is easy to access.

As for next issue, I think we will see some new roles revealed. It looks as though Freyja has taken on Angela's role of Huntress, which means Angela needs a new one. They may tease her as the new Champion, or that may be her and Freyja's goal for her, they may be there to get Mjolnir for her. But I think Angela is much more of a 'war' goddess. While she does generally land on the right side of things, I think she lacks the more caring/empathetic aspect required of the role, and would push it towards more violence, rather than less, which I think is what is actually needed. I know it is seen as a warrior role by Thor, and probably by Odin and others as well, but I think that's just what was required of HIS time i the role, which he took up around the time of the Viking Age, and that is not necessarily what is needed going forward in THIS age. The role is much bigger and more nuanced than just being a fighter, even if fightng battles was something that it called for during Thor's time in it. She also lacks any real connection to Midgard. She was raised in Heven most of her life, and when she came to this universe, she promptly ran off with the GotG, rather than stick to Midgard. So she's got no ties to Earth, no relationships there, no history, nothing, and that connection to Midgard is a key element. (Loki's got both Zelma and Verity acting as his 'Jane' link to Midgard, in addition he's just generally got a lot more history there, and out of everyone in Asgard, he seems to 'get' modern Midgard the best, even if it is a relatively recent development) And the War god position is open, still, after Bill went off to do his own thing, so.... also, I don't think people choose their own roles, they fall into them. Either specifically granted them (like Odin giving his role as King to Thor), inherit them like Sif did, or they just display the right qualities to just kind of fall into them on their own, probably without even realizing it until later. So if Angela (or Loki for that matter) wants to role of the Champion and is actively trying to get it, I don't think that will work. She may try to get that role, but end up the Goddess of War. Meanwhile, Loki could just fall into the role without anyone realizing, until later (I think he already has, actually)

But yeah, I was hoping we'd see Loki this arc, but looks like maybe not. But the arc did open with that scene of Loki helping Thor up, and that had some strong foreshadowing vibes, so....

[From The Shadows]

[Raye]

So was adding to the playlist, I'm still kind of considering options, so it's not like done or anything, but specifically, i of course had to add:



Not every day you have a song tailor made specifically for the character, after all. I mean, it was from Angela's Spawn days, when Spawn was super hot, and had an entire album made about it, but still. I mean there are tons of songs about Thor, or Loki etc. but they're about the myths, not the comic characters. Doesn't stop me from using them, but there are some significant differences from the myths to start with, and those differences are growing larger, so they are actually not always the best fit. Anyway.... It got me thinking about Angela some more. My gut feeling is that they are going to set her up as the new Champion type character, or at least as a candidate for the role... BUT it won't work out in the end, I've laid out some of my reasoning above of why I don't think she fits the role, at least not at this particular point. But, given the glimpse we've seen of the future, and what Jane said to him, it may be that Thor reconsiders his decision to leave the hammer with the Avengers, and, possibly at Freyja's prompting, give it, and the role, to Angela. but, dun dun dun, hammer goes missing before they can. It makes sense from their perspective to give it to her, (or Bill, or some other trusted warrior type) even though WE know, based on foreshadowing and things we know about Loki's personal journey over the past 10ish years, that he may be a better fit.

To me, when I think of what defines the role of the Asgardian Champion (not necessarily the worthiness enchantment on Mjolnir) is a combination of factors:
-A character flaw that they need to learn to address, something the All-Father may create a scenario to teach them, like how Odin created Donald Blake to teach Thor humility. An attachment to and understanding of Midgard, in Thor's case, relationships with women helped create this attachment, and this attachment conflicts with what the All-Father sees as their duties to Asgard. And though Thor kind of ended up falling behind the times, at the time he took up the role, he understood Midgard better than any of the other Asgardians. It's just that human society progressed, while he... kinda didn't.
-A nemesis with some kind of connection, usually a family connection. (which is why I think Cates fudged things a bit to make Blake into Thor and by extension Loki's sorta-kinda brother. I mean yeah he could have used Tyr or someone, but... still )
-and, of course, the actual job, acting as a protector of Asgard, facing the things that threaten the realm.

That last part is what I think Thor etc are likely going to be focused on. And because Thor faced those threats with a hammer in hand beating the snot out of everything he came across, it makes sense that his first thought would be to find someone who could meet those threats in the same way he would have done. But I don't think HOW the problems are dealt with is the important thing, just that they are dealt with. It could be with violence, sure.... but could also be dealt with via magic, trickery, diplomacy etc. As long as things get done, why do the methods matter? (i mean, within reason) I also think the earlier things I listed, in particular the character flaw and the connection to Midgard are extremely important in terms of the story. They are completely inconsequential to protecting the realm, sure, but the role is not just the job they do, it is the place they fill in the story. But it makes sense that from the characters perspective, they would be focused on the job part of things, and instead opt for someone they trust more, and who could be more of a fighter. But Angela, while she does tick some boxes, as mentioned lacks ANY connection to Midgard, and though technically his sorta-kinda sister, she's never even MET Donald Blake, not even once, she may not even be aware of his existence, and vice versa. Loki though does have a connection to Midgard, via Verity and Zelma, and if he is chosen to be the new Sorcerer Supreme for reals this time, (admittedly a big if, there are many strong contenders there, and Strange's death may be a fakeout too) well, that would provide a BIG connection, as well as conflicting duties. And Blake will HATE him, after what Loki did to him at the end of Prey, there is good potential motivation there for nemesis status that Angela lacks.

Also, if your goal is to show that 'can fight real good' is not what defines the role, at least, not ALL of what defines it, then it does make sense to put someone who ticks those boxes into the role,... and then it doesn't work out. So, I'm just saying, even if they declare Angela the new Champion next issue, I think it's still pretty likely that it's not going to really take.

[Raye]

Just noticed that Valkyries #5 has a couple variant covers with Loki. Though one seems to just be a callback to issue 1, unless More gets to Loki again in the last issue, and the other is just.... like game stuff, no bearing on events at all but at least he's fighting against Surtur alongside Thor instead of WITH Surtur

[Fanto.mx]

OOOh. Surtur. Interesting that Loki seems to be in fully "classic" attire there. Flashback maybe? Then again, Sleipnir is missing some legs, so maybe just not great use of models.

EDIT: OH. Duel is a game.

The playlist is super fun to listen to, and does a good job of building a mood and telling a story. With familiarity with the story, it really does make good sense.

I think Thor's just out of his element. I think he could be a good king, but he needs some time to grow into the role, and it will take some time. Until then, he'll probably make a bunch of mistakes or overlook things. No one is good at a new role in life right away. As long as he's open to learning, and doing things differently than he may be used to, he should be ok in the end, even if there is a rough patch. (and same goes for Loki, and everyone else stepping into a new role) He's on the right track, with giving up Mjolnir, (even if Mjolnir had to push him into it) but clearly he did not think things through fully. Jane made a good point, that if anyone can lift it, then he should have been more careful about where/who it was left with. Though I do think she was being a bit harsh, I mean, it's not like he just left it laying out in the open. Avengers Mountain is in the north pole, and is the body of a dead celestial, with a high level of security. As long as the Avengers don't let it out of their base, it's pretty safe. Yeah, their security was breached recently thanks to a mole, but it's still a lot more secure than she made it sound, it's not as if just anyone can come along and pick it up on a whim. Though, Loki could. He knows a lot about their base, considering he is responsible for them having it int he first place, and with his magic he can teleport, go invisible, take on a different appearance, and other things that could allow him to infiltrate it without too much trouble. But in that case, it's not as though leaving it in Asgard would have made it more secure. Though it would make it more secure from most mortals, but not a LOT more secure, since it's not like Avengers Mountain is easy to access.

As for next issue, I think we will see some new roles revealed. It looks as though Freyja has taken on Angela's role of Huntress, which means Angela needs a new one. They may tease her as the new Champion, or that may be her and Freyja's goal for her, they may be there to get Mjolnir for her. But I think Angela is much more of a 'war' goddess. While she does generally land on the right side of things, I think she lacks the more caring/empathetic aspect required of the role, and would push it towards more violence, rather than less, which I think is what is actually needed. I know it is seen as a warrior role by Thor, and probably by Odin and others as well, but I think that's just what was required of HIS time i the role, which he took up around the time of the Viking Age, and that is not necessarily what is needed going forward in THIS age. The role is much bigger and more nuanced than just being a fighter, even if fightng battles was something that it called for during Thor's time in it. She also lacks any real connection to Midgard. She was raised in Heven most of her life, and when she came to this universe, she promptly ran off with the GotG, rather than stick to Midgard. So she's got no ties to Earth, no relationships there, no history, nothing, and that connection to Midgard is a key element. (Loki's got both Zelma and Verity acting as his 'Jane' link to Midgard, in addition he's just generally got a lot more history there, and out of everyone in Asgard, he seems to 'get' modern Midgard the best, even if it is a relatively recent development) And the War god position is open, still, after Bill went off to do his own thing, so.... also, I don't think people choose their own roles, they fall into them. Either specifically granted them (like Odin giving his role as King to Thor), inherit them like Sif did, or they just display the right qualities to just kind of fall into them on their own, probably without even realizing it until later. So if Angela (or Loki for that matter) wants to role of the Champion and is actively trying to get it, I don't think that will work. She may try to get that role, but end up the Goddess of War. Meanwhile, Loki could just fall into the role without anyone realizing, until later (I think he already has, actually)

But yeah, I was hoping we'd see Loki this arc, but looks like maybe not. But the arc did open with that scene of Loki helping Thor up, and that had some strong foreshadowing vibes, so....

Angela as a counterpoint would work well, since her style and Loki's are both different from Thor's but also different from each other's. There are two big hurdles with the role transfer: acceptance from the characters and acceptance from the fans. Both can be at least partially address by having good counterexamples that prove that whoever ends up with X Role is somehow correct. I suspect / expect that part of this story has to be about how there's no singular correct way to fulfill a role and that as the needs of the role change, the best person for the role is the one that best suits the changed needs. All of Cates's work on Thor so far (and basically the whole of his oeuvre) is about change and how failing to adapt and change with changing situations leads to bad results.

I do think that the new Norns will have something to do with the permanence of role shifts. I think it will become apparent that the sort of chaotic boundaries of the story shape of the Asgardians right now is due to the absence of fate curation. Once there are fates again, things might become (ostensibly?) "locked in." I think part of the reason that Thor has yet to really face consequences for being bad at things is that with no Fate, the Odinforce more or less just squishes things to make them work out...ish. The only one to face mythological-level consequences was Blake...and that was explicitly an echo of previous mythological-level punishment and felt rather regressive.

[Raye]

yeah. like i just think Thor (and a lot of the readers) are focusing on the wrong things when it comes to Thor's successor, which is going to make accepting Loki in the role difficult. Tho you can understand why. I mean, first of all, the characters (except maybe Loki, with his stories focus) are looking at things from within the story, rather than outside. Sure they are gods, but still, to them, this is just life, so they probably aren't thinking of these as narrative roles, where things like 'has a character flaw' or 'has a sibling that hates them' are important, they think of it more in terms of a job that needs doing. And if you were in Thor's shoes, your first thought, once you came to accept that you did need someone to replace you in your old job (don't think he's QUITE there yet, but suspect that's what Angela and Freyja will get him to do) would be that it should be someone very similar to you. If they are doing the same job they should have the same qualities, right? It seems logical. But if you step back and look at the big picture from outside the story, the first thing that becomes apparent is that people who stepped into other roles aren't necessarily a lot like their predecessors, personality wise. Sif isn't like Heimdall, Balder isn't like Karnilla, Thor isn't like Odin, Blake isn't like Loki in a lot of ways. So why would we expect Thor's replacement to be a carbon copy of Thor, if that's not holding true for other roles? And when you look at it in terms of narrative rather than job, those other qualities that technically have no bearing on being able to fulfill the duties of the job suddenly become WAY more important. You can't tell a story that has the same shape as what came before without certain qualities that have zero bearing on their ability to be good in the job. In fact, some of these qualities could make the job harder. But the story falls apart if the champion isn't struggling to address a character flaw, or torn between loyalties to Asgard and Midgard, if they aren't butting heads with the All Father over the correct course of action, if they don't have a nemesis trying to thwart them at every turn, etc. And maintaining the shape of the story is the part that's actually important, not doing the job. or in particular, how the job gets done.

I am just saying, I know it may look like they are going to do Jane again, or Angela, Bill, etc. but while I do think they could, technically, do the job well, they are lacking the bigger picture story elements that make Loki a better fit, despite not being very much like Thor at all, and he will likely struggle more to do the actual job. (but that will be a more interesting story than someone who takes to it naturally) Of the choices, Jane probably fits the best besides Loki, but they already told that story, and I don't think they will do it again, especially not so soon. So i am not too worried about what the previous issue teased in regards to her or Angela, though they may kinda run with it for a bit in the next few issues, because that will be the best way to show what is needed to fill the role this time around. This isn't something they should just unload on people in an exposition dump, they should show us why, and that may mean having another character attempt to fill the role, but it won't work.

And yeah, I think anther aspect is that the world changed, and that requires the story to be updated. I think Asgard adapting to a changing world is the entire purpose of these periodic role shifts. Thor took on the role just prior to Viking Age, and his qualities were perfectly well suited to that point in history. But now? maybe not so much. If Thor himself won't change, it needs to pass on to someone else who is better suited for the new era. I can't picture Cates giving us a story where the end message ends up being that it's best to just, not move forward in life, and to keep doing the same thing, forever, and never ever shake things up and make changes to the system when the world progresses. Because that is essentially what it would be saying, if either Thor went back to doing his old thing, or they got a carbon copy replacement. It's a shitty message.

Having the norns be the key to locking people into roles would make sense, especially since it seemed to be the case that characters, but Loki in particular, had a REALLY hard time leaving roles before, even when they desperately wanted out of them. Replacements if they happened were usually temporary, and usually only for the 'job' part of things, they weren't true replacements. so there does seem to be an element of characters being locked, perhaps unwillingly, to a role, and the Norns would be the most logical reason for that. We'll have to see in this final issue of Valkyries if these kiddos are the new Norns. Some of the dialogue seemed to suggest a new pantheon separate from Asgard, but... i dunno, it's 3 girls, raised by Karnilla. They seem very Norn like.

[JudicatorPrime]

I finally got around to watching the Disney+ series. As someone who never really cared much for Loki, I must say that I was pleasantly surprised. Better than that: I actually like it! I eagerly await Season 2.

[Yoruno]

Still can't believe my luck. All the new Marvel series minifigures were sold out in my local Lego shop, so I went to Kids World without much hope, and look what I got! They only had three left, and they were exactly what I was looking for!
20210905_131639.jpg
20210905_183857.jpg
The second one looks like "We're opening a shelter for homeless Variants - please donate"

[Raye]

heh, nice! I haven't even tried to get any of the minifigs myself, but they look cute!

And glad you liked the show! I've noticed lately the discourse around the show has gotten.... divisive and intense. People really take their ships seriously, i guess. And some are like, dislike one thing, whole thing is trash and must be destroyed. (not just with Loki, with lots of things, but still) So yeah, I guess i should have expected it but ended up with one of those fandoms. sigh. I mean, I had some aspects of the show i wasn't hot on, and yeah I would have preferred Mobius as a romantic interest, or hell, just not Sylvie, but I still liked it overall. I don't get how people can take the attitude of disliking one thing in a show/book/whatever means the whole thing is garbage, how do you end up liking anything at all in that case?

anyway, i got a new phone, and it had a different dimension screen from my old one, so I made myself a new background, from an Olivier Coipel variant cover from ages ago that I've just always really liked:


https://imgur.com/bHyJwj7

Use it if you like, if your phone is of a similar size. I had to extend it up some from the original, though i did a bit of a rough job of it, since it's mostly gonna be covered anyway.

Kinda sad that last issue, instead of drawing Loki like this again, he tried to ape how Klein draws him, and now he seems to be doing no more Thor covers, so, oh well.