Loki Appreciation 2021

[Habis]

My thought was that if you wanted to bring in Sigyn after literally 25 years of absence and only 18 total appearance in nearly 60 years of publication, the real opportunity to do so is to make her address that, at least a little. Out of universe, she has been missing, so sure seems like in-universe, she's been missing. And the reintroduction of the Venom Prison also lends itself to a Sigyn reintroduction, if they wanted to go that direction. And out of everyone in the Marvel Universe that could help someone who was stuck in a hole and ignored for years get revenge on the person who left her there? Blake hates Loki most.

But as I indicated above, leaving her as a "woman scorned" trope would be a complete lost opportunity and there's zero reason to bring her back if that's the case, and negative reason to bring her back just to reintroduce a dated, problematic story trope that we've basically all moved on from. So she would need to develop through letting go of her hate and desire for revenge...and that's a fairly large story commitment for a character that nearly no one knows, especially when the cast of characters is already fairly huge.

I *really* like the observation that the "God of Lies" title is as much or more the prison as the snake and cave are. And it's a prison Loki is, in some ways (see Thor's ask of him in the latest issue) still trying to escape.

Sygin has been presented as forgiving beyond reason. She was tricked into marrying Loki, Odin refused to annul the marriage, and Loki, after sleeping with her against her will, got bored and basically abandoned her. She tried to make things work between them, and he manipulated her for his own ends...

I think it would make sense for Sygin to have finally become fed up with all the crap she has been made to go through both by Loki and Odin, leave Asgard and settle in some other dimension. I don't think she would seek revenge, she never seemed vengeful, but I can see her meeting Loki and Thor by accident and telling them she doesn't want to be around other Asgardians ever again...

[Raye]

Marvel just posted this:



Personally, I would have flipped the order around, if we assume #1 is the best, and would have swapped out President Loki (which i just kinda consider an extension of his modern look, even tho i do think he looked good in a suit... or more specifically, a waistcoat) with Kid Loki. tho with Kid Loki then you have to kinda get into the original costume on which it was based, but I think Kid Loki wore it better.

And yeah, I just didn't see Sigyn as being vengeful, which is why I don't see that scenario happening either. But frankly, I just don't see any scenario involving her to be very likely. But most of all, I don't think she is going to be brought back for her own sake. It's a very tiny fringe that seems to have latched on to her recently for whatever reason in fan fic circles, (I guess? I dunno, i don't really follow fic stuff, just know i have seen more people around lately who have this sort of fanon based view of the character. but I am talking canon here, not fanon.) and just, realistically, it ain't gonna happen that she's going to get a story where she is the focus. It's been too long, and she was too minor of a character. It would also create a lot of baggage for Loki, which could work either for or against, depending on how complicated they want Loki's personal life to be. It's possible, but would need some kind of solid plot reason that will almost certainly be linked to Loki in some way, and she would essentially be just a supporting character in what would ultimately be Loki's story. He's the character with the most ties to her, and the character most people actually care about, so the story would be mainly about his side of things most likely. But her relationship to Loki, and how toxic it was NEEDS to be addressed, she can not come back without commenting on that, and that could just end up bogging down the story they really want to tell, so i could see them just leaving her in limbo so as to not have to get into it.

[Raye]

Loki won 2 People's Choice awards, one for best series, and one for best actor:

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com...i-all-win-big/

Maybe this will shut up that annoying vocal fringe that despise the show for stupid reasons (or reason, singular. a baffling thing i have noticed is lot of them seem to think that one flaw makes the whole thing awful, and then they harp on that one thing endlessly. I dunno how they find ANYTHING they enjoy, if they expect absolute perfection, or focus intensely on the things they didn't like. Everything has flaws, or at least things you wish had gone differently. Like, Sylvie wasn't exactly my favorite, especially the romance angle, but I still liked the show overall, the positives outweigh the negatives for me.) and like to pretend they are the majority. This demonstrates they are not, since People's Choice is voted on by fans. But it probably won't.

also, Iron Studios has a new Alligator Loki statue:



https://ironstudios.com/product/alli...rt-scale-1-10/


Anyway... I've been thinking the past couple days, about the most recent issue of Thor, plus that weird line from Valkyrie about Loki being king... so, Thor 19 was frustrating because he regressed again. Once again neglecting his duties as King, brushing aside Sif's concerns once again, and instead tackling things himself, neglecting Asgard as a whole. It's just frustrating because it seemed in issue 18 he seemed to finally get it, he delegated things to Loki/Throg, as he should as king, but now he seems unwilling to see if they (mostly Throg, at least as far as the hammer goes, since Loki was just the idea guy) are successful on their own, instead trying to track down Mjolnir on his own. It almost feels like the issues are out of order. And the way he talked to Sif was frankly shocking, and i was disappointed in him. I get that he's distressed by everything that is going on, but still. So here's the thought. He told Sif to see to things in Asgard, but like, it was Loki in issue 18 that basically did what Thor should have done, he's the one that came up with the plan that someone else would enact. What if her seeing to things ends up putting Loki on the throne, even if it is only temporary? Thor is apparently unwilling to do his job, he said as much himself. But someone needs to do it, and while it might be Sif herself, there was that tease in Valkyrie, and the fact that Loki basically did Thor's job in issue 18. Only in regards to one task, but still. It might be interesting to see Sif and the rest of Asgard be forced to take the throne away from Thor, because he's just not doing his job, and things need to be done with or without his input. It could end up being a fight for the throne since Angela has also threatened to take it from him. So we have Thor just flatly refusing to do his job, telling Sif to do it, Angela threatening a coup, and Loki making vague hints in Valkyrie. Just saying...

Now, my preference would be for Thor to learn to fill the role, I think there's still lots of story potential with Thor as king, and I am against regression on principle, so I don't want him to just go back to his old role. But, you could make some story out of having roles needing to be earned, rather than just trusting that someone without the temperament will grow into the role. Maybe Thor is just always going to be a BAD king. (if so, then Loki kinda gets to say 'i told you so' to like, everyone. even tho yes, Loki's way of going about proving that was FAR from ideal back in his villain days. but... he did end up being correct, Thor was not suited to be king) Maybe the role should go to someone who is actually good at it. Not saying that has to be Loki, I would still prefer he take on the role of Champion, but... of the potential candidates put forth so far, he's probably the best suited. Angela is too harsh and war like, Sif would be good, but has her own duties to attend to... Loki's already ruling his own kingdom, and though he had a rough beginning (and honestly, as we have discussed before, not sure how much that solo that was cut short counts, since it is becoming increasingly obvious it was cancelled because it badly conflicted with Cates' story, and this may be another instance of that) I can't deny there is some support for him stepping into the king role, if only temporarily. I know some people will look at his past and just assume he'd run the place into the ground, but I am not so sure about that, after his character development over the past 10 years. He's smart, good at looking at the big picture, has the magical skills to fix magics that are failing... tho my hope is that it is temporary, he steps in out of necessity, either at Sif's insistence, or because he just sees the need, or Asgard will fall apart. Still a coup, but... And he ends up doing a good job. which shows Thor how it's supposed to be done, and then Thor takes over, after learning at long last that he has to move forward and not keep doing things as if he were still in his old role, and Loki is made Champion. That way all the foreshadowing still fits.

[Riimi]

I only became aware of some of the Loki (tv) bashing a day or so ago -- I'm not active on Twitter, which is where it seems (?) to be most prevalent. Reddit seems to like the show, which makes me think that the bashers are a vocal minority. I think some are legitimately upset about a lack of good rep, and I think others are using that as justification to support their favorite ship (Loki/Mobius). Shipping wars tend to turn notoriously toxic. I'd wager that most of the people complaining enjoyed the show at like an 85% level (guesstimating), but feel like if this one thing they really want happened, they'd enjoy it at 100%. Since they got so close to achieving their desire, some number feel entitled to it. As a result, the show is "ruined' for them.

Anyways, I was also thinking about Thor. I'm less certain after seeing some of the more recent solicits that this is going to happen, but I originally thought Thor was actually going to die (only to shortly return to life). For one, it cheapens the prophecy that he's been running from if he doesn't die. There's also the old Norse Myth about how Odin hung himself from a tree for nine days, travelling in and out of death, to gain wisdom. Thor has shown himself to seriously need some wisdom, and a sacrifice would tie into him filling the role of All Father. There's also the whole Loki being allfather thing that Raye mentioned.

So, how I figure this would happen is that Thor and Loki plotted something together last time they talked (the scene cut away, so we don't know what they discussed). Thor would tell Loki the prophecy and ask how he could avoid it, and Loki would be like, "Hmm, it's probably just easier to die and come back from the dead." Loki has cheated death many times himself, so this would be the perfect place for him to intercede. Maybe both of them have to do something to make it work, and Loki gets tempted to renege on his side of the bargain once he becomes All Father, only to show how he's changed by going through with it.

However, I'm not sure why Thor would bring an army with him to fight Thanos if he planned on dying -- it seems like it would needlessly endanger people. Also, the fight right now is solicited to take several issues, meaning the fight should be impactful. I just don't know if the pacing works out. Maybe Loki suggested a plan and Thor hated it, so he's determined to still try to fight his way to victory (which has kinda been his whole problem).

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Whenever I reread the Agent of Asgard series, this theme plays during the King Loki scenes. No idea why but I just thought it was a fun reference.

"Masterful" is a audio play by Big Finish productions. It's supposed to celebrate the Master's 50th anniversary. Big Finish does audio plays both licensed like Doctor Who and original content.

[Raye]

heh nice. that reminds me, i need to add some songs to my big huge playlist... but what to pick for Thor being an idiot?

Anyway, look who got included with the good guys. sort of.:




Also interesting that they went with Miles rather than Peter. And no Cap is surprising. Tho i guess they can release expansions and whatnot in the future if is successful. Overall, the starting lineup is heavy on the magic for sure so seems to be, each player gets their own special game board, dice, cards and tokens and... they battle each other, i guess.

I only became aware of some of the Loki (tv) bashing a day or so ago -- I'm not active on Twitter, which is where it seems (?) to be most prevalent. Reddit seems to like the show, which makes me think that the bashers are a vocal minority. I think some are legitimately upset about a lack of good rep, and I think others are using that as justification to support their favorite ship (Loki/Mobius). Shipping wars tend to turn notoriously toxic. I'd wager that most of the people complaining enjoyed the show at like an 85% level (guesstimating), but feel like if this one thing they really want happened, they'd enjoy it at 100%. Since they got so close to achieving their desire, some number feel entitled to it. As a result, the show is "ruined' for them.

Twitter and I have seen it on tumblr. which i mostly just use for like, looking at nature photography and stuff these days, but the fandom type stuff crops up now and then. Yeah I am sure most people enjoyed it, but it seems the people who enjoyed it mostly just are content to wait for next season, and the active discussion has become this torrent of negativity, at least in some circles. And over the stupidest stuff. I understand being disappointed about the representation stuff. but... I wasn't actually expecting that much on that front so... I think people had just gotten their hopes up too high there. But some are treating it as like, an attack almost, which is weird to me. I don't think there was any maliciousness behind it, just... not wanting to rock the boat i guess. Maybe next season. And yeah, whenever shipping wars start, it's bound to get toxic. Just a shame, cus there's so much more to the show. Oddly, though that seems to be one of the complaints. That the show wasn't solely focused on Loki, 100% of the time, so... fail. Even tho that's fairly common for shows that have a central character. Like Wandavision had lots of stuff with Darcy, and Jimmy etc. Or like, Buffy wasn't ONLY about Buffy, all the Scoobies got development too, etc. You need a plot as a framework, and I think the plot we got still gave Loki plenty of room to shine, while also advancing some larger MCU stuff.

Anyways, I was also thinking about Thor. I'm less certain after seeing some of the more recent solicits that this is going to happen, but I originally thought Thor was actually going to die (only to shortly return to life). For one, it cheapens the prophecy that he's been running from if he doesn't die. There's also the old Norse Myth about how Odin hung himself from a tree for nine days, travelling in and out of death, to gain wisdom. Thor has shown himself to seriously need some wisdom, and a sacrifice would tie into him filling the role of All Father. There's also the whole Loki being allfather thing that Raye mentioned.

So, how I figure this would happen is that Thor and Loki plotted something together last time they talked (the scene cut away, so we don't know what they discussed). Thor would tell Loki the prophecy and ask how he could avoid it, and Loki would be like, "Hmm, it's probably just easier to die and come back from the dead." Loki has cheated death many times himself, so this would be the perfect place for him to intercede. Maybe both of them have to do something to make it work, and Loki gets tempted to renege on his side of the bargain once he becomes All Father, only to show how he's changed by going through with it.

However, I'm not sure why Thor would bring an army with him to fight Thanos if he planned on dying -- it seems like it would needlessly endanger people. Also, the fight right now is solicited to take several issues, meaning the fight should be impactful. I just don't know if the pacing works out. Maybe Loki suggested a plan and Thor hated it, so he's determined to still try to fight his way to victory (which has kinda been his whole problem).

I do think there's definitely going to be some kind of loophole in the prophecy. and definitely think there has to be a sacrifice for wisdom, but I think the sacrifice seems like it will be Mjolnir/Thor's soul. It's not much of a meaningful sacrifice if it's something like faking his death, it has to be giving up something he sincerely values, and for Thor, that's Mjolnir/his old role. Which is why I found Thor's behaviour in 19 frustrating, because it seemed like he understood this when he left Mjolnir with the Avengers. I actually went into it in some depth here: https://rayegunn.tumblr.com/post/668...oophole-in-the

TLDR version, the prophecy is that Thor will 'be trapped in fire forevermore' but I think this is symbolic of the forging process. In 19, it is mentioned that the dwarves put a piece of their souls into every weapon they forged. So if Mjolnir needs fixing, that may mean re-forging. And though the dwarves are presumably not completely eradicated, the forge is done for, so Thor will likely have to do the reforging himself. Putitng a piece of his soul into the reforging of Mjolnir. Hence, trapped in fire (the forging process) forevermore.

But this king stuff and teases about a potential coup may draw out the whole handing off his old role even longer, which... I just kinda wish they'd get on with it. It feels like it might be the case that he fixes/reforges Mjolnir.... but then tries to keep it, when he should be giving it away. Maybe he gets spooked by this God of Hammers, and doesn't want it falling into wrong hands again, so just... decides he's the only one who should have it. For a while, anyway. but for the sacrifice to gain wisdom to be complete, I do think he has to hand it off to the next Champion. I also think Mjolnir may end up changing forms, to something more appropriate for it's new wielder, thus avoiding the Thanos future and the return of the God of Hammers. since both of those relied on it being a hammer, specifically, so having it transformed into a sword or spear, or staff, or just literally anything but a hammer, would avert both those things. But I am not sure if it would be directly reforged into a new form, or if it transforms itself magically for the new role holder.

[Raye]

Hope people here had a good holidays.

Loki was in Ms Marvel this week. https://screenrant.com/marvel-comics...tar-ms-marvel/

I kinda knew this was coming, but the scheduling got all screwed up, it was originally solicited for like... i dunno, earlier, so i didn't realize it was starting this week. Anyway, I checked it out, and he is only on the final page, so i presume he will be in it more next issue. beyond that, I dunno, he's not mentioned in any future solicits that I am aware of, it instead mentions a girl named Quarin, which seems to imply she is a sorta-kinda Jinn, possibly from another dimension. So not Loki responsible. But if dealing with a jinn (kinda), his 'god' status, even though it is of the Norse variety rather than anything to do with Islam, may be of use. In any case, I do not think he was behind it, this seems to have been an oops. There was a mysterious trench coat person, and we couldn't see their face, so some mystery there, but doesn't seem like Loki. May have been this Quarin. I don't think he would bother with a black trench coat, and he spoke, and there was no Asgardian font, and he said 'my god!' at one point, which Marvel is usually pretty careful to not have any of the Asgardians say, because it would not make sense. So yeah, I think he just got caught in it like everyone else. I also don't think he's like, trying to squash her with an elephant, she's just tripped and ended up in the way.

Also, solicits came out, but did not see Loki anywhere in them. However, related to the speculation above, Thor is decked out head to toe in gold, which lined up with the prophecy stuff mentioned above. BUT, somewhat disappointingly, in the Thor vs Hulk solicits, which seems to take place after this arc concludes, Thor.... has Mjolnir. :-/ I just don't like the regression happening there, he seemed to be moving forward and now they seem to be sticking him back in his old rut, that we have seen a million times before, and is preventing him from being a good king. As i said above, I mean, it may be possible that he will NEVER be a good king, he's sucked hard at it this entire run, and he's sucked at it the previous times he's temporarily taken on that role. He may just not be suited for it, and never will be. But I still don't want to see things just get reset to the old status quo, that's boring as all hell, (not saying it was boring the first time around, just that it's boring to keep doing the same thing forever) and the message that story ends up giving is a bad one, telling people to allow their lives to stagnate and to never try new things. And if he is going to make a sacrifice to gain wisdom, Mjolnir is the obvious sacrifice. Anyway, hopefully it is just another step along the way. But even I, usually perfectly fine with long, decompressed stories, am growing frustrated with how long this is taking, if so.

[Riimi]

Yeah I was going to comment basically the same thing.

I kinda feel like maybe Cates didn't want to deal with Thor being king. After all, Aaron set that up. At the same time I agree that it's regressive.

I think Thor is going to step down permanently. I think there's a good chance Loki will become all father but I'm not sure I'm as interested in that.

[Raye]

I mean, I was just into the idea of Loki stepping into Thor's role, even if it was temporary, not necessarily because I am eager to see Loki become like Thor, but because that would cement the face turn fairly solidly, and I think it could be interesting to tweak the role for changing times to be less about whacking stuff with a hammer, and more about more thoughtful solutions to problems. So I do worry that regressing Thor also means regressing Loki, which would suck. Also the stuff with Blake, it just seemed to fit nicely with that idea. Loki being the one who locked Blake away, and passed his role on to him, while kinda cruel, did potentially provide motivation for Blake to turn Loki into his nemesis, and I hope that is not wasted. If Thor instead moves into one of the other roles that has been in flux, the God of War, that may still keep things moving forward though.

But yeah, while there is support for Loki becoming king of Asgard, as i went into above, and i actually think he would probably do a decent job now that he's turned face, I just think the champion/warrior role would mean more for him in terms of character development. But I also don't think Angela would be a good queen, so from a 'what is good for Asgard' perspective, Loki may actually be the best choice. But that too feels regressive because i mean, he's been gunning for the throne for years. unsuccessfully, and with bad intent, while his intent now would probably be good, but still. I just... think shaking things up and doing the unexpected, having characters have to adapt to roles they may not be the best at, would be more interesting.

[Riimi]

Yeah, I was looking forward to it, too. But I think that may be the conflict that ended Kibblesmith's Loki -- that run seemed to be setting him up as Champion.

I think it's likely that Loki will make a decent ruler for some time in Cates' run, because having him be a bad ruler would make Thor stepping down narratively 'wrong'. It would also mean a third ruler of Asgard in a short time period, which imo would be too much rehash of the same plot. I believe Cates is trying to make Thor stepping down a case where he recognizes and accepts his own limitations. While I think trying to grow into a new role is good, sometimes you just aren't a good fit. I think it's a bit different for Thor than it is for Loki, however: Thor is a great warrior in his 'natural' role, whereas Loki was destined to lose and caused continuous harm.

I'm hoping that Blake retains the All-power even after Thor gives it up, though we shall see. There’s not necessarily any reason why he would, but I think it would be more interesting if he did.

Unfortunately, I don't foresee another book in Loki's future if he becomes All-father (though I could be wrong). Mostly, it's why I also ended up disliking the end of Agent of Asgard - I think it renders him too powerful. On the other hand, he might still struggle with some aspects of being Allfather; he just has to be a significant improvement over Thor, preferably with indications that he'll continue to improve with time. (And being an improvement over Thor wouldn't be particularly difficult at this point.)

Long term, I worry that a future writer will turn him back into a villain or just make him bad at his job. I kind of feel that the role of All-father is problematic in modern comics. It’s hard to give good reasons as to why they can’t fix things instead of Thor without making them incompetent or misguided (see the progression of writer portrayls of Odin, for instance). But I’m going to do my best not to worry about something that is still a ways in the future.

[Fanto.mx]

I'm thinking that the fate echo will come up again (because of the book) and that the "Last King of Asgard" will be true only because the position will go away. I suspect with the setup we've seen so far, in the short term, we will get a triumvirate in charge, with Angela at the top. Angela-Loki-Sif as basically Power-Plans-Info while Thor gets both his and Odin's **** together. There are two big things that need to happen to make Thor okay as king:

* Magic is currently broken, and someone has to deal with that. Basically, all of the stuff Odin did that wasn't some glorious show of power, all the behind-the-scenes stuff that he did to maintain the realm(s), has fallen apart after he left the throne and Thor is VERY ill-prepared to do such work. Loki is the obvious choice to help him, along with Odin, and Thor is going to have to ASK for their help if he's not the king (but still the all-father).

* Thor is currently broken, and at some point it's going to be enough for people to truly call him on it. Which Sif already has and she and Frigga would be the natural choices to help him.

If he's ousted from the king position but keeps his role as All-Father, by Angela taking the throne (which she has made clear that he rules at her pleasure), then that forces him to work on the above, which would make him a capable king. And also quite possibly make him decline the throne and perhaps even get rid of it. Odin and Frigga have both devolved since they split and left Asgard, and such stories would help them, as well.

TL;DR: The broken people are broken because they're currently adrift. The fixers have already been teased as people in positions to help, if only help were accepted (and asked for).

EDIT: Blake is a dark mirror of Thor and likely both a wrench in the works and a tool to be used to smack some sense into Thor.

EDIT EDIT: This depends on Angela recognizing that Thor needs to be removed from the throne temporarily and that she would also be bad at it and essentially just unlocking the door and trying real hard to not be in charge.

[Raye]

I mean to be fair, it's not like Cates run has been lacking foreshadowing Loki stepping into the champion role. There was the Loki hammer lifts (and the one in 4 also had that 'this is a story for another time' caption) and Thor saying Mjolnir shouldn't be with him, and stuff. It just seems to be sending mixed signals right now. But yeah, I do think Aaron and Kibblesmith were intending that Loki be Thor's replacement, and some of our speculation has been based on that, but Cates may be going a different direction.

Whether Loki (or whoever) is a good or bad ruler depends on where Cates wants Thor to end up and what is intended for the All-Father role. If he wants Thor to actually learn to be a good king, then it could be him stepping down and then whoever steps in (Loki and Angela being the most likely) fucks things up in a way where he has to step up and do it right. If he just wants Thor to go back to doing what he used to do, without the responsibilities of being king, then whoever steps into that role should do a good job. I could kinda see it going either way, if we stick with a singular king/queen. But splitting the duties as laid out above is an option, if we want things run effectively. That could also help with one of them being too powerful to tell good stories with, if they also split the power.

But... being a GOOD king may not be the point. I think a lot of this falls on Odin. Choosing Thor as his successor, (Thor is not first in line for the throne by birth, he was chosen. Other siblings with a better claim were passed over in his favor) before ever knowing what kind of ruler he would be, and then doing NOTHING to legitimately prepare him for the role, was stupid. It is becoming increasingly apparent the kind of magic Odin worked behind the scenes to keep things running smoothly. And yet, Thor is clueless about magic. Odin never thought to give Thor magical training, while knowing he intended to have Thor inherit a throne that required some serious magical proficiency? Not to mention training in diplomacy, delegating, and other stuff he would need to engage in as a ruler. And then there was the whole mess with Blake, and how badly he fucked up Loki... Odin being so shortsighted about Thor, as well as the other things, and Bor being an ass before him, could actually point to Thor keeping the role. Clearly fate isn't concerned with the ruler actually being EFFECTIVE, just what brings about the desired fate/story for those involved. The story may actually require that the king role be filled poorly, because the story craves drama, and a bad ruler helps create that. The All-Father role may have all the power, technically, but the story is the Champion's. Everything is set up to make THEIR story interesting, not the All-Father's. And if that is the case, then dismantling the system could be an option, but dismantling fate itself is easier said than done.

Basically, I am seeing how it could go a lot of ways, but if things get reset, I will not like that. And yeah, I do think Loki being king, especially if he inherits all the power that goes with it, could limit him as far as stories go. As I said above, the story s not the story of the All-Father, it's the story of the Champion. and I know a lot of fans are all about seeing characters be made more and more powerful, but there does come a point where they are so powerful they can only be used in a supporting role, because stories with them at the center become boring cus they can just snap their fingers and resolve everything.

oh and also I did update the playlist for last issue, and probably spilling a bit into the next (I always end up tweaking and rearranging at the end of an arc). Starting from this song down through Lying to Myself. I had thought finding songs to fit Thor being an idiot would be tough, but got some real good ones, even if the reasons i chose them are frustrating in the book. Like Master of Puppets (technically about addiction, but it kinda feels like Thor IS dealing with an addiction of sorts, even if it is not drugs like in the song. but it is one of the best metal songs ever recorded, so glad to find a place for it) and The Day I Tried to Live (about trying to do your best, and everything goes to **** instead). and Warrior, which I had been kinda saving for whoever took over for Thor, because all the terminology and everything fits, just... fit better here, for Thor being a stubborn ass. This playlist has ended up way more 80s/90s heavy than I initially anticipated but I think that's kinda fitting. but also got some very new stuff, so that's cool.

[rpmaluki]

Between Loki being a champion of Asgard or being its king/all father, I will go with the latter for practical narrative reasons. Thor as well as readers are so used to Thor being a champion that it's apparent in the character that he is ill equipped to operate in any other role than the one he's had for decades and many readers prefer that for him, the big 2 comics are about heroes beating up supervillains, not managing a kingdom, for better or for worse. Is it regressive and complacent, absolutely. I think Cates is basically telling a long winded story that points that out. It's development arc even if it's not a positive one upwardly or laterally. What I hope is that Loki doesn't suffer the same fate of writers wanting to keep him locked in a role he played for decades, undoing the last ten years or so of real forward movement development.

Secondly, the irony cannot be lost on a Loki that has the kingdom he spent decades trying to usurpe through villainous and dastardly means thrust upon him legitimately because as it turned out, he was right about Thor not being a good leader in terms of ruling a kingdom. The position of a ruler is more of a background position than the superherorics typical of these comics unless you are T'Challa and to a lesser extent Black Bolt who have managed to marry the role of champion and ruler rather easily. It would be a lot easier for someone like Loki to hold this position and even do it well enough (without any villainous subtext or mockery like in the beginning Thor:Ragnarok) because it's not what many reader are clamoring for in this part of the Marvel universe. The only snag to this happening is it would make Loki the head of two kingdoms and I'm not sure if that's doable considering the history between Jotünhem and Asgard. Loki has manged to grow quite a bit since his two deaths, being a ruler has been a challenge for him and surprisingly he's still at it, so why not up the ante by giving him Asgard for real instead of a backwater kingdom of "brute savages"? It's another way and even one with the potential longevity in cementing his present status quo of NOT being a villain. Lifting the hammer is great and all but I don't see him ever wielding it as long as Jane did while Thor continues with identity crisis.

If not the above option, then turning Asgard into a 3-head state between Angela, Thor and Loki is the way to go. Let all three share responsibilities in running Asgard, maximising their unique and individual strengths, splitting the Odin force to his three children (because no one seems to care about the others) for the betterment of Asgard and the ten realms. You can write stories that affect all three individually or as a unit as the story will dictate.

[Riimi]

I also thought there were hints in Cates run pointing towards Loki becoming the Champion, but either I misread them or he swerved. I'm thinking he might have been planning to go along at first (else why greenlight Kibblesmith's book), but changed his mind. Of course, I'm not sure we'll ever know for sure.

Yeah, I know the All-father role comes with more drawbacks narratively, but I think Loki is the more logical person for the job. Really, the biggest thing keeping him from doing a good job at being All-father was the fact that he was evil. Given the Valkyrie mini, I think it's likely that he ends up All-father by himself, because the line where he talks about it seems like foreshadowing, given what we know now. I do kinda hope that he eventually realizes that having so much power is problematic and splits it up or something, but I think initially he's going to do at least a decent job. Otherwise, it's pretty much straight into another succession crisis. I also think that Cates wants to acknowledge how Loki's changed, given how he passed on the role of God of Lies to Blake and how he's been reluctant to use trickery because he's afraid of falling back into his old role. If Loki fails, where else is Cates going to put him? I expect a future author to make him a jerk because that is pretty much required for the all father, but there's always the fear of a future writer regressing him, even if he were to become champion.

I thought of Jotunheim as well -- if not for the Valkyrie mini, I might have even passed him by because of it. I guess there are two options: he either passes on the throne of Jotunheim to someone else, or Asgard becomes an Empire. Which would freak out the Avengers and be hilarious, so I'm a fan. And all Loki wants is for Stark to supply Asgard with a 5G network. (I'm not super serious about this but it's a fun idea.)

[rpmaluki]

I have not read Valkyries, what exactly did Loki say?

Logically, Loki has more capacity to rule that be a traditional hero if one looks past his major character flaws of being a villain for so long. Looking at his stories in the last few years, they've mainly centered on him trying out being a hero within the confines of his mental and emotional development, trying to convince other heroes that he's changed and to an extent can be like them. It's like Loki wanting to join their super secret superhero club and he's making himself jump through these hoops but it's not really working. Kibblesmith was probably the process of making Loki succeed in his endeavour before his story got cut at the knees and now Loki is maybe in flux again. Giving him the All Father gig is as different as the hero one.

They are both temporary but the former has potential to last a long while yet, even if there's no writer actively using Loki. It progresses his story vs keeping him in limbo. It not as glamorous is being champion but being the all father will not preclude Loki from having his little adventures while watching over the ten realms. He's already shown his he's capable acting in the interest of the realms even if his actions themselves aren't great. It reminds me of MCU Hela when she pointed out how Loki was a lot more like Odin than Thor and I think exploring Loki's rulership will be a lot more interesting than anything else.