Team DC Villains vs Team Marvel Villains

[choptop]

Just to point out Maxwell Lord at full power owned WW with a thought and was granting wishes world wide at the same time

[The Drunkard Kid]

Anyone either fast enough to dodge or durable enough not to immediately die from Kurse stands a decent chance of being able to grab one of the elf's black hole grenades in a 1v1, if they get into melee range.

Of course, closing in isn't going to be a walk in the park, considering that Kurse is fully capable of chucking one of those suckers in between them and letting it pull away anyone that can't fly, teleport, or tether themselves sufficiently. Zod probably could manage, but he's still getting used to his relatively brand new powers so it's possible that he might flub it in some manner. I kinda wanna see 'em sit down and chat, considering that they have somewhat similar goals and backgrounds, and eventually got turned into moderately gigantic monsters.

[big_adventure]

Just to point out Maxwell Lord at full power owned WW with a thought and was granting wishes world wide at the same time

That required stuff that is most definitely not standard equipment. He needed the special satellite and the surrounding infrastructure to "touch" everyone all at once.

[choptop]

That required stuff that is most definitely not standard equipment. He needed the special satellite and the surrounding infrastructure to "touch" everyone all at once.

That was just to get the wishes world wide at one's I see no reason to believe he would go back down to base power if he wasn't in contact with the satellite 24/7 at least not right away didnt the camera or something brack in the end and it didn't matter?

[big_adventure]

That was just to get the wishes world wide at one's I see no reason to believe he would go back down to base power if he wasn't in contact with the satellite 24/7 at least not right away didnt the camera or something brack in the end and it didn't matter?

He had already used the power by then. The way his power worked was perhaps the only thing "consistent" in the movie: he needs physical contact, someone asks for a wish, he explicitly, consciously grants it and takes something in return. Once the deal is made, the person who made the deal can turn the wish back in for a refund. But the initial wish and stuff needs all of those requirements. The whole reason he sets himself up as president is to get access to the satellite to be able to (this hurts to say) physically touch everyone all at once and get something from each of them (some of their health, effectively, as he was dying) in exchange for their wishes.

[choptop]

He had already used the power by then. The way his power worked was perhaps the only thing "consistent" in the movie: he needs physical contact, someone asks for a wish, he explicitly, consciously grants it and takes something in return. Once the deal is made, the person who made the deal can turn the wish back in for a refund. But the initial wish and stuff needs all of those requirements. The whole reason he sets himself up as president is to get access to the satellite to be able to (this hurts to say) physically touch everyone all at once and get something from each of them (some of their health, effectively, as he was dying) in exchange for their wishes.

He got a power boost in the end by reaching a lot of people by the satellite but didn't seem to need constent contact to keep the power and I see no reason to believe he would lose he's powers right away at least basically he doesn't need the satellite ones he is at full wish power to to stay at that level therefore he doesn't need it in this rumble to be at that level of power.

[big_adventure]

He got a power boost in the end by reaching a lot of people by the satellite but didn't seem to need constent contact to keep the power and I see no reason to believe he would lose he's powers right away at least basically he doesn't need the satellite ones he is at full wish power to to stay at that level therefore he doesn't need it in this rumble to be at that level of power.

At the end of the movie he doesn't have any powers anymore: he gave them back when he gave up his wish to BE the stone.

I don't think I was being confusing when I explained this: his power lets him grant a verbally-requested wish to someone he's in physical contact with, and take something back. Once the wish is granted and the price extracted, he doesn't need to be in contact (OBVIOUSLY) to maintain the price he's extracted. On the other hand, he has absolutely no power to stop the wisher from renouncing the wish, and when they do, he loses the extracted price immediately. And, of course, he gives up the power himself when he renounces his own wish at the end.

But he doesn't start with a satellite and a broadcast room up and running here, and the other team isn't going to let him have one built. So here, even if he has the wishy power, he still needs someone to physically touch him, for them to verbalize a wish that he can then grant, for him to understand the request, for him to consciously determine the price he'll extract, for him to consciously grant the wish and for the wish to take effect. Even that is fast but it's not instant.

Until all of that happens, he's a middle-aged adult male in average-ish physical condition. Here, you have the quicker-than-Thor Hela filling the air with blades that go through Asgardians like they are made of kleenex, and Thanos who only has to think "no more stupid powers" or "BUBBLES." This isn't going to go well for not-so-Miracle Max.

[choptop]

At the end of the movie he doesn't have any powers anymore: he gave them back when he gave up his wish to BE the stone.

I don't think I was being confusing when I explained this: his power lets him grant a verbally-requested wish to someone he's in physical contact with, and take something back. Once the wish is granted and the price extracted, he doesn't need to be in contact (OBVIOUSLY) to maintain the price he's extracted. On the other hand, he has absolutely no power to stop the wisher from renouncing the wish, and when they do, he loses the extracted price immediately. And, of course, he gives up the power himself when he renounces his own wish at the end.

But he doesn't start with a satellite and a broadcast room up and running here, and the other team isn't going to let him have one built. So here, even if he has the wishy power, he still needs someone to physically touch him, for them to verbalize a wish that he can then grant, for him to understand the request, for him to consciously determine the price he'll extract, for him to consciously grant the wish and for the wish to take effect. Even that is fast but it's not instant.

Until all of that happens, he's a middle-aged adult male in average-ish physical condition. Here, you have the quicker-than-Thor Hela filling the air with blades that go through Asgardians like they are made of kleenex, and Thanos who only has to think "no more stupid powers" or "BUBBLES." This isn't going to go well for not-so-Miracle Max.

I know he lost the power in the end but he has power in the rumble I assume. All he needed the satellite for was to fill up on wishes the more wishes he granted the more powerful he got he is at full power for the rumble unless op says different he wasn't physically touching anyone to grant a wish in the end he didn't need to hell he didn't even need the camera and he definitely didn't need it to put WW down with a thought. Like I keep saying I see no reason to believe he will go down to base power with out the satellite or consistent flow of wishing I mean maybe the power runs out sooner or later but we really don't know when.

[big_adventure]

I know he lost the power in the end but he has power in the rumble I assume. All he needed the satellite for was to fill up on wishes the more wishes he granted the more powerful he got he is at full power for the rumble unless op says different he wasn't physically touching anyone to grant a wish in the end he didn't need to hell he didn't even need the camera and he definitely didn't need it to put WW down with a thought. Like I keep saying I see no reason to believe he will go down to base power with out the satellite or consistent flow of wishing I mean maybe the power runs out sooner or later but we really don't know when.

I suppose you'll need the OP to explain their intention.

That said, yes, he absolutely needed the satellite to (this hurts to say) physically touch everyone to grant wishes and get his payback. That was what he was using against WW: the force he'd ripped off from people. But also remember that he was left with nothing even before he gave up his own power: everyone on earth had already renounced their wishes, meaning he had nothing-ish left.

Going further, there really should have been many non-reversible wishes simply because the wisher was after KO'd or killed by other wishers. But again, this film wasn't exactly "well-written." This is what happens when you employ Geoff Johns and Patty Jenkins as co-writers I suppose. Patty should stick to directing, and Geoff should stick to, I dunno, rebooting things?

[choptop]

I suppose you'll need the OP to explain their intention.

That said, yes, he absolutely needed the satellite to (this hurts to say) physically touch everyone to grant wishes and get his payback. That was what he was using against WW: the force he'd ripped off from people. But also remember that he was left with nothing even before he gave up his own power: everyone on earth had already renounced their wishes, meaning he had nothing-ish left.

Going further, there really should have been many non-reversible wishes simply because the wisher was after KO'd or killed by other wishers. But again, this film wasn't exactly "well-written." This is what happens when you employ Geoff Johns and Patty Jenkins as co-writers I suppose. Patty should stick to directing, and Geoff should stick to, I dunno, rebooting things?

So are you saying the satellite works like the Makyo Star basically? With out it he go's down to base power?

[big_adventure]

So are you saying the satellite works like the Makyo Star basically? With out it he go's down to base power?

Not even a little bit.

Again: Lord needs to be in physical contact to grant wishes and take back what he steals in return.

So: if he doesn't have that specific setup, he cannot grant wishes and cannot steal stuff back in return.

Lord without any special boosts or wishes or anything else is just a not-especially-fit middle aged man. He cannot grant wishes that are not made to him, and he can't do it faster then the time it takes for someone to say the wish, for him to understand it, for him to come up with payment, and for him to bind the wish verbally.

Also: he doesn't have all of the powerups that he had for like 5 minutes during the climax scene of the film. He lacks those buffs because everyone on Earth took back their wishes.

Also also: to be pedantic, he has no powers at all in his canon form, because he also gave up the power at the end of the film.

I would guess that the OP intends Max to have the ability to grant wishes, not that he has whatever weird collection of whatever he stole from a bunch of the world's population that he only had for a couple of minutes in the film and then lost right in that film. It has nothing at all to do with "needs the sat to maintain power that's already granted." It's that his default state is not to have those powers, and without the sat, he has no way to get them in that same fashion. If the DCEU folks had time, sure, Zod (for example) could touch him, state a wish, Max could state what he wants in return, Max could say "wish granted, yo" and then the appropriate delay for it to take effect. Here, he doesn't have anything like that time because Thanos literally just has to think "no mouths" or "BUBBLES" and it's over LONG before all of that can happen. Hela just has to throw a cloud of blades that punch through Asgardians like a laser through cream cheese and that ALSO ends Max's participation long before he can do anything of the sort.

To give you an analogy: Dr. Doom has powerjacked Galactus, Aron, the Silver Surfer and others over the years. He's also lost every single one of those amps. With prep, could he powerjack someone again? Sure, maybe, depends on the being and the tools at his disposal. Does he get those powers at the beginning of a Rumble? Absolutely not, unless the OP specifically says he does.

So, unless the OP comes in and decides that Max gets whatever powers he had during the sat scene, and then hopefully defines exactly what those are (because they REALLY aren't clearly defined), it's not particularly useful for the guy, and he's not particularly useful in this fight.

[big_adventure]

As an aside: I went back to the OP (hadn't checked it in a week) and yes, Max has the ability to grant wishes (obvious really), but it doesn't seem that Max has any powers from pre-granted wishes.

[choptop]

All the Satellite was was a tool to get as meny wishes as possible other then that it has nothing to do with the power up he got at the end and nothing in the movie says otherwise really all the satellite did was Help him contact as many people at one time as possible destroying it wouldn't make him go back to base power

[big_adventure]

All the Satellite was was a tool to get as meny wishes as possible other then that it has nothing to do with the power up he got at the end and nothing in the movie says otherwise really all the satellite did was Help him contact as many people at one time as possible destroying it wouldn't make him go back to base power

You really don't seem to be reading what I wrote.

Per the OP, he has wish-granting powers, not power taken by granting wishes.

He cannot contact people to make deals with them without touching them. The satellite let him (please don't make me keep typing this, I vomit a little in my mouth each time) physically touch everyone at once because, hell, I dunno, the 80's were stupid. I was born in 72, I know what I'm talking about there.

No matter how he touches people, once the wishes are made, they are effective unless the wisher renounces the wish. But here, all of the wishes already made are gone - they have already been renounced.

So here, at the start, he has the ability to grant wishes and take some crap in return from the wishers. He does not have all of the previously granted wishes in play, because they are not there. Also, the power he used against Diana was people wishing for the forces he was dealing. Again, he doesn't have that here.

Therefore, he would need someone to come to him, touch him, verbally speak to tell his ordinary-speed middle-aged-man ears and brain with no particular skill and no particular reaction-speed feats a wish, he has to decide what he wants in return, has to speak it, has to have the bargain accepted, and has to grant the wish consciously.

And he has to do all of that before being shishkabobed by Hela or made into bubbles by Thanos, two beings who are vastly quicker than he is and who require zero setup to do either of those things. Loki can also teleport next to him with the Tesseract and mind control him with the GSOD (or just stab him through the heart) but that, while faster than Max's options, is still slower than the first two choices.

Nobody is saying that Max's wishes go away when he's no longer in contact. What everyone is saying is that Max won't have the time required to grant even a single wish before dying, and he has zero defense against dying here.

[choptop]

I agree with you for the most part all I'm saying is he didn't need the Satellite to operate at the level just to to get to that level.