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  1. #31
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Merriam-Webster and others have a definition of an era as, "a period identified by some prominent figure or characteristic feature", "a memorable or important date or event" or "a fixed point in time from which a series of years is reckoned" or "a stage in development (as of a person or thing)".
    (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/era)

    I think the word "era" makes sense if you describe a period that has come and gone, that's never coming back. Based on that, it doesn't really make sense to call runs in Spider-Man "eras".

    Eras in Spider-Man:
    -- AF#15 to ASM#28, i.e. High School Peter. That's gone and that's never coming back in 616 Marvel. At least not without a substantial reboot and change.
    -- ASM#122 to ASM#290. Gwen dies, the end of the Lee-Romita era of innocence and the most charismatic period of Peter's supporting cast. Eventually led to Peter leaving Harry's loft and going to an apartment in Chelsea which remains his "pad" for the next 200 issues or so.
    -- The Spider-Marriage, i.e. Peter and MJ get married in ASM Annual #21 and that era defines Spider-Man for 20 years and literally still defines and colors Spider-Man because the continuity is still defined by its absence as much as its presence.
    -- Within that, the Clone Saga and its aftermath qualifies as a sub-era. Because it was a period of such distinction and disorder which affected the titles for such a long time.
    -- JMS' run is unusual in that it feels like an era in retrospect, i.e. the last time you have a writer approach Spider-Man as a grown up adult hero with character development and change. Since JMS, no version of Spider-Man, in comics, in adaptations, has appeared with as much maturity.
    -- Of course OMD to the present is an era.

    I don't think BND, Slott, or (provisionally) Spencer's run qualifies as an era, because the stuff that happened in their runs didn't really create any changes or actions that will last or is built to last. Almost everything in Slott's run was mightily swept away in Spencer's first issue. OMD still remains the most defining story in the current era of Spider-Man far more important and consequential than anything in BND or Slott, and presumably Spencer's run for the time being.



    Your post was in fact completely vague and incoherent in terms of defining what an era was and how you categorized it, using private definitions that nobody else, here, recognized or acknowledged.
    It was in response to another poster years ago, who defined Big Time, Superior Spider-Man, Brand New Day, reboot, pre-reboot as eras.

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...diate+superior
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  2. #32
    The Superior Spider-clone SpideyClone's Avatar
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    I would say middle of the pack, some good, some bad. Some will applaud his back to basics approach, I'm not sure that's a badge of honor. 50+ issues to get to the bottom of Kindred is way too long. This tease of the new costume sounds like Spencer's own "Big Time". Let's see where it goes from there.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It was in response to another poster years ago...
    Because having an encyclopedic knowledge of every post on CBR Community especially for posters who weren't around when the previous one was made (apparent in the Join Date that's publicly mentioned on every single post here) is a realistic ask, expectation, and assumption for all of us to share.

    As is, all of us being beholden to standards set up previously as if it were part of CBR Community Charter, and not part of an ongoing ebb and flow of discussion where things change, evolve, and alter as tastes, situations, and mores evolve.

    On the whole I disagree with this poster too. It makes sense in terms of defining what was (very recent) Spider-Man continuity at the time...but it doesn't make any sense to be beholden to that schema now that you have a big picture of Slott's run and how little it actually changed and defined the continuity lastingly going forward.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Because having an encyclopedic knowledge of every post on CBR Community especially for posters who weren't around when the previous one was made (apparent in the Join Date that's publicly mentioned on every single post here) is a realistic ask, expectation, and assumption for all of us to share.

    As is, all of us being beholden to standards set up previously as if it were part of CBR Community Charter, and not part of an ongoing ebb and flow of discussion where things change, evolve, and alter as tastes, situations, and mores evolve.



    On the whole I disagree with this poster too. It makes sense in terms of defining what was (very recent) Spider-Man continuity at the time...but it doesn't make any sense to be beholden to that schema now that you have a big picture of Slott's run and how little it actually changed and defined the continuity lastingly going forward.
    The link was in my first post on this thread as well, right after I said "Interesting question. I'll update a post from an earlier thread ranking eras of the Spider-Man comics."

    There is no ask, expectation, and assumption about posters remembering a discussion from years ago.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 01-03-2021 at 10:56 AM.
    Sincerely,
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  5. #35
    Mighty Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Nick Spencer has been a fun writer in ASM so far. He has had cool and boring stories. I think he hasn't reached as high but neither as low as Dan Slott's with his best and worst stories.

    I think Nick Spencer has been hiding up too much information; by now I would like to have clearer reasons as to why Kindred does what he does. As a writer, he clearly can build up a great mystery and thrilling moments, but I've found him lacking when he has to close his storylines, rushing up the endings or giving finales that feel more like a tease for what is to come than a proper ending.

    I know this is something common on today's mainstream comicbooks, but I think some writers know how to handle it better than others, and I think Spencer has had this type of problem when dealing with decompressed storytelling, as I had that same commentary over his Captain America (Steve Rogers). His Superior Foes of Spider-Man, instead, was perfectly balanced in that regard.

    He's still on time to give a satisfactory closure to the plot dealing with Kindred, and, depending on what he plans to do about OMD, his run could be remembered, or not, for many years to come
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

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  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Merriam-Webster and others have a definition of an era as, "a period identified by some prominent figure or characteristic feature", "a memorable or important date or event" or "a fixed point in time from which a series of years is reckoned" or "a stage in development (as of a person or thing)".
    (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/era)

    I think the word "era" makes sense if you describe a period that has come and gone, that's never coming back. Based on that, it doesn't really make sense to call runs in Spider-Man "eras".

    Eras in Spider-Man:
    -- AF#15 to ASM#28, i.e. High School Peter. That's gone and that's never coming back in 616 Marvel. At least not without a substantial reboot and change.
    -- ASM#122 to ASM#290. Gwen dies, the end of the Lee-Romita era of innocence and the most charismatic period of Peter's supporting cast. Eventually led to Peter leaving Harry's loft and going to an apartment in Chelsea which remains his "pad" for the next 200 issues or so.
    -- The Spider-Marriage, i.e. Peter and MJ get married in ASM Annual #21 and that era defines Spider-Man for 20 years and literally still defines and colors Spider-Man because the continuity is still defined by its absence as much as its presence.
    -- Within that, the Clone Saga and its aftermath qualifies as a sub-era. Because it was a period of such distinction and disorder which affected the titles for such a long time.
    -- JMS' run is unusual in that it feels like an era in retrospect, i.e. the last time you have a writer approach Spider-Man as a grown up adult hero with character development and change. Since JMS, no version of Spider-Man, in comics, in adaptations, has appeared with as much maturity.
    -- Of course OMD to the present is an era.

    I don't think BND, Slott, or (provisionally) Spencer's run qualifies as an era, because the stuff that happened in their runs didn't really create any changes or actions that will last or is built to last. Almost everything in Slott's run was mightily swept away in Spencer's first issue. OMD still remains the most defining story in the current era of Spider-Man far more important and consequential than anything in BND or Slott, and presumably Spencer's run for the time being.



    Your post was in fact completely vague and incoherent in terms of defining what an era was and how you categorized it, using private definitions that nobody else, here, recognized or acknowledged.
    I think that the only thing that had stuck since the BND era is Peter being blacklisted from photography, unless Slott walked back on that change during Go Down Swinging (i still haven't read that arc but soon i will)
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  7. #37
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I think that the only thing that had stuck since the BND era is Peter being blacklisted from photography, unless Slott walked back on that change during Go Down Swinging (i still haven't read that arc but soon i will)
    He was blacklisted from photography, so Robbie made him science editor for The Daily Bugle instead before Go Down Swinging.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    He was blacklisted from photography, so Robbie made him science editor for The Daily Bugle instead before Go Down Swinging.
    But technically speaking he still is right?, i mean, i supposed that it doesn't mean much in the great scheme of things, especially when as ypu said Robbie found a way around it, but i was just trying to think about something from that era that is still around.
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  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    But technically speaking he still is right?, i mean, i supposed that it doesn't mean much in the great scheme of things, especially when as ypu said Robbie found a way around it, but i was just trying to think about something from that era that is still around.
    Peter mentions taking some photos for Jameson and so on during Spencer's run (forget which issue). And the blackballed from photography thing hasn't been mentioned in a long while.

    But at the end of the day, Peter hasn't been making a living as a photographer for quite some time. Like the last time when that was an active daily thing as an ongoing status-quo was the Howard Mackie era. JMS made him a high-school teacher, so BND merely confirms the general ongoing trend rather than actually innovate on that front.

    In any case, nothing since OMD has mattered or defined the titles the way OMD has. The biggest new character in Spider-Man since then has been Miles Morales, an Ultimate Spider-Man import and transplant rather than anything from ASM but to me while I would call Miles Morales an era defining character for Marvel since he obviously inspired and paved the way for Kamala Khan, Ironheart, Jane Thor among others...I don't think anyone can rationally argue that he's a creation or product of ASM titles or 616 Spider-Man in that time. People will argue that BND has introduced new characters and it has -- Mr. Negative, Norah Winters, Carlie Cooper and some others. But introducing new characters doesn't make something an era. Dennis O'Neill in his brief run created characters like Calypso, Madame Web, Hydro Man but nobody talks about the O'Neill era.

    If words are to mean something, and if an "era" has to have a sense of seriousness to that word, we need to be careful about using it. Otherwise, I don't know we might as well talk about the Alpha era between issue so-and-so and issue what-and-what.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Peter mentions taking some photos for Jameson and so on during Spencer's run (forget which issue). And the blackballed from photography thing hasn't been mentioned in a long while.

    But at the end of the day, Peter hasn't been making a living as a photographer for quite some time. Like the last time when that was an active daily thing as an ongoing status-quo was the Howard Mackie era. JMS made him a high-school teacher, so BND merely confirms the general ongoing trend rather than actually innovate on that front.

    In any case, nothing since OMD has mattered or defined the titles the way OMD has. The biggest new character in Spider-Man since then has been Miles Morales, an Ultimate Spider-Man import and transplant rather than anything from ASM but to me while I would call Miles Morales an era defining character for Marvel since he obviously inspired and paved the way for Kamala Khan, Ironheart, Jane Thor among others...I don't think anyone can rationally argue that he's a creation or product of ASM titles or 616 Spider-Man in that time. People will argue that BND has introduced new characters and it has -- Mr. Negative, Norah Winters, Carlie Cooper and some others. But introducing new characters doesn't make something an era. Dennis O'Neill in his brief run created characters like Calypso, Madame Web, Hydro Man but nobody talks about the O'Neill era.

    If words are to mean something, and if an "era" has to have a sense of seriousness to that word, we need to be careful about using it. Otherwise, I don't know we might as well talk about the Alpha era between issue so-and-so and issue what-and-what.
    Hmmm... how would you classified Aunt May's new job since the BND era? i mean, that has even been adapted into material outside the comics. Then again, May being more active in the work department has been a thing since Ultimate Spider-Man. Sorry for the question, but i was trying to think on something that wasn't introducing a new characther from that era.
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  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Hmmm... how would you classified Aunt May's new job since the BND era? i mean, that has even been adapted into material outside the comics. Then again, May being more active in the work department has been a thing since Ultimate Spider-Man. Sorry for the question, but i was trying to think on something that wasn't introducing a new characther from that era.
    Aunt May's activism is a thing that goes back to the Len Wein era.

    It's no innovation.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    In any case, nothing since OMD has mattered or defined the titles the way OMD has. The biggest new character in Spider-Man since then has been Miles Morales, an Ultimate Spider-Man import and transplant rather than anything from ASM but to me while I would call Miles Morales an era defining character for Marvel since he obviously inspired and paved the way for Kamala Khan, Ironheart, Jane Thor among others...I don't think anyone can rationally argue that he's a creation or product of ASM titles or 616 Spider-Man in that time. People will argue that BND has introduced new characters and it has -- Mr. Negative, Norah Winters, Carlie Cooper and some others. But introducing new characters doesn't make something an era. Dennis O'Neill in his brief run created characters like Calypso, Madame Web, Hydro Man but nobody talks about the O'Neill era.

    If words are to mean something, and if an "era" has to have a sense of seriousness to that word, we need to be careful about using it. Otherwise, I don't know we might as well talk about the Alpha era between issue so-and-so and issue what-and-what.
    It doesn't matter because fans don't want it to matter. People cheered when the Gonzales siblings and Lily disappeared from the plot. Spencer then undid Harry getting over his daddy issues as well.

  13. #43
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Thus far I'll give it a 3 out of 5 so slightly above average. I would have gone higher: 3.5 or even 4 (if OMD had actually been directly addressed in some fashion and/or if Kindred was someone other than the obvious choice) but the "ending" of Last Remains fell flat with me after a tremendous buildup....
    Last edited by Celgress; 01-03-2021 at 06:39 PM.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Thus far I'll give it a 3 out of 5 so slightly above average. I would have gone higher: 3.5 or even 4 (if OMD had actually been directly addressed in some fashion and/or if Kindred was someone other than the obvious choice) but the "ending" of Last Remains fell flat with me after a tremendous buildup....
    And that's where we hope (and maybe pray) "Last Remains: Post-Mortem" functions better as an actual ending, as opposed to an extended epilogue.
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  15. #45
    Spectacular Member JTHM's Avatar
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    I like a lot of the stuff that Spencer does, and I think that, conceptually, he's got a lot of things right. But I have rarely seen such a terrible pacing in a book for a long while. I think this last part, this whole Last Remains stuff, has dropped the book's quality in a rather exponential ways. Tons of issues, companion issues, one-shots and all for what? a story that only has a few important plot points that could have been done in way less time and with way less filler. Executed in such a way to trick the reader at the moment to make them think it's more important than it actually is. I was fine with more laid back issues from before, but when you up the stakes like in this last arc, you can't just stretch it out so thin and give so little and expect us to continue business as usual.

    TL;DR: Great ideas held back by glacial pacing. So far in the middle.

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