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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    It's not his weapons. It's his personality, relationships, role in the team and the story arcs he was a part of that made him popular. If you boil characters down to just their weapons then nobody is interesting (except for IM and BP).
    Other characters have powers too. But even non-powered characters without gadgets can be interesting. But I don't get what's so interesting about Hawkeye, at least compared to other Avengers

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Other characters have powers too. But even non-powered characters without gadgets can be interesting. But I don't get what's so interesting about Hawkeye, at least compared to other Avengers
    His personality made up for his gimmick. People liked the rogue with a heart of gold angle.

    Hank had the opposite problem. His gimmick was more interesting than his character.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 06-15-2021 at 01:22 PM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    His personality made up for his gimmick. People liked the rogue with a heart of gold angle.

    Hank had the opposite problem. His gimmick was more interesting than his character.
    Hank isn't uninteresting to me. He suffers from mental problems and an inferiority complex. He just has a lot of problematic appeareances.

    Clint's whole rogue "I don't play well with others" thing never really interested me a whole lot. I don't mind character conflict but I don't care for the "rebel without a cause" thing

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Hank isn't uninteresting to me. He suffers from mental problems and an inferiority complex. He just has a lot of problematic appeareances.

    Clint's whole rogue "I don't play well with others" thing never really interested me a whole lot. I don't mind character conflict but I don't care for the "rebel without a cause" thing
    There's a difference between being Han Solo (Hawkeye) and being Anakin Skywalker in REVENGE OF THE SITH (Hank Pym).

    The former works better as a serialized supporting superhero than the latter, even if the latter has stuff that doesn't make him uninteresting.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    There's a difference between being Han Solo (Hawkeye) and being Anakin Skywalker in REVENGE OF THE SITH (Hank Pym).

    The former works better as a serialized supporting superhero than the latter, even if the latter has stuff that doesn't make him uninteresting.
    I like Han Solo just fine, but I've never connected him to being similar to Hawkeye. But Han was like that because he was a smuggler, plus he provided a different viewpoint of the galaxy than Luke, Leia or Ben. Idk if that applies to Hawkeye

    I don't know if I'd compare Hank to Anakin either. Anakin was a whiny brat turned psychotic murder, versus a mentally unstable scientist with an inferiority complex. I don't think Hank works any less well in serialized storytelling than Clint

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Hank isn't uninteresting to me. He suffers from mental problems and an inferiority complex. He just has a lot of problematic appeareances.

    Clint's whole rogue "I don't play well with others" thing never really interested me a whole lot. I don't mind character conflict but I don't care for the "rebel without a cause" thing
    I'm just explaining why other fans choose one over the other. Hawkeye's appeal is easier to find while with Hank, you have to dig a little deeper. I'm not knocking the mental health angle, it's just easier to miss or mess up.

    Ironically the Ultimate Universe could've been a fresh start for Hank but Millar doubled down on the slap and made Hank a serial abuser.

    To me, the EMH cartoon is the best revamp. It made Hank a youthful idealist and that helped make him stand out with the other scientists. So I'd bring that back if I were handling him for Marvel.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I'm just explaining why other fans choose one over the other. Hawkeye's appeal is easier to find while with Hank, you have to dig a little deeper. I'm not knocking the mental health angle, it's just easier to miss or mess up.

    Ironically the Ultimate Universe could've been a fresh start for Hank but Millar doubled down on the slap and made Hank a serial abuser.

    To me, the EMH cartoon is the best revamp. It made Hank a youthful idealist and that helped make him stand out with the other scientists. So I'd bring that back if I were handling him for Marvel.
    I guess I can see why it's easier to identify Clint's appeal when you explain it like that. But maybe that's why I've never been drawn to him. I don't dislike him, but I don't miss him if he's not there

    As for Hank, I think the whole abuse thing is the facet of him which stands out the most to many people. I honestly don't know how Marvel can address that in an appropriate way

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I guess I can see why it's easier to identify Clint's appeal when you explain it like that. But maybe that's why I've never been drawn to him. I don't dislike him, but I don't miss him if he's not there

    As for Hank, I think the whole abuse thing is the facet of him which stands out the most to many people. I honestly don't know how Marvel can address that in an appropriate way
    retcon it. LMD robot, mind control, or the better option would have been to simply erase that choice in the aftermath of the most recent Secret Wars.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    retcon it. LMD robot, mind control, or the better option would have been to simply erase that choice in the aftermath of the most recent Secret Wars.
    Idk if everyone would agree to that though.

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I'm just explaining why other fans choose one over the other. Hawkeye's appeal is easier to find while with Hank, you have to dig a little deeper. I'm not knocking the mental health angle, it's just easier to miss or mess up.

    Ironically the Ultimate Universe could've been a fresh start for Hank but Millar doubled down on the slap and made Hank a serial abuser.

    To me, the EMH cartoon is the best revamp. It made Hank a youthful idealist and that helped make him stand out with the other scientists. So I'd bring that back if I were handling him for Marvel.
    Millar didn’t do Hank any justice that’s for sure. None of the Avengers were really shown in a positive light but Hank got the worst Millar treatment.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    retcon it. LMD robot, mind control, or the better option would have been to simply erase that choice in the aftermath of the most recent Secret Wars.
    Marvel Editorial has collectively agreed or condoned or consented not to retcon it though. If they could have they would have done so by now.

  12. #57
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    They don't need to retcon it.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    They don't need to retcon it.
    Agree...not embrace it as much...but acknowledge it as something that happened when he was having an episode.

  14. #59
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    They should address it in a way that's appropriate to the situation without sweeping in under the rug

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    They should address it in a way that's appropriate to the situation without sweeping in under the rug
    I feel like it's been addressed far more than it ever should have been. 'If you want it to heal, stop picking at it!' as grandma would say. Janet herself appears to have moved on from it, so perhaps it's time for everyone else to, and it never to be explained or mentioned again. I feel like every time it's brought up on page, it just tarnishes his character all over again.

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