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  1. #31

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    Ironically my favorite outfit was when he was plainclothes (Avengers AI) and the Wasp (Mighty Avengers).

    So im cool with either making a comeback. My intro was in the Earth's mightiest heroes cartoon where he gave off Doctor Who vibes. I'd lean into that if I was Marvel.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Mary Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I actually have read the original Avengers run by Thomas and "The Trial of Yellowjacket" (the official name for the 20 issue saga that begins with Hank slapping Janet and ends with him single-handedly defeating Egghead and the Masters of Evil) so I am not to be included in that category.
    Yep, I wasn't referring to you or anyone in this forum, but to people who only watch the movies

    It's not simply enough for Hank to be a guy doing stuff in an Avengers book for a sufficient amount of time for him to qualify as a hero again. Hank going nuts led to Ultron, a prominent and important Marvel supervillain. Hank slapping Janet is one of the greatest and most important character-driven stories in Avengers' publ. history. Janet being divorced and single led her to become team leader of The Avengers and her history with Hank is referred to in stories like UNDER SIEGE.

    So far no "redeemed Hank" story has provided moments of quite the same emotional real-estate. He was a background character in WCA which has its fans but doesn't make a dent to non-Avengers readers, neither does Avengers AI and so on. A redeemed Hank has to have a moment as important in impact as UNDER SIEGE or do something as big in heroics as creating Ultron was in villainy.
    Hank didn't create Ultron while he "went nuts" as you put it. He was genuinely trying to build a crude A.I. that would help mankind, and he was in his right mind when he did. Didn't really succeed at that though... But building Ultron can't be considered a moment of villainy. He didn't build a killer robot on purpose.

    But I think I understand what you mean as far as story goes. I thought at first that people were saying "redemption" as in an action to atone for the wrongs he has caused, willingly or not. But in fact, if I understand it right, you are saying Marvel needs to come up with a story involving Hank that would be so good as to have a permanent positive impact on the character and the readers. You are aware though that for the haters, nothing will ever work.

    Firstly, Hank is still being published. He appears in titles as a background and supporting character and he has lore that's referred to multiple times.

    It's just that Hank doesn't exactly serve as protagonist as Ant-Man in a serial ongoing...and truth be told, he never really did that. Before The Avengers, he was a character in some Tales to Astonish stories, after that he toiled in The Avengers while Cap, Hulk, Thor, Iron Man got their own books or own teams. The reason why Thomas added drama to Hank and Janet's life was because he was allowed to f--k with them in a way he couldn't with the double-shift (team-and-solo) guys like Thor, Cap, IM.
    First of all, Hank has been dead since 2015, so no, he's not published right now. He has been inserted in a few flash-backs here and there, but nothing more.

    And I don't understand the comment in bold. Because no, he doesn't. He hasn't been Ant-Man since the late 60s. I don't really think anyone here wants him to go back to being Ant-Man. I certainly don't. My favourite id for him was Giant-Man (or Goliath, I liked the blue and yellow outfit!), that's the id that he's said he's the most balanced in, the most comfortable with. Some prefer YJ, but after the movie, it's been tainted with too much bad guy vibes for my taste.

    Hank is today what he has always been, a minor superhero who is around to use as genre and lore furniture for other characters.
    Other minor superheroes have had minis or even ongoings. I don't see this as a problem per se. It's certainly not a reason not to bring him back.
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  3. #33
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    Yeah, I don't think him being a minor hero should prevent him being brought back.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Jay View Post
    But in fact, if I understand it right, you are saying Marvel needs to come up with a story involving Hank that would be so good as to have a permanent positive impact on the character and the readers.
    Exactly!!!

    It's not enough for a simple redemption, it's basically demanding that a redeemed Hank feature in an instant-classic story centered on his redemption and heroism!!!

    You are aware though that for the haters, nothing will ever work.
    It's not about appeasing the haters. The thing is not enough people have a passion for Hank to have a sufficient demand for the redeemed or heroic Hank in the first place.

    I know that a lot here might disagree with that, but basically a redeemed Hank needs to feel essential.

    To give an example...Hawkeye is not a character with baggage like Hank but basically he's a character that on paper doesn't have a lot going for him. He's an arrow guy in a team of gods and super-soldiers. He's also a knockoff of Oliver Queen. And he got married and divorced. Then Matt Fraction and David Aja wrote the Hawkeye series and none of that mattered. Hawkeye was felt to be essential because he was part of a great run.

    A redeemed and restored Hank needs to be part of a comic of similar stature to qualify. And Christos Gage...he has his fans, but he's no Matt Fraction.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    To give an example...Hawkeye is not a character with baggage like Hank but basically he's a character that on paper doesn't have a lot going for him. He's an arrow guy in a team of gods and super-soldiers. He's also a knockoff of Oliver Queen. And he got married and divorced. Then Matt Fraction and David Aja wrote the Hawkeye series and none of that mattered. Hawkeye was felt to be essential because he was part of a great run.
    None of that mattered before. Hawkeye was always a fan favorite both in The Avengers and he was great in The Thunderbolts. You had writers like KURT FREAKIN' BUSIEK and Fabian Nicieza who actually knew how to write the character as a competent ass kicker and not a hapless loser. Matt Fraction's Hawkeye has to be one of if not the most overrated Marvel work to come out in quite awhile

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    A redeemed and restored Hank needs to be part of a comic of similar stature to qualify. And Christos Gage...he has his fans, but he's no Matt Fraction.
    Good the character has suffered enough You know what is funny? There is this character called Endeavor. If fans have a problem with Hank hitting Janet they would be horrified at what this guy did....and yet the character has pretty much done the redemption thing already. Of course Endeavor is a manga character...
    Last edited by Anthony W; 06-14-2021 at 09:16 PM.
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  6. #36
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Hawkeye was cool way before Fraction wrote him...probably cooler, even.

    Actually, didn't Fraction write Hank in something? I feel like he did. Might've been during his Iron Man run.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah, I don't think him being a minor hero should prevent him being brought back.
    I wouldn't even say Hank is a minor hero. Like, he's not a solo star but he's been in a lot of Avengers runs and made a lot of appearances.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Hawkeye was cool way before Fraction wrote him...probably cooler, even.

    Actually, didn't Fraction write Hank in something? I feel like he did. Might've been during his Iron Man run.

    I wouldn't even say Hank is a minor hero. Like, he's not a solo star but he's been in a lot of Avengers runs and made a lot of appearances.
    Yeah, I shouldn't call him minor. More like secondary.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Hawkeye was cool way before Fraction wrote him...probably cooler, even.
    ...and he did it all while wearing a costume (which I also think is COOL)!


  9. #39
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    It's idiomatic of Hank's travails that the arrow-guy was seen as more essential than the shrinking guy, just typing that out makes for a crude obvious joke.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    It's idiomatic of Hank's travails that the arrow-guy was seen as more essential than the shrinking guy, just typing that out makes for a crude obvious joke.
    Tbh I've never seen the appeal of arrow guy, at least above the other heroes

  11. #41
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    It's idiomatic of Hank's travails that the arrow-guy was seen as more essential than the shrinking guy, just typing that out makes for a crude obvious joke.
    Well the Hawkeye/Ant-Man arrow shot is pretty iconic.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well the Hawkeye/Ant-Man arrow shot is pretty iconic.
    Stolen from GA/Atom, though, surely?

    Hawkeye became popular because he didn't have a cookie-cutter hero personality but was a bit of a rebel. It helped make the team dynamic interesting.

  13. #43
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    Stolen from GA/Atom, though, surely?

    Hawkeye became popular because he didn't have a cookie-cutter hero personality but was a bit of a rebel. It helped make the team dynamic interesting.
    It's kind of an obvious thing to do with an archer and a size changer .

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    Stolen from GA/Atom, though, surely?

    Hawkeye became popular because he didn't have a cookie-cutter hero personality but was a bit of a rebel. It helped make the team dynamic interesting.
    I honestly don't get Hawkeye's appeal. A guy with a bow and arrow! So cool!

  15. #45

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    It's not his weapons. It's his personality, relationships, role in the team and the story arcs he was a part of that made him popular. If you boil characters down to just their weapons then nobody is interesting (except for IM and BP).

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