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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Mac View Post
    The ant's speed to me is probably it's only hope. I just have an image of the ant going straight into Superman's earlobe and trying to cause vertigo. Even then, Superman has way too many ways of taking the ant out.
    Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how to calculate ant speed vs light speed, but I have an easier time imagining the ant crossing that threshold than planet benching.

  2. #17
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Travel speed: the fastest ant in the world can run about 1 meter per second (this is the equivalent of a human running over 500 km/h or 360mph. There are about one quadrillion ants in the world, so, if we allow for the fastest ant to count as the multiple for the comp, we're talking one quadrillion meters per second, which is one trillion km per second, which is over 3.3 MILLION times the speed of light. That is vastly faster than even Rebirth Superman, from any feats I've heard about.

    And given that this is running, which translates on rumbles pretty well for reaction time because you have to avoid obstacles, even if we penalize comp-o-ant a factor of a hundred, he's still looking at reaction speed in the tens of thousands of times FTL range. Again, this is stupidly faster than anything I've heard proposed for Rebirth Supes.

    I don't know if Comp-O-Ant can HURT Clark, but Clark is going to be frozen in place relatively to the ant. Maybe the ant wins when Clark dies of old age, as the ant is going to have a lifespan of AT THE VERY LEAST several quadrillion days (the ants with the shortest lifespans are in the "several days" range, the longest live over 10 years), which means "well after the heat death of the universe."
    Last edited by big_adventure; 01-14-2021 at 09:22 AM.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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  3. #18
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    This got me thinking on strength.

    Ants have widely varied masses, and somewhat varied lifting strengths.

    For this estimate, let's use 5mg as the mass of the ant (this is a standard workers of the mid-sized species from what limited research finds) and let's use 50x body-mass for lifting, as this is in the middle of the pack of estimates - the highest seen is around 100x.

    That suggests that Comb-o-ant will have the ability to lift around 250 million metric tons. Could be higher, could be lower, but that's a middle-ground kind of place. That makes the comp, well, a hell of a lot weaker than Clark.

    Now - we'd have to dig into exactly where Clark's specific durability lies, and exactly what the multiplier speed will do. Imagine Comb-o-ant blitzes into Clark's ear at a few million times the speed of light. There's nothing at all that Clark can DO about this, Comb-o-ant is waaaaaayyyyyy to fast for Clark to perceive. But what would the result be? Would that impact hurt Clark? I do not know. Would it also hurt the ant? I also do not know. We know in general that an ant can crash into things while moving and not be hurt or attack them without damaging themselves, so it SHOULDN'T, but... we're talking about a ridiculous amount of force here. In real physics of course it's "all the energy in the universe" levels, but comics and their fights obviously don't work that way.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    Travel speed: the fastest ant in the world can run about 1 meter per second (this is the equivalent of a human running over 500 km/h or 360mph. There are about one quadrillion ants in the world, so, if we allow for the fastest ant to count as the multiple for the comp, we're talking one quadrillion meters per second, which is one trillion km per second, which is over 3.3 MILLION times the speed of light. That is vastly faster than even Rebirth Superman, from any feats I've heard about.

    And given that this is running, which translates on rumbles pretty well for reaction time because you have to avoid obstacles, even if we penalize comp-o-ant a factor of a hundred, he's still looking at reaction speed in the tens of thousands of times FTL range. Again, this is stupidly faster than anything I've heard proposed for Rebirth Supes.

    I don't know if Comp-O-Ant can HURT Clark, but Clark is going to be frozen in place relatively to the ant. Maybe the ant wins when Clark dies of old age, as the ant is going to have a lifespan of AT THE VERY LEAST several quadrillion days (the ants with the shortest lifespans are in the "several days" range, the longest live over 10 years), which means "well after the heat death of the universe."
    Thanks, big adventure, for the information. Is there any comic instances of when the Atom went into Superman/Supergirl/Power Girl body? That would be the best way of figuring out if the "comb-o-ant" has any chance of doing damage to Superman internals.

    I know how Superman wins. I can't see "comb-o-ant" surviving a sun-dip, no matter where it is in Superman's body. But that ant could take a lot of other bricks out. We haven't even talked about the ant's toxics yet (Would not affect Superman, but).

    p.s. Some good old PIS Superman110-21c.JPG

  5. #20
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Mac View Post
    Thanks, big adventure, for the information. Is there any comic instances of when the Atom went into Superman/Supergirl/Power Girl body? That would be the best way of figuring out if the "comb-o-ant" has any chance of doing damage to Superman internals.

    I know how Superman wins. I can't see "comb-o-ant" surviving a sun-dip, no matter where it is in Superman's body. But that ant could take a lot of other bricks out. We haven't even talked about the ant's toxics yet (Would not affect Superman, but).

    p.s. Some good old PIS Superman110-21c.JPG

    The Atom killed Darkseid in one timeline. But his shrinking powers are a lot crazier than just being ant sized. Specifically, he surfed a photon through Darkseid's eyes and into his brain and then did something to mess with it's electrical impulses. That's not an option for the ant.


    If the ant can't hurt Clark at all (which I'm not entirely sold on either way) then Clark can probably win either through AoE attacks or, more likely, shoving their planet into the sun. The god proof force field will keep the audience safe and no one will technically leave the arena, but the arena will then be in the sun and I don't see the ant surviving that.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Shellhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Yeah, I'm not entirely sure how to calculate ant speed vs light speed, but I have an easier time imagining the ant crossing that threshold than planet benching.
    Planet benching sounds like an impressive feat, but to an onlooker, it would seem just like an ordinary pushup.

  7. #22

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    Now we need Superman vs. Composite Stacked Snapping Shrimp ( All species of snapping shrimp, including pistol shrimps.)
    My Forum check it out

    Bruceleegreyhulk's RPG & Story Forum

    Characters: Cyber Samurai, Wilima Stonewall, Red Oni, Jaakobah , Giduiz Mazi, Midas Goldsteel

  8. #23
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    The Atom killed Darkseid in one timeline. But his shrinking powers are a lot crazier than just being ant sized. Specifically, he surfed a photon through Darkseid's eyes and into his brain and then did something to mess with it's electrical impulses. That's not an option for the ant.


    If the ant can't hurt Clark at all (which I'm not entirely sold on either way) then Clark can probably win either through AoE attacks or, more likely, shoving their planet into the sun. The god proof force field will keep the audience safe and no one will technically leave the arena, but the arena will then be in the sun and I don't see the ant surviving that.
    It's funny, in all the time on the board, I don't recall anyone ever proposing destroying Khazan (or making it uninhabitable) by shoving it into the sun. We've used "create a singularity in the arena" (a fave of the Surfer, for example), annihilating anything inside with waaaaaay beyond sun-level energies, but never just letting nature do our work for us.

    I DON'T think that Clark has any AoEs that would work against the ant, simply because he's so vastly too slow and he doesn't have and 360 attacks. The ant in this fight would feel like Metroman in his weeks-long life of stopped time. Its speed advantage is that massive.

    I don't even think of Khazan HAVING a sun - I think of it like the arena in DBS. This might require mod ruling, because it could change a lot of results.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Mac View Post
    The ant's speed to me is probably it's only hope. I just have an image of the ant going straight into Superman's earlobe and trying to cause vertigo. Even then, Superman has way too many ways of taking the ant out.
    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    It's funny, in all the time on the board, I don't recall anyone ever proposing destroying Khazan (or making it uninhabitable) by shoving it into the sun. We've used "create a singularity in the arena" (a fave of the Surfer, for example), annihilating anything inside with waaaaaay beyond sun-level energies, but never just letting nature do our work for us.

    I DON'T think that Clark has any AoEs that would work against the ant, simply because he's so vastly too slow and he doesn't have and 360 attacks. The ant in this fight would feel like Metroman in his weeks-long life of stopped time. Its speed advantage is that massive.

    I don't even think of Khazan HAVING a sun - I think of it like the arena in DBS. This might require mod ruling, because it could change a lot of results.
    I am pretty sure the arena is named after something from a fictional setting, possible a roleplaying game. Most fiction settings have a sun, so I don't see any reason to assume this one doesn't any more than to assume it doesn't have oxygen.

    Also, there's a pretty small number of characters that are capable of doing this(post crisis Clark probably couldn't,) surviving it (Goku would die without air to breathe), and who don't already have an AoE option that does the job easier (Surfer, as you pointed out.)

    There's only so many fights this would actually change.

  10. #25
    She/Her Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Can the Ant pull off an IMP?
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_adventure View Post
    It's funny, in all the time on the board, I don't recall anyone ever proposing destroying Khazan (or making it uninhabitable) by shoving it into the sun. We've used "create a singularity in the arena" (a fave of the Surfer, for example), annihilating anything inside with waaaaaay beyond sun-level energies, but never just letting nature do our work for us.

    I DON'T think that Clark has any AoEs that would work against the ant, simply because he's so vastly too slow and he doesn't have and 360 attacks. The ant in this fight would feel like Metroman in his weeks-long life of stopped time. Its speed advantage is that massive.

    I don't even think of Khazan HAVING a sun - I think of it like the arena in DBS. This might require mod ruling, because it could change a lot of results.
    Ants tend to slow down in cold weather. I was thinking that Clark would go freeze breath to cool down the arena. Once the ant slows down enough so that he can figure out where it is, it's a space toss for the win. The ant does require oxygen to survive.

    But, this is a rare case in which Superman gets blitzed. Can Clark survive the blitz long enough to actually get his offense going? It's an surprisingly interesting rumble!

  12. #27
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I am pretty sure the arena is named after something from a fictional setting, possible a roleplaying game. Most fiction settings have a sun, so I don't see any reason to assume this one doesn't any more than to assume it doesn't have oxygen.

    Also, there's a pretty small number of characters that are capable of doing this(post crisis Clark probably couldn't,) surviving it (Goku would die without air to breathe), and who don't already have an AoE option that does the job easier (Surfer, as you pointed out.)

    There's only so many fights this would actually change.
    It feels honestly pretty rules lawyery/against the intent of the actual fights where external stuff aren't resources, the idea of that.

  13. #28
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    Can the Ant pull off an IMP?
    He certainly moves more than fast enough. Even Rebirth supes isn't taking a hit from something in the hundreds of thousands of tons range at millions of times the speed of light. By physics (which obviously don't apply to comics and such), and IMP ain't even in the same sport to what Comb-o-ant can deliver.

    But... comics.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  14. #29
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    I am pretty sure the arena is named after something from a fictional setting, possible a roleplaying game. Most fiction settings have a sun, so I don't see any reason to assume this one doesn't any more than to assume it doesn't have oxygen.

    Also, there's a pretty small number of characters that are capable of doing this(post crisis Clark probably couldn't,) surviving it (Goku would die without air to breathe), and who don't already have an AoE option that does the job easier (Surfer, as you pointed out.)

    There's only so many fights this would actually change.
    Eh, what I was going for with my answer was the fact that the Arena is meant to be a place where the environment is neutral, no matter what more or less.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    It feels honestly pretty rules lawyery/against the intent of the actual fights where external stuff aren't resources, the idea of that.
    ...that's about what I feel.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
    "...makes me think the Night King just says "Screw the rules, I have magic money" when it comes to physics." -Captain Morgan

  15. #30
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    Question: If this ant had the stacked mass of every Ant on Earth, but was still regular ant sized, would it be a singularity?

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