Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 456789 LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 130
  1. #106
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    65,592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ******123 View Post
    Not really? 616 Gwen was a high society rich girl and publicly known as being one of the prettiest women in ESU. This Gwen is more of a punk rocker tomboy who's very clearly distinct from her 616 counterpart. I mean can you see 616 Gwen Stacy playing in a band, fighting off bullies or playing Dungeons and Dragons? I sure can't, any more than I can see 65 Gwen going to high society parties and playing the role of the socialite. 616 Gwen herself points out how 65 Gwen is nothing like her:



    Peter says they're similar but it kinda comes across like he's just placating Gwen than anything else.

    There are also some other differences like the Stacy's relative wealth. 616 Captain Stacy is clearly high ranked and there was an uptown girl vibe between her and Peter. 65 Gwen lived right next door to the Parkers and appears to be upper middle class at best, removing the disparity between her and Peter. Just because they're dimensional counterparts doesn't mean they're really similar. 65 Gwen really has more similarities to Ultimate Gwen given her status as a rough and tumble punk.
    Yeah, Earth-65 Gwen feels way more like Ultimate Gwen than 616 Gwen.

  2. #107
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    476

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ******123 View Post
    Not really? 616 Gwen was a high society rich girl and publicly known as being one of the prettiest women in ESU. This Gwen is more of a punk rocker tomboy who's very clearly distinct from her 616 counterpart. I mean can you see 616 Gwen Stacy playing in a band, fighting off bullies or playing Dungeons and Dragons? I sure can't, any more than I can see 65 Gwen going to high society parties and playing the role of the socialite. 616 Gwen herself points out how 65 Gwen is nothing like her:



    Peter says they're similar but it kinda comes across like he's just placating Gwen than anything else.

    There are also some other differences like the Stacy's relative wealth. 616 Captain Stacy is clearly high ranked and there was an uptown girl vibe between her and Peter. 65 Gwen lived right next door to the Parkers and appears to be upper middle class at best, removing the disparity between her and Peter. Just because they're dimensional counterparts doesn't mean they're really similar. 65 Gwen really has more similarities to Ultimate Gwen given her status as a rough and tumble punk.
    I stand corrected.Although I still stand by my og opinion that Miles and Gwen is a terrible ship and Gwen worked better in 65.Gwen of 616 is dead and we don't need a replacement,I don't mind crossovers and a solo title but living in the 616 when there are way too many Spider-characters here is a bad idea.Also they are different in attitude but still have some common intrinsic values.Still imagine if a counterpart of your de-aged wife lived on your earth and dated your younger brother/son.Sure they aren't similar but the ship is still weird and horrible for them both.
    Also both gwen and peter were famous for who they were and were self made characters.No one(or a lot less) would care about Spider-woman of 65 and Miles morales if they weren't gwen or Spider-man respectively.They got popular on the back of other characters

  3. #108
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    441

    Default

    Gwen has this issue where she’s basically a completely different character every single time she shows up in different media. Peter, Harry and Mary Jane have the same general template and while their exact structures might change they’re still recognizable - Peter’s the nice underdog from a poor family, Mary Jane is the one with energetic and driven girl next door, Harry is the lonely rich kid with a crappy dad. Their personalities generally remain consistent as well outside of oneshot AU’s.

    Gwen on the other hand just bounces all over the fucking place. The only thing that remains consistent is her having a police chief dad, literlaly everything else is a grab bag. Her personality, social status, intelligence, level of competency...basically everything just shifts depending in whatever the writers wants.

    Hell, even the three main Spider-Gwens we have are pretty different. Comics Gwen is a very emotional person who often leaps before she acts, has a rebellious streak a mile wide and had major self loathing issues. Spiderverse Gwen is very mature and level headed despite her young age who’s closed off from others due to her Peter’s death. Also a ballet expert. Then there’s Rising Gwen who’s shown to be a tech genius like most Peters are in addition to having a somewhat bitter and spiteful personality prior to joining the Secret Warriors. Somehow I can’t see comics or spiderverse Gwen fighting and insulting cops, for example.

  4. #109
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    11,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ******123 View Post
    Gwen has this issue where she’s basically a completely different character every single time she shows up in different media. Peter, Harry and Mary Jane have the same general template and while their exact structures might change they’re still recognizable - Peter’s the nice underdog from a poor family, Mary Jane is the one with energetic and driven girl next door, Harry is the lonely rich kid with a crappy dad. Their personalities generally remain consistent as well outside of oneshot AU’s.

    Gwen on the other hand just bounces all over the fucking place. The only thing that remains consistent is her having a police chief dad, literlaly everything else is a grab bag. Her personality, social status, intelligence, level of competency...basically everything just shifts depending in whatever the writers wants.

    Hell, even the three main Spider-Gwens we have are pretty different. Comics Gwen is a very emotional person who often leaps before she acts, has a rebellious streak a mile wide and had major self loathing issues. Spiderverse Gwen is very mature and level headed despite her young age who’s closed off from others due to her Peter’s death. Also a ballet expert. Then there’s Rising Gwen who’s shown to be a tech genius like most Peters are in addition to having a somewhat bitter and spiteful personality prior to joining the Secret Warriors. Somehow I can’t see comics or spiderverse Gwen fighting and insulting cops, for example.
    Hmm, that's a very good point, and it does reflect how the original 616 comics themselves struggled to come up with a distinct identity/personality for Gwen, not helped by the fandom and readership largely preferring Mary Jane and how Lee and Romita, Sr. attempted to correct course on that.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #110
    Amazing Member Nerdman3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ******123 View Post
    Gwen has this issue where she’s basically a completely different character every single time she shows up in different media. Peter, Harry and Mary Jane have the same general template and while their exact structures might change they’re still recognizable - Peter’s the nice underdog from a poor family, Mary Jane is the one with energetic and driven girl next door, Harry is the lonely rich kid with a crappy dad. Their personalities generally remain consistent as well outside of oneshot AU’s.

    Gwen on the other hand just bounces all over the fucking place. The only thing that remains consistent is her having a police chief dad, literlaly everything else is a grab bag. Her personality, social status, intelligence, level of competency...basically everything just shifts depending in whatever the writers wants.

    Hell, even the three main Spider-Gwens we have are pretty different. Comics Gwen is a very emotional person who often leaps before she acts, has a rebellious streak a mile wide and had major self loathing issues. Spiderverse Gwen is very mature and level headed despite her young age who’s closed off from others due to her Peter’s death. Also a ballet expert. Then there’s Rising Gwen who’s shown to be a tech genius like most Peters are in addition to having a somewhat bitter and spiteful personality prior to joining the Secret Warriors. Somehow I can’t see comics or spiderverse Gwen fighting and insulting cops, for example.
    It’s not just Gwen in different media that inconsistent. Even when she was alive her character was consistent, considering Romita Sr basically rewrote her character’s personality after he took over from Ditko.

    And of course, after her death her character continued to be inconsistent (and her and her relationship with Peter was made much more romanticized/idealized than it honestly actually, as people to to forget that they were constantly arguing and/or Peter constantly being worried she was going to leave or cheat on him with Flash Thompson). Spider-Man: Blue for example has one of my favorite versions of Gwen, but even that version is not entirely consistent to the original Gwen before her death. Hell, one of the most popular versions of Gwen recently, the Emma Stone version, shares more in terms of personality with Mary Jane then she does with 616 Gwen (either Romita or Ditko’s versions).

    And like ******123 pointed out, Spider-Gwen shares more in common in terms of personality and character with Ultimate Gwen (who also has a different personality from 616 Gwen) than 616 Gwen.

    Honestly, the only consistent thing about Gwen Stacy is that she’s inconsistent.
    Last edited by Nerdman3000; 04-18-2021 at 04:01 PM.

  6. #111
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    441

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Hmm, that's a very good point, and it does reflect how the original 616 comics themselves struggled to come up with a distinct identity/personality for Gwen, not helped by the fandom and readership largely preferring Mary Jane and how Lee and Romita, Sr. attempted to correct course on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdman3000 View Post
    It’s not just Gwen in different media that inconsistent. Even when she was alive her character was consistent, considering Romita Sr basically rewrote her character’s personality after he took over from Ditko.

    And of course, after her death her character continued to be inconsistent (and her and her relationship with Peter was made much more romanticized/idealized than it honestly actually, as people to to forget that they were constantly arguing and/or Peter constantly being worried she was going to leave or cheat on him with Flash Thompson). Spider-Man: Blue for example has one of my favorite versions of Gwen, but even that version is not entirely consistent to the original Gwen before her death. Hell, one of the most popular versions of Gwen recently, the Emma Stone version, shares more in terms of personality with Mary Jane then she does with 616 Gwen (either Romita or Ditko’s versions).

    And like ******123 pointed out, Spider-Gwen shares more in common in terms of personality and character with Ultimate Gwen (who also has a different personality from 616 Gwen) than 616 Gwen.

    Honestly, the only consistent thing about Gwen Stacy is that she’s inconsistent.
    Funnily enough at least some recent comics have stabilized Gwen’s personality...by basically making her Mary Jane. I remember the ‘Spidey!’ comic just flat out turning her into a blonde clone - she has a tomboyish sense of style like ultimate and 65 Gwen but she’s also Peter’s extremely snarky and teasing girlfriend like Mary Jane is. She also gained Mary Jane’s sense of justice and heroism along with her fondness for the webhead, both traits the actual Gwen Stacy lacked.

    The IDW comics also just went with her spidergwen personality but also buffed her intelligence so she wouldn’t look dumb next to Peter and Miles. Which is a shame since I actually liked comic spidergwen not being a genius but having more street smarts and rebellious spirit. Apart from the time she vandalized multiple buildings to lure out Vulture this sense of rebellion never really manifests again and she acts like, to quote one reviewer, ‘Peter Parker with boobs’.

    Iirc Latour also wanted to play up her fugitive and suspicion angle, even noting that the hood was meant to make her look more skeevy since hoods are generally something you expect a villain to wear. Kinda failed om that front too considering she’s primarily characterized with the color white and a lot of her issues taking place in nighttime just makes her look more like a light in the darkness than someone slinking through alleyways like a sneak.

  7. #112
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    11,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ******123 View Post
    Funnily enough at least some recent comics have stabilized Gwen’s personality...by basically making her Mary Jane. I remember the ‘Spidey!’ comic just flat out turning her into a blonde clone - she has a tomboyish sense of style like ultimate and 65 Gwen but she’s also Peter’s extremely snarky and teasing girlfriend like Mary Jane is. She also gained Mary Jane’s sense of justice and heroism along with her fondness for the webhead, both traits the actual Gwen Stacy lacked.

    The IDW comics also just went with her spidergwen personality but also buffed her intelligence so she wouldn’t look dumb next to Peter and Miles. Which is a shame since I actually liked comic spidergwen not being a genius but having more street smarts and rebellious spirit. Apart from the time she vandalized multiple buildings to lure out Vulture this sense of rebellion never really manifests again and she acts like, to quote one reviewer, ‘Peter Parker with boobs’.

    Iirc Latour also wanted to play up her fugitive and suspicion angle, even noting that the hood was meant to make her look more skeevy since hoods are generally something you expect a villain to wear. Kinda failed om that front too considering she’s primarily characterized with the color white and a lot of her issues taking place in nighttime just makes her look more like a light in the darkness than someone slinking through alleyways like a sneak.
    Interesting points you bring up there.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #113
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Interesting points you bring up there.
    What can we say? Times change, and comics characters must change with them. I mean, not so long ago, Venom was just another insane villain obssessed with destroying Spider-Man. And now?, well, I'll say he has evolved WAY beyond that. And Carol Danvers "evolved" from "Miss Marvel" to the new "Captain Marvel". If only they would not undo almost every single change they make.

  9. #114
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    What can we say? Times change, and comics characters must change with them. I mean, not so long ago, Venom was just another insane villain obssessed with destroying Spider-Man. And now?, well, I'll say he has evolved WAY beyond that. And Carol Danvers "evolved" from "Miss Marvel" to the new "Captain Marvel". If only they would not undo almost every single change they make.
    Indeed, 616 Spider-Man says hi, regrettably. He's the modern poster person for comic book character regression.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  10. #115
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,835

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Indeed, 616 Spider-Man says hi, regrettably. He's the modern poster person for comic book character regression.
    Honestly, if they want a young Spider-Man in Marvel, they already have Miles Morales, so why can't they just leave Parker to keep moving forward?

  11. #116
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,943

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Honestly, if they want a young Spider-Man in Marvel, they already have Miles Morales, so why can't they just leave Parker to keep moving forward?
    You're preaching to the converted. That said, Marvel Editorial would seemingly disagree with this apparently logical statement for their own mind-boggling reasons.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  12. #117
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    476

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ******123 View Post
    Gwen has this issue where she’s basically a completely different character every single time she shows up in different media. Peter, Harry and Mary Jane have the same general template and while their exact structures might change they’re still recognizable - Peter’s the nice underdog from a poor family, Mary Jane is the one with energetic and driven girl next door, Harry is the lonely rich kid with a crappy dad. Their personalities generally remain consistent as well outside of oneshot AU’s.

    Gwen on the other hand just bounces all over the fucking place. The only thing that remains consistent is her having a police chief dad, literlaly everything else is a grab bag. Her personality, social status, intelligence, level of competency...basically everything just shifts depending in whatever the writers wants.

    Hell, even the three main Spider-Gwens we have are pretty different. Comics Gwen is a very emotional person who often leaps before she acts, has a rebellious streak a mile wide and had major self loathing issues. Spiderverse Gwen is very mature and level headed despite her young age who’s closed off from others due to her Peter’s death. Also a ballet expert. Then there’s Rising Gwen who’s shown to be a tech genius like most Peters are in addition to having a somewhat bitter and spiteful personality prior to joining the Secret Warriors. Somehow I can’t see comics or spiderverse Gwen fighting and insulting cops, for example.
    Oh yeah.Gwen has had way to many peronailty changes.She always has had some common values in her but other stuff is vastly different.My favourite moments were Spider-man blue which is canon(for me at least),The part where she stands up for peter in front of May.Also anyone who uses SP as a reason to not like gwen is full crazy.Aside from being hated by all fans and readers it also doesn't fit in the timeline of europe story.I feel the TASM way of killing her before europe was the thing to do.Also in my headcanon Gwen was Peter's first and vice versa since Spiderman blue.Sorry for the rant

  13. #118
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    476

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Honestly, if they want a young Spider-Man in Marvel, they already have Miles Morales, so why can't they just leave Parker to keep moving forward?
    Thank you.This is so important.Spencer has done a lot for Peter imo

  14. #119
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    476

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    You're preaching to the converted. That said, Marvel Editorial would seemingly disagree with this apparently logical statement for their own mind-boggling reasons.
    Editorial is the one who wanted OMD,SP and let dan slott go on for so long.They are crazy for sure

  15. #120
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Posts
    476

    Default

    All that being said I still feel using Spider-gwen in 616 takes away from some of gwen's death.Like old man logan and logan.It still has impact but not as much.The gwen miles stuff is harmful for both since miles needs to be differentiated from gwen and other reasons posted above.Honestly the only reason they are popular is because ITSV.I hope to good we don't get a romance but I have a bad feeling we will get one.And if we get one in movies it will come into the comics.Ugh

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •