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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    So why was Peter so scared ? This isn't MJ first rodeo with his bad guys

  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    So why was Peter so scared ? This isn't MJ first rodeo with his bad guys
    He doesn't like having his loved ones close to danger, especially when the Osborns are the danger.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  3. #63
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    He doesn't like having his loved ones close to danger, especially when the Osborns are the danger.
    Exactly, and given everything the Osborns have done, to him and to others . . .
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    So why was Peter so scared ? This isn't MJ first rodeo with his bad guys
    I can't believe you're actually asking that question. Would you let your girlfriend meet Ted Bundy? At least, he doesn't have superpowers.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Exactly, and given everything the Osborns have done, to him and to others . . .
    Indeed. After what Kindred did to Peter here, I will say Spider-Man just had enough of the Osborn's disease. I mean, come on! I won't deny it was scary how Spider-Man acted here, but can we really blame him? I mean, old fans who have reads his stories for decades though the same: Peter has been doing this stupid dance with the Osborns for too long, at some point he has to say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH". Don't you think?

    Now, if only Batman would do the same about the Joker.
    Last edited by Ursalink; 01-17-2021 at 09:15 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Indeed. After what Kindred did to Peter here, I will say Spider-Man just had enough of the Osborn's disease. I mean, come on! I won't deny it was scary how Spider-Man acted here, but can we really blame him? I mean, old fans who have reads his stories for decades though the same: Peter has been doing this stupid dance with the Osborns for too long, at some point he has to say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH". Don't you think?

    Now, if only Batman would do the same about the Joker.
    Wasn't that what the recent Joker War arc and its aftermath were about? The consequences of Batman not finally deciding "enough is enough" with the Joker? That aside, the whole thing with the movement Sin-Eater started after being dragged out of hell by Harry/Kindred slightly reminded me of how so many otherwise ordinary Gotham City denizens joined in the Joker's campaign of unprecedented --- even for him --- chaos and destruction. Linking those together, I could see an overarching theme of ordinary people having enough of the heroes and their failures, real or perceived, and embracing a violent, destructive kind of nihilism as a result.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Wasn't that what the recent Joker War arc and its aftermath were about? The consequences of Batman not finally deciding "enough is enough" with the Joker? That aside, the whole thing with the movement Sin-Eater started after being dragged out of hell by Harry/Kindred slightly reminded me of how so many otherwise ordinary Gotham City denizens joined in the Joker's campaign of unprecedented --- even for him --- chaos and destruction. Linking those together, I could see an overarching theme of ordinary people having enough of the heroes and their failures, real or perceived, and embracing a violent, destructive kind of nihilism as a result.
    The Joker War didn't change anything for Batman. He didn't save the Joker, but he knew he would save himself; so basically he just didn't kill him as he should have, he let him escape. However, Gotham is who said "enough is enough". Now they see Batman and the Joker as the faces of a same coin: the coin of the masked lunatics who turn life in Gotham into a Hell, and they are not going to allow this to continue anymore. They want Batman, as well as his allies and his enemies out of Gotham, once and for all.

    The Sin-Eater is something different. He removed the Sins of criminals and purified, but as we could see, the Sins didn't just vanished, they moved to somewhere else. Spider-Man was the only one who knew the Sin-Eater's "gift" was "too good to be true", and he tried to stop him before it was too late. This was like Spider-Island, when everyone started to have Spider-Man's powers. Sure, at first it seemed great; you were stronger, faster, and you could move through the city by webslinging. But Peter knew this couldn't be as good as it seemed; because Peter was an accident, and the circunstances couldn't repeat themselves. And Peter was right, as suddenly people started to grow extra limbs, bug eyes and fangs. People didn't realize the truth until it was too late. I suppose NY will also realize that the Sin-Eater's mission was crap too.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    The Joker War didn't change anything for Batman. He didn't save the Joker, but he knew he would save himself; so basically he just didn't kill him as he should have, he let him escape. However, Gotham is who said "enough is enough". Now they see Batman and the Joker as the faces of a same coin: the coin of the masked lunatics who turn life in Gotham into a Hell, and they are not going to allow this to continue anymore. They want Batman, as well as his allies and his enemies out of Gotham, once and for all.

    The Sin-Eater is something different. He removed the Sins of criminals and purified, but as we could see, the Sins didn't just vanished, they moved to somewhere else. Spider-Man was the only one who knew the Sin-Eater's "gift" was "too good to be true", and he tried to stop him before it was too late. This was like Spider-Island, when everyone started to have Spider-Man's powers. Sure, at first it seemed great; you were stronger, faster, and you could move through the city by webslinging. But Peter knew this couldn't be as good as it seemed; because Peter was an accident, and the circunstances couldn't repeat themselves. And Peter was right, as suddenly people started to grow extra limbs, bug eyes and fangs. People didn't realize the truth until it was too late. I suppose NY will also realize that the Sin-Eater's mission was crap too.
    Considering the last ".LR" side story had Sin-Eater actually off himself after realizing he'd been played for a fool by Kindred . . . thinking that won't take much longer, whenever that plot thread gets picked up again. As for your point about Joker War not changing anything for Batman, that was why I referred to it as the consequences of Batman not deciding enough was enough sooner, though in slight fairness, Batman's still an (officially) unlicensed vigilante, so why hasn't Gotham's criminal justice system done anything more permanent about the Joker, since they're the ones with actual legal authority? (Of course, that brings up the Joker's new main squeeze Punchline's point about the Joker's antics being exploited by corrupt elites and higher-ups in Gotham for their own ends, so . . .)
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Considering the last ".LR" side story had Sin-Eater actually off himself after realizing he'd been played for a fool by Kindred . . . thinking that won't take much longer, whenever that plot thread gets picked up again. As for your point about Joker War not changing anything for Batman, that was why I referred to it as the consequences of Batman not deciding enough was enough sooner, though in slight fairness, Batman's still an (officially) unlicensed vigilante, so why hasn't Gotham's criminal justice system done anything more permanent about the Joker, since they're the ones with actual legal authority? (Of course, that brings up the Joker's new main squeeze Punchline's point about the Joker's antics being exploited by corrupt elites and higher-ups in Gotham for their own ends, so . . .)
    I'm just going to add something more about Batman and end up there, because this is not the place to talk about it. Precisely because Batman is an "unlicensed vigilante" is quite curious how he broke any law in the past (like kidnapping, torturing and even worse), and yet he refuses to break one law that could actually mean something. Jason Todd and many others don't stop showing Batman he's doing wrong by letting the worst scum to stay alive, and when they realize Batman will never kill them, they no longer fear him and his whole stuff is pointless. And now, in the comics, Batman is facing the consequences of his incompetence, as Gotham's citizens had enough of the endless circle of death and destruction. If Batman had faced the facts and killed the Joker when he had the chance, Gotham wouldn't have turned against him like this.

  10. #70
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    I'm just going to add something more about Batman and end up there, because this is not the place to talk about it. Precisely because Batman is an "unlicensed vigilante" is quite curious how he broke any law in the past (like kidnapping, torturing and even worse), and yet he refuses to break one law that could actually mean something. Jason Todd and many others don't stop showing Batman he's doing wrong by letting the worst scum to stay alive, and when they realize Batman will never kill them, they no longer fear him and his whole stuff is pointless. And now, in the comics, Batman is facing the consequences of his incompetence, as Gotham's citizens had enough of the endless circle of death and destruction. If Batman had faced the facts and killed the Joker when he had the chance, Gotham wouldn't have turned against him like this.
    Who knows what Gotham would have done in the long run even if he killed Joker. They might be even more afraid cause he kill Joker. Like if you kill Joker how would they know Batman won't kill again. Also couldn't they sent Joker to a place to be killed themselves Joker is way past the arkham excuse
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    Who knows what Gotham would have done in the long run even if he killed Joker. They might be even more afraid cause he kill Joker. Like if you kill Joker how would they know Batman won't kill again. Also couldn't they sent Joker to a place to be killed themselves Joker is way past the arkham excuse
    Nobody, except Batman, would drop a tear for the Joker. In Injustice, when Superman revealed he killed the Joker in an interview, the reporter said "I highly doubt there's a single soul in this city, or this world, who would say you did wrong". Any regular citizen in Gotham will be happy to know the Joker was dead.

    Now, let's stop talking about Batman and let's back to Mary Jane, the main topic here.

    I want to say, her debut as Carnage in the first issue of "Gwenom vs Carnage" is going to give me nightmares for months!! Compared with this, what we saw in Ultimate Spider-Man with the Carnage Queen was quite innocent.

  12. #72
    Mighty Member Jman27's Avatar
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    yeah who brought Batman here but back to EMJay I know nothing about her as a character plus its not even her in control so would she have any recollection of this event
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

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  13. #73
    Incredible Member AngelJD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    I want to say, her debut as Carnage in the first issue of "Gwenom vs Carnage" is going to give me nightmares for months!! Compared with this, what we saw in Ultimate Spider-Man with the Carnage Queen was quite innocent.
    I enjoy seeing that the artist (who the artist and colorist did a great job in the issue) after coming up with a couple of different designs they ultimately made her design horrifying.
    I love when the creative teams share prototypes and roughs works allowing us to see the insights into thinking and designs. Some of the designs for Em Jay Carnage I found to be very cool yet intimating and had a look that screamed Earth-65 Em Jay style with the Rock Prima Donna dark jacket look and blood red sharp guitar/ax yet I guess they decided against them as it had EmJays style indicating she had some level of consciousness/control but in story she doesn't but Knull/Carnage does only thus far.

    So many times I would see a symbiote wearing 'sexy MJ' and if MJ/Em Jay was in control or had a partnership with a symbiote that worked with her that could be a case. But this is different.
    This is Carnage and Knull.
    They don't care to much about 'sexy'. They really want and enjoy fear and death. So it's logical of a horror look to scare heroes and intimated them. Add that Gwen knows her and Knull though EmJay might now know that Knull and his loyal willingly psycho servant Carnage would twisted twist her while making sure Gwen knows who she be fighting. 'Try to destroy us and you'll be destroying your friend who we are using to massacre you and others and we will enjoy this and take what you have'

    Now it's unknown how this will play out. Will the part of the symbiote from Gwen's that is on Em Jay help restore Em Jay's consciousness and with possibly three wills fighting within (Gwen, Em Jay, and Gwen's symbiote who is on both of them and might form a bridge to have them work together to battle and disconnect Knull and Carnage away). Time will tell.

    The writer stated she had many plans and MJ/Carnage was among them but she had alot more before that storyline and setup she wanted to do first. However which happens often in this industry sudden changes and unexpected events came that shut the door on many of her plans but open one door to this one with some changes needed.
    Now that Em Jay is on Earth-616 with Gwen and Gwen's Multiverse transporter she was planning to use just to teleport to Peter and Miles might be damaged (or didn't work just by bad luck as when she tried to use it at that same time the symbiote put on MJ went to Gwen when Em Jay screamed for Gwen causing the two to collide during transport in a way with Em Jay transporting though Gwen and her symbiote. Unknown what that might affect powers wise and link to Gwen and Em Jay herself from the glitch transportation.

  14. #74
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelJD View Post
    I enjoy seeing that the artist (who the artist and colorist did a great job in the issue) after coming up with a couple of different designs they ultimately made her design horrifying.
    I love when the creative teams share prototypes and roughs works allowing us to see the insights into thinking and designs. Some of the designs for Em Jay Carnage I found to be very cool yet intimating and had a look that screamed Earth-65 Em Jay style with the Rock Prima Donna dark jacket look and blood red sharp guitar/ax yet I guess they decided against them as it had EmJays style indicating she had some level of consciousness/control but in story she doesn't but Knull/Carnage does only thus far.

    So many times I would see a symbiote wearing 'sexy MJ' and if MJ/Em Jay was in control or had a partnership with a symbiote that worked with her that could be a case. But this is different.
    This is Carnage and Knull.
    They don't care to much about 'sexy'. They really want and enjoy fear and death. So it's logical of a horror look to scare heroes and intimated them. Add that Gwen knows her and Knull though EmJay might now know that Knull and his loyal willingly psycho servant Carnage would twisted twist her while making sure Gwen knows who she be fighting. 'Try to destroy us and you'll be destroying your friend who we are using to massacre you and others and we will enjoy this and take what you have'

    Now it's unknown how this will play out. Will the part of the symbiote from Gwen's that is on Em Jay help restore Em Jay's consciousness and with possibly three wills fighting within (Gwen, Em Jay, and Gwen's symbiote who is on both of them and might form a bridge to have them work together to battle and disconnect Knull and Carnage away). Time will tell.

    The writer stated she had many plans and MJ/Carnage was among them but she had alot more before that storyline and setup she wanted to do first. However which happens often in this industry sudden changes and unexpected events came that shut the door on many of her plans but open one door to this one with some changes needed.
    Now that Em Jay is on Earth-616 with Gwen and Gwen's Multiverse transporter she was planning to use just to teleport to Peter and Miles might be damaged (or didn't work just by bad luck as when she tried to use it at that same time the symbiote put on MJ went to Gwen when Em Jay screamed for Gwen causing the two to collide during transport in a way with Em Jay transporting though Gwen and her symbiote. Unknown what that might affect powers wise and link to Gwen and Em Jay herself from the glitch transportation.
    That's an excellent summation of it, I think.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #75
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    yeah who brought Batman here
    Ursalink is the guilty party. Probably regrets it considering he said we need to get back on topic!
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