Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2021

[Vortex85]

It's better than the Andrew Garfield movies, and it's not Batman and Robin bad. When I watch the movies, and forget that these are supposed to be Spider-Man characters, they are enjoyable but that enjoyment stops when it ends and you realize who these characters are supposed to be and try and make it fit.

Its a low bar when to in order to enjoy a Spider-Man film’s cast of characters, you have to block it from your mind that they are supposed to be playing Spider-Man characters.

[Confuzzled]

We got Into the Spider-Verse, which is superior to MCU Spider-Man in every way, shape, and form.

I am not going to champion substandard Spider-Man films.

Of course, to each their own. In my case, my profession entails me having to lead a team of Gen Z kids in their early/mid 20's who can't shut up about "Tom x Zendaya OMG THEY SLAP SO HARD AS PETER AND MJ AFGJSJGSSGSHJJJ" and have basically made me see the appeal from THEIR perspective, so I at least get it now even if it's nowhere near my preferred version of the characters and their stories.

If anything Teen Titans Go! taught us is that kids are gonna love what is fed to them and defend it till death no matter its actual quality.

[Kevinroc]

MCU Peter is just too "aww, shucks" to the point that the DCEU's Billy Batson has more edge to him than Peter Parker.

[Vortex85]

Of course, to each their own. In my case, my profession entails me having to lead a team of Gen Z kids in their early/mid 20's who can't shut up about "Tom x Zendaya OMG THEY SLAP SO HARD AS PETER AND MJ AFGJSJGSSGSHJJJ" and have basically made me see the appeal from THEIR perspective, so I at least get it now even if it's nowhere near my preferred version of the characters and their stories.

If anything Teen Titans Go! taught us is that kids are gonna love what is fed to them and defend it till death no matter its actual quality.

Yeah but its sucks because they would be loving it just as hard with the comic versions and then fans of the comic characters could share the joy of seeing what you love get appreciated by others. Now you watch them gush about these alternate MCU characters and then when you do see the versions you know and love finally get adapted these kids won’t appreciate as much because they are different than the MCU version.

If the characters were adapted faithfully then you could at least see the audience love certain adaptations of the same characters. Right now I see stuff about this MJ being the best MJ ever as if changing her to not be like the comics somehow makes her a better character.

[Kevinroc]

"Face it, tiger" has never been done in film. MCU absolutely could have done that. They chose not to.

[Vortex85]

"Face it, tiger" has never been done in film. MCU absolutely could have done that. They chose not to.

She doesn’t even say “tiger” period thus far.

[Confuzzled]

MCU Peter is just too "aww, shucks" to the point that the DCEU's Billy Batson has more edge to him than Peter Parker.

The removing of the edges does endear him to a lot of new people though, especially young girls, which is a cold and calculated move on Feige's part (moves like these are exactly why he's so successful at what he does but I digress). It's also an appeal to MCU Tony Stark's fanbase I think, to convince them that this kid is not a replacement of their own hero but a child who looks up to Tony and by proxy, Tony's own fanbase.

Seriously though, these new films are just a fanwank to RDJ's Tony. Which is why I'm semi relieved that the third film is Spider-Verse coz now it is fanwank to older Spidey films, which... hey at least NOW it's something related to Spider-Man himself.

Yeah but its sucks because they would be loving it just as hard with the comic versions and then fans of the comic characters could share the joy of seeing what you love get appreciated by others. Now you watch them gush about this alternate characters and then when you do see the versions you know and love finally get adapted these kids wonÂ’t appreciate as much because they are different than the MCU version.

True. TBF the Tobey/Andrew franchises already fractured the general public's perspectives towards the franchise. The MCU has warped it some more.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I actually like Zendaya's MJ far more than any other character in these movies. My only wish is:
-- They call her Mary Jane Watson, and not Michelle.
-- They get rid of Ned Leeds so she can actually play Ultimate Mary Jane's role as Peter's second-in-command from Bendis, rather than have Ganke stolen from Miles.

Aside from that I have no problems with her, Zendaya is a great screen presence. She adds to Mary Jane's prestige.

The only unbelievable part for me is that she and Holland have no chemistry but that's down to Holland and also the writing.

[Confuzzled]

She doesn’t even say “tiger” period thus far.

They stole it for Pepper Potts way back in 2010 for Iron Man 2, when they thought this would be the closest they would get to Mary Jane and Peter. Hopefully Zendaya MJ picks it up from Kirsten Dunst's Mary Jane instead of Pepper coz I don't want MJ to be a Pepper understudy after the whole Tony/Peter clownery.

[Vortex85]

I actually like Zendaya's MJ far more than any other character in these movies. My only wish is:
-- They call her Mary Jane Watson, and not Michelle.
-- They get rid of Ned Leeds so she can actually play Ultimate Mary Jane's role as Peter's second-in-command from Bendis, rather than have Ganke stolen from Miles.

Aside from that I have no problems with her, Zendaya is a great screen presence. She adds to Mary Jane's prestige.

The only unbelievable part for me is that she and Holland have no chemistry but that's down to Holland and also the writing.

How can she add to Mary Jane’s prestige when there are MCU fans all over twitter
literally dissing Mary Jane and saying they don’t want her they like their MCU MJ better? Plus, even you think she is Mary Jane, if someone made a documentary about me and got my entire character and personality wrong I wouldn’t care how popular it was, I would complain “but that’s nothing like me!”

[Kevinroc]

Aunt May setting up Peter and MJ is gold. Audiences would absolutely eat that up, but the MCU version chose not to do that either.

[Confuzzled]

Aside from that I have no problems with her, Zendaya is a great screen presence. She adds to Mary Jane's prestige.

She is so glamorous and fashionable in real life. Zendaya is definitely not to blame for this mess (in fact, she makes the character work DESPITE the mess). The blame for this portrayal falls squarely on years of the idiotic narrative that traditional Mary Jane is a shallow trophy wife/unrealistic for Peter/not a "real" "relatable" female character (even though we knew from these forums and from fan letters that MJ had female fans right from the Silver Age who preferred her to Gwen) and of course, all of it culminating in that annoying SNL monologue of Emma Stone saying "Gwen loves Spidey for Peter while Mary Jane is a <unpleasant word for sexually liberated lady>.

[Confuzzled]

"Face it, tiger" has never been done in film. MCU absolutely could have done that. They chose not to.

About that... Greg Weisman said in an interview that the network initially had reservations about including it on Spectacular too, saying it made her sound too full of herself... which is... WOW. Just wow.

[Kevinroc]

She is so glamorous and fashionable in real life. Zendaya is definitely not to blame for this mess (in fact, she makes the character work DESPITE the mess). The blame for this portrayal falls squarely on years of the idiotic narrative that traditional Mary Jane is a shallow trophy wife/unrealistic for Peter/not a "real" "relatable" female character (even though we knew from these forums and from fan letters that MJ had female fans right from the Silver Age who preferred her to Gwen) and of course, all of it culminating in that annoying SNL monologue of Emma Stone saying "Gwen loves Spidey for Peter while Mary Jane is a <unpleasant word for sexually liberated lady>.

Zendaya could absolutely have nailed Mary Jane. No issues at all with the casting. But they absolutely chose not to go there. And the movies are weaker for them.

About that... Greg Weisman said in an interview that the network initially had reservations about including it on Spectacular too, saying it made her sound too full of herself... which is... WOW. Just wow.

Yeah, I heard that story.

[Confuzzled]

Found the interview. He talks about it around the 1:40 part. It's worse than I remembered. They straight up said it was too conceited on her part.



Typical exec nonsense stemming from them thinking they know what's good for their target groups instead of trying to understand why the characters connect with fans in the first place.