Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2021

[NC_Yankee]

I want to believe that. I really do. But I remember the forum back in those days and there where a lot of flag waving for Slott. From Slott and Wacker themselves also.

If Slott was so popular at the time, then Wacker and ( especially) Slott himself would not be waving the flag. Why? No need the work would speak for itself. I also note this: The fairest evaluation of something is time. While Slott did some good work ( Spider Island, RYV and 801 for example), the majority of his work does not grade out well looking back at it: Peter as a man child, the way MJ and Felicia were written and arcs like Alpha, Silk, Queen Pin, Jackpot, BND for example. My problem above all with him was his attitude. I particularly hated the Charlie Brown comparison. Why? Charlie Brown was and always will be a loser. The point remains that Marvel liked his work and that is sad to say what matters most. Another clue to how much they do is they are going back to the BND era of multiple writers, and since they admitted Beyond was planned in December, 2020 it is not a desperation “Spur of the moment” deal.

[Spiderfan001]

If Slott was so popular at the time, then Wacker and ( especially) Slott himself would not be waving the flag. Why? No need the work would speak for itself. I also note this: The fairest evaluation of something is time. While Slott did some good work ( Spider Island, RYV and 801 for example), the majority of his work does not grade out well looking back at it: Peter as a man child, the way MJ and Felicia were written and arcs like Alpha, Silk, Queen Pin, Jackpot, BND for example. My problem above all with him was his attitude. I particularly hated the Charlie Brown comparison. Why? Charlie Brown was and always will be a loser. The point remains that Marvel liked his work and that is sad to say what matters most. Another clue to how much they do is they are going back to the BND era of multiple writers, and since they admitted Beyond was planned in December, 2020 it is not a desperation “Spur of the moment” deal.

Facts.
Slott even tweeted saying his job while writing ASM was finding new and worse ways to make Peter suffer.He never understood that Spider-man may fall down but never stays down.And it he will give it his all before falling and while getting back up.Making him a "couch surfer" is a disgrace to his character.

[NC_Yankee]

Facts.
Slott even tweeted saying his job while writing ASM was finding new and worse ways to make Peter suffer.He never understood that Spider-man may fall down but never stays down.And it he will give it his all before falling and while getting back up.Making him a "couch surfer" is a disgrace to his character.

In fairness to Slott he is not the only guilty party. Remember what Nick Lowe said about putting Peter through all kinds of things until he broke which is why a “Better Spider-Man” ( Ben Reilly) is needed? ( not his exact words but close enough). This is exactly what I am talking about. Marvel wants Peter to be some kind of whipping boy, and Slott being the “Company Man” did exactly that ( although in fairness he did a few good stories ( not enough however)). This also goes to two of my seven problems with the Spencer run. 1: The “Torture Porn” of Peter being tortured to death by Kindred and being brought back multiple times. I am waiting to see the first person who actually enjoyed that. I will also mention ( as before multiple times) the Pathetic Parker/Damsel In Distress. Peter is basically not good enough so he needs help from the Order of The Web and starting next week Ben Reilly.

[Spiderfan001]

In fairness to Slott he is not the only guilty party. Remember what Nick Lowe said about putting Peter through all kinds of things until he broke which is why a “Better Spider-Man” ( Ben Reilly) is needed? ( not his exact words but close enough). This is exactly what I am talking about. Marvel wants Peter to be some kind of whipping boy, and Slott being the “Company Man” did exactly that ( although in fairness he did a few good stories ( not enough however)). This also goes to two of my seven problems with the Spencer run. 1: The “Torture Porn” of Peter being tortured to death by Kindred and being brought back multiple times. I am waiting to see the first person who actually enjoyed that. I will also mention ( as before multiple times) the Pathetic Parker/Damsel In Distress. Peter is basically not good enough so he needs help from the Order of The Web and starting next week Ben Reilly.

Yeah they both don't get Spider-man or atleast this aspect.I'm all for other Spiders and/or Ben but they have their books/give them their own books, stop shoving them in ASM because no one buys them for their own characters........

[NC_Yankee]

Yeah they both don't get Spider-man or atleast this aspect.I'm all for other Spiders and/or Ben but they have their books/give them their own books, stop shoving them in ASM because no one buys them for their own characters........

This especially applies to Felicia. She is in a critically acclaimed series, but people just are not buying it. Now Marvel wants to force Felicia into a Ben Reilly story. Maybe, just maybe people do not like her and will not buy her ( unless she is with Spider-Man).

[Frontier]

This especially applies to Felicia. She is in a critically acclaimed series, but people just are not buying it. Now Marvel wants to force Felicia into a Ben Reilly story. Maybe, just maybe people do not like her and will not buy her ( unless she is with Spider-Man).

It's hard for a lot of books to make it in today's market, even really good ones.

[Spiderfan001]

This especially applies to Felicia. She is in a critically acclaimed series, but people just are not buying it. Now Marvel wants to force Felicia into a Ben Reilly story. Maybe, just maybe people do not like her and will not buy her ( unless she is with Spider-Man).

They are forcing both Ben and Felicia into a Doc Strange tie-in that works only for Peter.It's like your last wish being w/ your kid, but now they force kill him and that kid's friend has to do it but he has no connection to the Dad so no one cares.All the emotional weight is gone.

Black Cat just isn't on a solo selling level, she can do mini's at best.Catwoman is on the lower end of solo selling but she can sustain her own.

It's hard for a lot of books to make it in today's market, even really good ones.

Yeah, it sucks but it what it is.Most of the ones that don't sell are just bad, but Black Cat is a great book but her character doesn't have that type of fanbase.

[lalalei2001]

One thing I don't get about Spider-Man and Mary Jane being unable to get married is that they had to be approved to be married first. If Marvel editorial spent every waking moment looking for ways to get rid of the Spider-Marriage from its inception, why approve it at all?

[Spiderfan001]

One thing I don't get about Spider-Man and Mary Jane being unable to get married is that they had to be approved to be married first. If Marvel editorial spent every waking moment looking for ways to get rid of the Spider-Marriage from its inception, why approve it at all?

I think Ultimate Spider-man's success was part of it IIRC

[Frontier]

One thing I don't get about Spider-Man and Mary Jane being unable to get married is that they had to be approved to be married first. If Marvel editorial spent every waking moment looking for ways to get rid of the Spider-Marriage from its inception, why approve it at all?

It's complicated. Part of it was that Stan Lee wanted them married and Jim Shooter went along with it, as I recall.

[NC_Yankee]

One thing I don't get about Spider-Man and Mary Jane being unable to get married is that they had to be approved to be married first. If Marvel editorial spent every waking moment looking for ways to get rid of the Spider-Marriage from its inception, why approve it at all?

Back then you had constant growth in Peter. But Quesada and company chickened out and did not trust their audience to keep buying and they were concerned about the bottom line. If they did not want them married then divorce them. Or let them grow together as characters. Either option is better then OMD. The original idea is even less valid today because there are other Spider characters like Miles in particular and to a lesser extent Gwen that will sell. Today it is about being stubborn and refusing to admit they just might have been wrong. Instead, they double down on their mistake and add Miles, Otto and Norman to the deal mix, and come up with an insane motive for Mephisto ( Mayday might harm him). When Marvel figures out that people have no interest in seeing Peter suffer and ( or) lose (especially when it is unjustified ( like the “Torture Porn” at the hands of Sara who he actually helped)), then this monstrosity will end. I am going with Amazing 1000.

[Malachi]

If Slott was so popular at the time, then Wacker and ( especially) Slott himself would not be waving the flag. Why? No need the work would speak for itself. I also note this: The fairest evaluation of something is time. While Slott did some good work ( Spider Island, RYV and 801 for example), the majority of his work does not grade out well looking back at it: Peter as a man child, the way MJ and Felicia were written and arcs like Alpha, Silk, Queen Pin, Jackpot, BND for example. My problem above all with him was his attitude. I particularly hated the Charlie Brown comparison. Why? Charlie Brown was and always will be a loser. The point remains that Marvel liked his work and that is sad to say what matters most. Another clue to how much they do is they are going back to the BND era of multiple writers, and since they admitted Beyond was planned in December, 2020 it is not a desperation “Spur of the moment” deal.

It was pretty bad here. I was a enjoying JMS run even through the lows because he got the characters right. After OMD there was a propaganda war being won by Marvel. I used to go to crawlspace(if I remember that name correct) to get another perspecitve. Not to say that there wasn't good posts made by eloquent memebers here. They where just drowned out.

So even if time has judged Slott and his tenure in a more harsh light I still remember that there where many people very positive through his run. Especially the first half(roughly) of it.

As a MJ fan those years where not fun. It made me realise that even though I grew up with Peter for me they are linked and if you take away one from the other my desire to read the comics drops significantly.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

One thing I don't get about Spider-Man and Mary Jane being unable to get married is that they had to be approved to be married first. If Marvel editorial spent every waking moment looking for ways to get rid of the Spider-Marriage from its inception, why approve it at all?

Well obviously Marvel editorial didn't spend every waking moment.

The marriage happened in the 1980s as a result of a spontaneous accident where Lee and Shooter were publicly asked if they would be okay to marrying the characters and they said yes, then it was reported and passed around and it became a big hoopla which they saw as a big marketing thing and it got picked up by the mainstream media (one of the first times a major event in superhero comics got picked up in the non-comics press).

Shooter got fired in the middle of the Wedding issue coming out (for unrelated reasons) and Tom Defalco stepped in, and Defalco had no intentions of ending the marriage. It was only from the Clone Saga that it became this issue.

[NC_Yankee]

It was pretty bad here. I was a enjoying JMS run even through the lows because he got the characters right. After OMD there was a propaganda war being won by Marvel. I used to go to crawlspace(if I remember that name correct) to get another perspecitve. Not to say that there wasn't good posts made by eloquent memebers here. They where just drowned out.

So even if time has judged Slott and his tenure in a more harsh light I still remember that there where many people very positive through his run. Especially the first half(roughly) of it.

As a MJ fan those years where not fun. It made me realise that even though I grew up with Peter for me they are linked and if you take away one from the other my desire to read the comics drops significantly.

I am an MJ guy myself and Slott’s attitude toward her and the readers ( see the middle finger arc called Jackpot) was along with the Charlie Brown comparison and the man child were my biggest issues with Slott.

[K7P5V]

It's complicated. Part of it was that Stan Lee wanted them married and Jim Shooter went along with it, as I recall.

Those were good times (IMHO):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wedding!_(comics)