Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2021

[Kevinroc]

I wish they had just made Zendaya unapologetically Mary Jane Watson from the start.

Same. Would have been a statement.

TOM DEFALCO: You were the first artist to show us what Mary Jane Watson looked like. How did you design her?

JOHN ROMITA, SR: When we started to plot her first appearance in Amazing #42, Stan wasn’t sure if she should be beautiful or hideous. I was recently looking through the volume of Essential Spider-Man that reprinted some of Ditko’s issues and they referred to Mary Jane was beautiful. Stan has a terrible memory and obviously forgot. It’s a good thing we didn’t make her hideous, because we would have looked really foolish. Anyway, once we agreed on making her beautiful, we had the problem of trying to make her look really spectacular. Stan wanted her to look something like a go-go girl. I used Ann-Margret from the movie Bye Bye, Birdie as a guide, using her coloring, the shape of her face, her red hair and her form-fitting short skirts. I exaggerated her dimples and the cleft in her chin.

(From Comic Creator's on Spider-Man.)

Romita's vision for MJ was that she was "beautiful" and "really spectacular." I think that can be a powerful message to send with their casting. And I think they kind of muddled it with their presentation.

[Frontier]

Same. Would have been a statement.

(From Comic Creator's on Spider-Man.)

Romita's vision for MJ was that she was "beautiful" and "really spectacular." I think that can be a powerful message to send with their casting. And I think they kind of muddled it with their presentation.

I don't care about making a statement but Zendaya could've been a more comic-accurate MJ than she ended up being.

[witchboy]

The movie MJ doesn't have the same personality as comic MJ, but that's a problem with most of Peter's supporting cast in the movies. He's best friends with nerdy Ned, Flash is a cyber bully not a jock, Aunt May is a hot vivacious woman, MJ is a down to earth brain....they're not bad characters, but they're not the supporting cast I recognize from the comics. She's MJ in name only, the same as the rest of the supporting cast

[Kevinroc]

The supporting cast in the MCU films are pretty underdeveloped. And I don't care for making MJ into a science girl who wants to get into MIT. (Seems too much like they're trying to make her more like Gwen.)

[Frontier]

The supporting cast in the MCU films are pretty underdeveloped. And I don't care for making MJ into a science girl who wants to get into MIT. (Seems too much like they're trying to make her more like Gwen.)

She would've fit in Horizon High .

[Huntsman Spider]

At least in Flash's case, I could see what they were trying for; with "nerd culture" seemingly ascendant and more respected in the public consciousness compared to when a lot of us were growing up or when Spider-Man first debuted in the comics, particularly with nerds becoming rich and famous for building extremely successful, multibillion-dollar tech companies, the basic idea of "bullying jock vs. brainy nerd" could be argued as somewhat outdated, if not even stereotypical. If the core of bullying is exerting (or attempting to exert) dominance over someone else through insults, intimidation, and even abuse, then that is unfortunately something not limited merely to those who are physically stronger and more imposing, but anyone who has or feels they have a greater degree of power or status compared to someone else and is willing to leverage that perceived power or status to abuse, humiliate, and intimidate others.

In a nutshell, a 21st-century bully doesn't have to be an archetypal "dumb jock" who secretly envies and resents the "brainy nerd" for being smarter. One example, albeit from DC, is the Firestorm comics from the 1980s, which had one half of the titular hero be a friendly high school jock who was bullied by a nerd who thought himself superior based on his intelligence, flipping the classic Peter Parker/Flash Thompson dynamic on its head. As such, it's more plausible nowadays for even "nerds" to have a kind of hierarchy in which the ones who feel they're better or superior in some way lord it over those of their peers they deem inferior or lesser in comparison to themselves, which is sadly a universally human tendency.

As for Mary Jane vs. Michelle Jones, the original Ultimate Spider-Man comics did initially try to emphasize MJ as being both brainy and beautiful, to the point her nickname by some of her peers was "Brainy Jane," not to mention she was somewhat mocked by those same peers for still being friends (and eventually more) with Peter Parker even though she could have had her pick of handsome jocks or rich kids, so it wasn't like MCU was going completely out of left field with its version of MJ. That being said, a little more balance with the more familiar variant(s) of MJ could have helped with the character's reception, I would concede that much.

[Kevinroc]

She would've fit in Horizon High .

You see that a lot with them trying to make MJ into a character who seemingly "fits" more into Spidey's world. Peter's a nerdy guy so obviously he should be with a nerdy girl.

But it all feels very shallow, and misses the point of the character who has her own dreams, her own aspirations, for wanting to escape her unhappy and unfulfilled life.

[Frontier]

You see that a lot with them trying to make MJ into a character who seemingly "fits" more into Spidey's world. Peter's a nerdy guy so obviously he should be with a nerdy girl.

But it all feels very shallow, and misses the point of the character who has her own dreams, her own aspirations, for wanting to escape her unhappy and unfulfilled life.

Or a reporter, because she has to be involved with Spidey stuff like she's Lois Lane.

At least in Flash's case, I could see what they were trying for; with "nerd culture" seemingly ascendant and more respected in the public consciousness compared to when a lot of us were growing up or when Spider-Man first debuted in the comics, particularly with nerds becoming rich and famous for building extremely successful, multibillion-dollar tech companies, the basic idea of "bullying jock vs. brainy nerd" could be argued as somewhat outdated, if not even stereotypical. If the core of bullying is exerting (or attempting to exert) dominance over someone else through insults, intimidation, and even abuse, then that is unfortunately something not limited merely to those who are physically stronger and more imposing, but anyone who has or feels they have a greater degree of power or status compared to someone else and is willing to leverage that perceived power or status to abuse, humiliate, and intimidate others.

In a nutshell, a 21st-century bully doesn't have to be an archetypal "dumb jock" who secretly envies and resents the "brainy nerd" for being smarter. One example, albeit from DC, is the Firestorm comics from the 1980s, which had one half of the titular hero be a friendly high school jock who was bullied by a nerd who thought himself superior based on his intelligence, flipping the classic Peter Parker/Flash Thompson dynamic on its head. As such, it's more plausible nowadays for even "nerds" to have a kind of hierarchy in which the ones who feel they're better or superior in some way lord it over those of their peers they deem inferior or lesser in comparison to themselves, which is sadly a universally human tendency.

I feel like popular, physically intimidating, guys picking on people they view as weaker or less popular than them is quintessential in its own right. But that's just me.

As for Mary Jane vs. Michelle Jones, the original Ultimate Spider-Man comics did initially try to emphasize MJ as being both brainy and beautiful, to the point her nickname by some of her peers was "Brainy Jane," not to mention she was somewhat mocked by those same peers for still being friends (and eventually more) with Peter Parker even though she could have had her pick of handsome jocks or rich kids, so it wasn't like MCU was going completely out of left field with its version of MJ. That being said, a little more balance with the more familiar variant(s) of MJ could have helped with the character's reception, I would concede that much.

I kind of doubt that was in the mind of Watts and company in crafting the MCU take but even Bendis kind of dropped the "Brainy Jane" thing and just made her kind of an average girl when she ditched the glasses and started dating Peter.

[Kevinroc]

Or a reporter, because she has to be involved with Spidey stuff like she's Lois Lane.

I trust I've made it clear I'm not wild about reporter MJ either. Although I understand video game narratives have different needs than passive forms of media.

I do really love MJ's role as actress. And in a meta sense she's pretty much a chameleon within the context of Spidey stories. Able to take on any role the narrative requires for her, lol.

[Frontier]

I trust I've made it clear I'm not wild about reporter MJ either. Although I understand video game narratives have different needs than passive forms of media.

I do really love MJ's role as actress. And in a meta sense she's pretty much a chameleon within the context of Spidey stories. Able to take on any role the narrative requires for her, lol.

We need more civilian love interests with passions outside Superheroes .

[Lukmendes]

You see that a lot with them trying to make MJ into a character who seemingly "fits" more into Spidey's world. Peter's a nerdy guy so obviously he should be with a nerdy girl.

But it all feels very shallow, and misses the point of the character who has her own dreams, her own aspirations, for wanting to escape her unhappy and unfulfilled life.

Not to mention how lazy it is for a civilian character, but specially her, to

I trust I've made it clear I'm not wild about reporter MJ either. Although I understand video game narratives have different needs than passive forms of media.

Not an excuse, PS4 Spidey decided to focus on the Peter Parker side, yet everyone is connected with Spidey in some way, MJ by being a reporter, so she has a lot of contact with the Spider-Man side, Miles and aunt May by working at FEAST, which makes them connected with Mr. Negative, it wouldn't be needed if they just used the characters to be part of Peter's social life you can hang out with once in a while, but the game just had to make everything aggressively connected with Spider-Man.

At least aunt May wasn't as bad since she's more like someone who just happens to get involved in the middle of a crossfire, while Miles and MJ go too far for the sake of those, fucking cancerous stealth sections lol.

I do really love MJ's role as actress. And in a meta sense she's pretty much a chameleon within the context of Spidey stories. Able to take on any role the narrative requires for her, lol.

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[Frontier]

Not to mention how lazy it is for a civilian character, but specially her, to



Not an excuse, PS4 Spidey decided to focus on the Peter Parker side, yet everyone is connected with Spidey in some way, MJ by being a reporter, so she has a lot of contact with the Spider-Man side, Miles and aunt May by working at FEAST, which makes them connected with Mr. Negative, it wouldn't be needed if they just used the characters to be part of Peter's social life you can hang out with once in a while, but the game just had to make everything aggressively connected with Spider-Man.

At least aunt May wasn't as bad since she's more like someone who just happens to get involved in the middle of a crossfire, while Miles and MJ go too far for the sake of those, fucking cancerous stealth sections lol.

At least they still gave the feel of us seeing Peter Parker's life and how it coincides with his Spider-Man life even if there wasn't as clear a separation between the two.

But, like, still better than some other media adaptions in my opinion...

[Lukmendes]

Not to mention how lazy it is for a civilian character, but specially her, to

Lol I forgot to finish this one, was gonna say that specially bad for MJ to be so aggressively connected with the Spidey side when she had her own life mostly disconnected from it.

At least they still gave the feel of us seeing Peter Parker's life and how it coincides with his Spider-Man life even if there wasn't as clear a separation between the two.

At least there was that, but it's still lame Peter and Spider-Man are so inter connected when there was no real need.

But, like, still better than some other media adaptions in my opinion...

I don't care about crap adaptations doing a crap job, if we're praising the ways PS4 Spidey understood Spider-Man, it's also worth criticizing where they screwed up.

[Frontier]

Happy Holidays .

At least there was that, but it's still lame Peter and Spider-Man are so inter connected when there was no real need.

I think in the context of what the story was going for and how the game functioned, and how the story kind of served as one big Spider-Man movie, it made sense how they approached it.

I don't care about crap adaptations doing a crap job, if we're praising the ways PS4 Spidey understood Spider-Man, it's also worth criticizing where they screwed up.

I guess we would just argue the degree to whether they screwed up.

[John Venus]

The supporting cast in the MCU films are pretty underdeveloped. And I don't care for making MJ into a science girl who wants to get into MIT. (Seems too much like they're trying to make her more like Gwen.)

OG Gwen didn't really have much going for her. She had a passing interest in science and wasn't really a 'geek' until Spectacular Spider-Man decided to go all in on that aspect.

The two characters have been interchangeable since the Raimi movies. Raimi's MJ had more in common with comic book Gwen than MJ; sweet girl next door type personality, the bridge scene, perpetual damsel in distress and didn't have much of the joy and lust for life that comic book MJ had. Then he brought in his Gwen who was more 'exciting' than MJ. In the comics, it was the reverse.

In the Ultimate Universe, MJ was the brainy nerd, Peter's best friend, girlfriend and secret confidant. In the Amazing Spider-Man films, they gave that role to Gwen, even casting Emma Stone who would have been a shoe in for a comic accurate MJ.