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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm fine with Superman aging normally as well.

    Because he's a comic book character created for a corporation not a figure born out of an existing culture's mythology and religion. You really have to stretch the definition of a myth to classify Superman as one.
    Plus, in-universe he isn't a mythical figure, but a simple kryptonian under a yellow sun. He's an alien sure, but he's an humanoid nonetheless, born from parents, evolution and the like. Meanwhile, entities like Zeus, Darkseid, Cernunnos, etc. are mythical beings, and even the Amazons are not just women who ended on an island but something more than just humans*, at least in a lot of depictions I know off.

    *or perhaps more accurately they came to be in ways which weren't necessarily human ?

  2. #32
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Because he's a comic book character created for a corporation not a figure born out of an existing culture's mythology and religion. You really have to stretch the definition of a myth to classify Superman as one.
    which corporation?wb?they didn't even own the character.Siegel and shuster were pitching the story to newspapers.That's what the character was for and got rejected.Later found a home in national comics.this isn't a batman or captain marvel situation where the head of the department says "look,we need this kinda character.pronto".As for culture and religion,the guy's story touches upon religious themes as either moses or jesus.Just like monkey king touches on buddhism,taoism and confucianism .These stories where made for entertainment,poking fun and hiding some morals.the same as superman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Plus, in-universe he isn't a mythical figure, but a simple kryptonian under a yellow sun. He's an alien sure, but he's an humanoid nonetheless, born from parents, evolution and the like. Meanwhile, entities like Zeus, Darkseid, Cernunnos, etc. are mythical beings, and even the Amazons are not just women who ended on an island but something more than just humans*, at least in a lot of depictions I know off.

    *or perhaps more accurately they came to be in ways which weren't necessarily human ?
    In universe,he becomes the stuff of legends.Sun god or not.They are all born.They are all humans and humanoids.They all evolved one way or another.Gods are all human(unless you are egyptian or asian).darkseid,zeus every single one of them.Amazons are demi gods.Makes no difference.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-18-2021 at 11:32 AM.
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  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    No. Greek Gods are not akin at all to humans. They look humans but it's just cosmetic. They are the daughters and sons of Time, son of the Sky and the Earth, litteraly.

    Kal-El is simply a Kryptonian, his species as never demonstrated abilities akin to Gods' outside of their home planet in most continuities.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Plus, in-universe he isn't a mythical figure, but a simple kryptonian under a yellow sun. He's an alien sure, but he's an humanoid nonetheless, born from parents, evolution and the like. Meanwhile, entities like Zeus, Darkseid, Cernunnos, etc. are mythical beings, and even the Amazons are not just women who ended on an island but something more than just humans*, at least in a lot of depictions I know off.

    *or perhaps more accurately they came to be in ways which weren't necessarily human ?
    Justice League characters each have Greek Myth analogs. Superman's is Zeus, Wonder Woman is Athena, Aquaman is Poseidon, the Flash is Hermes, Batman is Hades, (He is the god of wealth and the Underworld), Cyborg is Hephaestus.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kalbfus View Post
    Justice League characters each have Greek Myth analogs. Superman's is Zeus, Wonder Woman is Athena, Aquaman is Poseidon, the Flash is Hermes, Batman is Hades, (He is the god of wealth and the Underworld), Cyborg is Hephaestus.
    Perhaps, but he isn't a god, just a dude with powers who happens to be an alien. He has no mythology in the world, no priesthood, no sacred texts or oral mysteries, etc. The JL may be analogues to the Greek pantheon but Batman isn't a god either. I mean, come on.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    which corporation?wb?they didn't even own the character.Siegel and shuster were pitching the story to newspapers.That's what the character was for and got rejected.Later found a home in national comics.
    Yeah, none of this disputes my argument.


    As for culture and religion,the guy's story touches upon religious themes as either moses or jesus.
    Touching on religious themes does not a character of myth make.
    These stories where made for entertainment,poking fun and hiding some morals.
    So was Spongebob Squarepants. I don't see anyone else calling him a creature of myth.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 01-19-2021 at 03:29 AM.

  7. #37
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Yeah, none of this disputes my argument.




    Touching on religious themes does not a character of myth make.


    So was Spongebob Squarepants. I don't see anyone else calling him a creature of myth.


    In universe,he becomes the stuff of legends.Sun god or not.They are all born.They are all humans and humanoids.They all evolved one way or another.Gods are all human(unless you are egyptian or asian).darkseid,zeus every single one of them.Amazons are demi gods.Makes no difference.
    what disputes your argument?you think monkey kings's or any these stories weren't "pitched" as they call it to people of power and resources to get reach? they are.

    what does a myth make?The monkey king is novel that poked fun,remphasized the value system of major religions that existed in china at the time.Merlin and fairy queen..etc are all from local folklore.It's not some religious text.John henry is also a folklore.They all have experiences of people of that time inside on some level.

    Did i ever say spongebob square pants can't be a figure of myth?he can.He just needs to have as much impact and endure as much.You don't need a crown or some attire for whatever time.Normally,myths stories of dead cultures/ religions for westerners or for stories of non-monothestic background.I don't hold much wait to that definition.It's just a way of trivialising other stories.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-18-2021 at 09:22 PM.
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  8. #38
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    When did the immortality come into play? I thought he aged slower than earth people.

  9. #39
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    I don't like immortal clark and I don't like him aging slowly ,I Like him growing old like humans ..
    Last edited by Superfamily; 01-19-2021 at 09:33 PM.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfamily View Post
    I don't like immortal clark and I don't like him aging slowly ,I Like him growing old like humans ..
    It's surreal to see so many people share my opinion on this. Every discussion I've had, everyone wants him aging slowly or nigh immortal. Weird.

  11. #41
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    No. Greek Gods are not akin at all to humans. They look humans but it's just cosmetic. They are the daughters and sons of Time, son of the Sky and the Earth, litteraly.
    So?They act human.They look like us.The are given humanoid strutures for relatability.why do you think superman looks like us?sky and earth are given human features.They aren't depicted as shapless elements coming together.

    what are you saying?his species is a bunch of superbeings.depending on the version they have demonstrated powers and have done feats outside and inside their home planet krypton.The sun god as a concept emerged in mort weisinger era.He was a batman fan who wanted to differentiate him from batman.So he decided to make the dude invincible on earth.Outside of it,he wanted to show of superman's competence without power.That's how they decided to make superman differ from batman.Otherwise,batman is superman with a batcostume and some mumbo jumbo about "tech,contingency and planning"
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-19-2021 at 10:51 PM.
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  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    So?They act human.They look like us.The are given humanoid strutures for relatability.why do you think superman looks like us?sky and earth are given human features.They aren't depicted as shapless elements coming together.

    what are you saying?his species is a bunch of superbeings.depending on the version they have demonstrated powers and have done feats outside and inside their home planet krypton.The sun god as a concept emerged in mort weisinger era.He was a batman fan who wanted to differentiate him from batman.So he decided to make the dude invincible on earth.Outside of it,he wanted to show of superman's competence without power.That's how they decided to make superman differ from batman.Otherwise,batman is superman with a batcostume and some mumbo jumbo about "tech,contingency and planning"
    They are still not mythical in essence. Twist it all you want but Superman is not a god nor a being born out of myth and trying to push that angle has hurt the character deeply, I think.

  13. #43
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Superman isn't a god for a very simple reason. He is accountable to the world. People can question and defy gods, but the gods don't have to justify their actions in the view of society. Manwhohaseverything desires a type of Superman who absolutely does not have to justifiy anything he does, but I think the overwhelming majority of people think Superman should be accountable.

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Superman isn't a god for a very simple reason. He is accountable to the world. People can question and defy gods, but the gods don't have to justify their actions in the view of society. Manwhohaseverything desires a type of Superman who absolutely does not have to justifiy anything he does, but I think the overwhelming majority of people think Superman should be accountable.
    That depends. I'm personally all for a return of New 52 Superman, who was by far the most heroic ever to me because he didn't gave a shit about what corrupt societies considered legal, when it protected the powerful and allowed them to abuse their power and influence. I wouldn't want a bloodless Superman like most of his takes appears to me; that's why I loved Superman of Metropolis.

  15. #45
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Every society is corrupt. Clark's own native United States is certainly an example of that. At any case, I think Clark should absolutely understand the nuances of geoplitics, not just on an internatinal level, but also the complicated internal cultures of many societies. As cultural american, Clark isn't the best person to comment on the morality of middle eastern societies. Heck, the "protest" in Capitol Hill is proof that there are fundamental divisions between how parts of his own country affirm reality itself. He can certainly defend his beliefs, and push his agenda, but there are dire consequences whenever he chooses to interfere in a foreign government.

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