Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 59 of 59
  1. #46
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfamily View Post
    I don't like immortal clark and I don't like him aging slowly ,I Like him growing old like humans ..
    Wow that is an interesting dynamic for the Trinity then. Both Superman and Batman would age normally while the Amazon would not

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    3,085

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Wow that is an interesting dynamic for the Trinity then. Both Superman and Batman would age normally while the Amazon would not
    I actually like Diana aging normally when off-island. It's not going to happen, but it's my preference. Also don't like her Zeus's child or at all divine (there's a tendency to make her a goddess of some sort).
    Last edited by Tzigone; 01-20-2021 at 02:41 PM.

  3. #48
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    6,271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    They are still not mythical in essence. Twist it all you want but Superman is not a god nor a being born out of myth and trying to push that angle has hurt the character deeply, I think.
    That's your opinion, doesn't make it true. Hate to break it to you, mythical in essence for you is a guy wearing some outfit from medieval time and talking in dated fashion. That too english, not ancient greek or whatever.They can give clark some kryptonian rob and talk like that. He would be a god to you.

    You haven't proven that greek gods or roman or even norse gods aren't humanoid with flaws of a man like pride, envy, wrath, fear, courage .. Etc. That's by design. I don't need to twist anything.That's superman's history. Also, God's aren't the only things with immortality. It's just greek, roman or norse protagonists are largely human(god or not). They are never birds, fishes, dragons, monkeys, chimeras or whatever in most cases. These stories have largely heroes that are either gods(zeus was hero too), demi gods and humans. Ofcourse, modern times has changed that. But, that dichotomy is what dictates still dictate perception. For people, gods are powerful humans with a command of a domain and humans are unskillful individuals on average with demi gods being in between .They can't see beyond that concept. They can't relate to it. (To be fair, there are some native tribal stories with these kinda creatures as protagonist).Hence, guys like martian manhunter never get popular. I can see why they pushed clark into a god and a human status in story. I mean, he looks like us and is powerful. I can see why you would hate it. Because that's the only form of relationship two things can have for these guys where one dominates the other. Either clark has to be a god criticising or controling or giving sermons to humanity up above. Or he has to be a human making a mess of things. but still trying, rather obtuse at times who can't relate to things that aren't familiar to them. Clark is neither a man nor a god or a demi god. That doesn't negate being mythical.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-20-2021 at 10:35 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Toulouse, France
    Posts
    4,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Every society is corrupt. Clark's own native United States is certainly an example of that. At any case, I think Clark should absolutely understand the nuances of geoplitics, not just on an internatinal level, but also the complicated internal cultures of many societies. As cultural american, Clark isn't the best person to comment on the morality of middle eastern societies. Heck, the "protest" in Capitol Hill is proof that there are fundamental divisions between how parts of his own country affirm reality itself. He can certainly defend his beliefs, and push his agenda, but there are dire consequences whenever he chooses to interfere in a foreign government.
    That's why I love New 52 Superman. he tackled the US corruption. Several times.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Toulouse, France
    Posts
    4,050

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    That's your opinion, doesn't make it true. Hate to break it to you, mythical in essence for you is a guy wearing some outfit from medieval time and talking in dated fashion. That too english, not ancient greek or whatever.They can give clark some kryptonian rob and talk like that. He would be a god to you.

    You haven't proven that greek gods or roman or even norse gods aren't humanoid with flaws of a man like pride, envy, wrath, fear, courage .. Etc. That's by design. I don't need to twist anything.That's superman's history. Also, God's aren't the only things with immortality. It's just greek, roman or norse protagonists are largely human(god or not). They are never birds, fishes, dragons, monkeys, chimeras or whatever in most cases. These stories have largely heroes that are either gods(zeus was hero too), demi gods and humans. Ofcourse, modern times has changed that. But, that dichotomy is what dictates still dictate perception. For people, gods are powerful humans with a command of a domain and humans are unskillful individuals on average with demi gods being in between .They can't see beyond that concept. They can't relate to it. (To be fair, there are some native tribal stories with these kinda creatures as protagonist).Hence, guys like martian manhunter never get popular. I can see why they pushed clark into a god and a human status in story. I mean, he looks like us and is powerful. I can see why you would hate it. Because that's the only form of relationship two things can have for these guys where one dominates the other. Either clark has to be a god criticising or controling or giving sermons to humanity up above. Or he has to be a human making a mess of things. but still trying, rather obtuse at times who can't relate to things that aren't familiar to them. Clark is neither a man nor a god or a demi god. That doesn't negate being mythical.
    No, you don't understand at all what being a mythical entity entails, clearly. I don't care about how Clark clothes or how he spraks. He's a mortal, not a creature born out of folktale, religion or myths, that's as simple as that.

    And you're clearly showing you don't really udnerstand what the Greek, Norse, Celtic or generally western Pantheons of old are. They look humans, they have flaws but they are NOT humans. They all created Mankind in some way. That's a distinct divergence between them and Humanity. And the Fairies, Sprites, etc. are not humans either. Superman is only an alien, a natural being. His essence is of this world not the world of myths. It's a matter of essence, of nature, not of the way they act. And more often than not, those Pantheons were respected but they hadn't the Monotheistic absolute control over Mankind.
    Last edited by Korath; 01-21-2021 at 12:06 AM.

  6. #51
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    6,271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    No, you don't understand at all what being a mythical entity entails, clearly. I don't care about how Clark clothes or how he spraks. He's a mortal, not a creature born out of folktale, religion or myths, that's as simple as that.

    And you're clearly showing you don't really udnerstand what the Greek, Norse, Celtic or generally western Pantheons of old are. They look humans, they have flaws but they are NOT humans. They all created Mankind in some way. That's a distinct divergence between them and Humanity. And the Fairies, Sprites, etc. are not humans either. Superman is only an alien, a natural being. His essence is of this world not the world of myths. It's a matter of essence, of nature, not of the way they act. And more often than not, those Pantheons were respected but they hadn't the Monotheistic absolute control over Mankind.
    You do understand,you are teaching a guy that isn't a monotheist.right?How does having absolute control over humanity matter?for that matter,how does that negate being human?Heck!the god in monothestic religions like christianity,judaism,islam..etc is humans with absolute control.Bible is basically a father-son story.i am gonna end this with one sentence.Dude!An alien is basically a modern yokai.And You don't understand how a folktale is created.These start as just stories and gets embedded in culture of birth.As yokai,Some may look like us.But doesn't make them us.Some might be god tier.But,that doesn't make them gods.Just like fairies,sprites,pixies..etc.They are of not our world,an alien isn't either .You say "Not Human".Yet,zeus is the guy who got fooled.Odin is the guy who gets killed.That's more human than anything.Period.I can understand allegories,significance and symbolisms of these guys.But,saying these guys aren't humanoids is quite foolish.It would be idiotic for me to say shiva, nezha ,Susanoo..etc are't humanoids.when they clearly are.

    "They look human and they have flaws but are not humans".that description applies to superman.That's a description of a humanoid.And you are saying clark is a god too.Whether they(the western gods) created mankind or mankind became a thing as natural progression of the universe or some omni-potent father up in the sky created us is irrelvant.Those guys are basically us amped upto eleven.I mean,we can create too you know.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,006

    Default

    This fanbase really needs to get over its "Superman is looking down on the human race" paranoia. You guys think Superman having longevity means he's looking down on humanity, that's absolutely nuts. You guys are jumping at nothing, seeing faces in smoke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Every society is corrupt. Clark's own native United States is certainly an example of that. At any case, I think Clark should absolutely understand the nuances of geoplitics, not just on an internatinal level, but also the complicated internal cultures of many societies. As cultural american, Clark isn't the best person to comment on the morality of middle eastern societies. Heck, the "protest" in Capitol Hill is proof that there are fundamental divisions between how parts of his own country affirm reality itself. He can certainly defend his beliefs, and push his agenda, but there are dire consequences whenever he chooses to interfere in a foreign government.
    Superman isn't a politician. He doesn't have to tip toe around geopolitical nuances whether they be on American, international, or intergalactic. Superheroes are superpowered vigilantes who by and large do what they think is right, it's the nature of the genre which Superman himself is one of the original architects of.
    Last edited by The World; 01-21-2021 at 06:20 AM.
    Rules are for lesser men, Charlie - Grand Pa Joe ~ Willy Wonka & Chocolate Factory

  8. #53
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,352

    Default

    Wtf are you talkint about. He could start world war 3 if he doesn't do things the right way. To be clear, I think he could still involve himself in dictatorships, but just jumping over there and kidnapping the leader would be a pretty terrible way to do it. I think his stories could be about "how would we fix these issues if we had someone good, rational and indestructible"? In other words, if we had an unstoppable leader, how would he reverse the self destructive ans abusive pattern that all of humanity keeps repeating. But once again, taking out the leader all of a sudden would be the worst way to do it. Suddenly either he assumes power, or everyond else would be fighting for the seat. Killing hitler wouldn't have ended world war 2 sooner.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    But once again, taking out the leader all of a sudden would be the worst way to do it. Suddenly either he assumes power, or everyond else would be fighting for the seat. Killing hitler wouldn't have ended world war 2 sooner.
    it would if in 1939 Superman made it clear that Hitler was just the opening round. If Fuhrer 2.0 kept up the same tricks, then he suffers the same fate. And then Fuhrer 3.0 and so on until we get someone less prone to invading their neighbors (or we run out of Nazis).

    The only thing that might throw a wrench into that would be if there were other beings on Superman's level (Zod, Shazam!, Diana) or having a Superman who has an easily exploited weakness. Unless he can still be taken out by a large enough bomb or someone trips across kryptonite/red sun (it's not loke this Superman is going to hand out a list of weaknesses that people then know to look for) he pretty much can interfere anywhere he wants..

  10. #55
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,352

    Default

    Do you realize that a guy who threatens to kill every single dictator actually ends up being more of a threat to the world? Ecery single world leader would worry about the day when they themselves were considered corrupt or unjust and taken out by Superman. Much more likely for them to spend their time coordinating with other countries in a search for how to kill Superman than for them to try to be less corrupt. Lois would probably be kidnapped and things would start escalating from there.

    And even if you threaten the government of a dictatorship, there's a whole nation wide infrastructure around them. It's not like the Holocaust was predicated upon the orders of the Fuhrer. Every single person there chose to carry those acts and most of them did it with pleasure. Most people wouldn't actually think they are notable enough for Superman to go after.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Do you realize that a guy who threatens to kill every single dictator actually ends up being more of a threat to the world? Ecery single world leader would worry about the day when they themselves were considered corrupt or unjust and taken out by Superman. Much more likely for them to spend their time coordinating with other countries in a search for how to kill Superman than for them to try to be less corrupt.
    Hitler isn't taken out for being a dictator. He's taken out for invading Poland. Superman might intervene earlier than 1939 but he's not going there in 1933 and my scenario is that he basically waited for other nations to declare war beforehand. Something closer to the strip where he scooped up Hitler and Stalin and turned them over to some World Court..

    And if the objective is simply to cut down the length of WW2, it works. Superman isn't landing in London or Paris and issuing ultimatums. The governments might fear the possibility of Superman turning on them, but that is going to be the case simply one he exists. Do you really think FDR and the Congress won't have the same fear even if Superman limits himself to saving kittens from trees and dealing with national disasters. If you assume they are paranoid enough to fear him putting down Hitler, they are paranoid to fear him even when he seems apolitical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    And even if you threaten the government of a dictatorship, there's a whole nation wide infrastructure around them. It's not like the Holocaust was predicated upon the orders of the Fuhrer. Every single person there chose to carry those acts and most of them did it with pleasure. Most people wouldn't actually think they are notable enough for Superman to go after.
    Actually the Holocaust was predicated on Hitler's orders. The people who carried out the "Final Solution" don't get a free pass, but the majority of them only did what they did because the government authorized it. Not "we were just following orders" but "we are too big of cowards to try killing 11 million people on our own". Same way that post-Stalin Russia never reached the level of mass killings Stalin had ordered once Papa Joe was out of the picture.

  12. #57
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1,352

    Default

    Ok, so give me an example of what you believe Superman would change about the world of today, and how.

  13. #58
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    285

    Default

    superman is mortal and immortal. he is born mortal but the stronger he becomes, the more his aging slows down, reaching the point of stopping completely and being immortal. To be immortal he would have to absorb energy for 60 years (he would end up looking like Superman Kingdom Come), in this way Superman could decide for himself. It would be incredible a comic that shows us superman facing that decision.

  14. #59
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,721

    Default

    Since we were talking about aging it got me to thinking aboush Kal's body in other ways. Everyone knows he is invulnerable to conventional means of harm when compared to humans. However, on occasion he will run into alien tech more advanced than party's human technologies (like Almeracian, Sangtee, or those spider-techno-hybrid creepy people from whom Decine hails).

    My question is this: how do you see his body's response to physical compromise? Would he instantly regenerate? Would it take comparable time to that of a human?

    And how do you see his ability to handle pain?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •