Sorry I'm Late! The Flash (Barry Allen) Appreciation 2021

[Frontier]

Yeah I’m expecting it to be John as well, especially with John being the guy they’re going with for the film (if they ever get around to making that).

I'd rather they do something different than just go for movie synergy for a film that's not even on the docket compared to the HBOMax show.

Like, pair Barry and Simon together. They can probably do a Wally/Kyle thing.

[Johnny]

Yeah I’m expecting it to be John as well, especially with John being the guy they’re going with for the film (if they ever get around to making that).

As a GL fan I'd like nothing more than for Hal to be done justice in outside media, but from an objective and business standpoint DC just doesn't need to do that and their current regime clearly seem to think so too. They would likely only feature Hal in outside media from now if he serves a purpose for another character(turning him into Parallax, replacing him, etc) Anyway I did not mean to hijack Barry's thread, I just wanted to respond to another comment who wondered if Hal was the only Leaguer left that given the rest of the roster and recent developments of the GL franchise, the possibility of Hal being one of the main characters in this animated universe is slim to none. I'm looking forward to Barry interacting with Jay in JS: WWII.

[John Venus]

Poor Hal. He just doesn't get a fair shake. Face of the GL franchise since 2005, longest running start of the main GL title, one successful animated movie, beloved animated show, the default GL in every cartoon adaptation movies and shows since 2010, he just doesn't get a good shot compared to John, Guy and Kyle does.

[Johnny]

Never suggested that Hal hasn't had his time, I said I would have liked for him to be done justice after WB so grossly botched his 2011 movie that turned him into a punchline. I also find it amusing how you talk about him being the face of the GL franchise for so long, while purposely ignoring how WB started treating him not too long after the crashing of that movie and fully jumped on Reynolds' bandwagon to mock it afterwards. Did you miss how they treated him in The Lego Movies,or his portrayal in DC Super Hero Girls, or the jokes in Teen Titans Go To The Movies, or whatever it was they did to him in that Darkseid War movie whose writer then went to twitter to mock people who complained about how he was treated in it. Now they reboot their animated universe and Hal is the only founding Leaguer not expected to come back. I think your comment probably wasn't the hot take you seem to think it was.

[Hol]

Never suggested that Hal hasn't had his time, I said I would have liked for him to be done justice after WB so grossly botched his 2011 movie that turned him into a punchline. I also find it amusing how you talk about him being the face of the GL franchise for so long, while purposely ignoring how WB started treating him not too long after the crashing of that movie and fully jumped on Reynolds' bandwagon to mock it afterwards. Did you miss how they treated him in The Lego Movies,or his portrayal in DC Super Hero Girls, or the jokes in Teen Titans Go To The Movies, or whatever it was they did to him in that Darkseid War movie whose writer then went to twitter to mock people who complained about how he was treated in it. Now they reboot their animated universe and Hal is the only founding Leaguer not expected to come back. I think your comment probably wasn't the hot take you seem to think it was.

I haven't read Darkseid War in a couple years...how was Hal treated?

I have seen on these boards lots of people saying Hal has been treated poorly or just not been used a lot and I just don't see it.

[Johnny]

He was killed in a 3 second flashback scene with no dialogue. He was the only founding JL member in that movie who got that kind of treatment(Aquaman did too but he wasn't a JL founder in that animated universe, while he will be in the current one). After fans complained about it on twitter, Mairghread Scott who co-wrote the movie mocked them for it saying that 3 seconds was all the Hal Jordan she needed. I think it's fair to say no professional writer would publicly say anything like this about any other Green Lantern character.

[Hol]

He was killed in a 3 second flashback scene with no dialogue. He was the only founding JL member in that movie who got that kind of treatment(Aquaman did too but he wasn't a JL founder in that animated universe, while he will be in the current one). After fans complained about it on twitter, Mairghread Scott who co-wrote the movie mocked them for it saying that 3 seconds was all the Hal Jordan she needed. I think it's fair to say no professional writer would publicly say anything like this about any other Green Lantern character.

Oh there was an animated movie for Darkseid War? I thought you meant the comics. I don't really watch the animated movies anymore. Haven't since Flashpoint Paradox. That DOES seem like an unusal thing for a creator to say about a character. In the comics though I still think Hal as been the most prominent GL in the aggregate.

[Vordan]

I'd rather they do something different than just go for movie synergy for a film that's not even on the docket compared to the HBOMax show.

Like, pair Barry and Simon together. They can probably do a Wally/Kyle thing.

It’s always weird what they synergize and what they don’t. Iris being black in the animated movie is synergy with the TV/film but Barry is still a blonde? Wally is retaking the Flash mantle just as the Flash movie is about to come out (maybe they don’t have any faith in Ezra lmao)? Very scattershot approach.

[MajorHoy]

It’s always weird what they synergize and what they don’t. Iris being black in the animated movie is synergy with the TV/film but Barry is still a blonde? Wally is retaking the Flash mantle just as the Flash movie is about to come out (maybe they don’t have any faith in Ezra lmao)? Very scattershot approach.

I'm sorry, but sometimes the original comic books shouldn't have to kowtow to later movie / TV versions.

[Frontier]

It’s always weird what they synergize and what they don’t. Iris being black in the animated movie is synergy with the TV/film but Barry is still a blonde? Wally is retaking the Flash mantle just as the Flash movie is about to come out (maybe they don’t have any faith in Ezra lmao)? Very scattershot approach.

Well, I feel like it might be better than line-wide synergy because you can better serve different tastes/fandoms instead of just pushing a uniform take or character over others, but I'm usually anti-synergy.

[Digifiend]

If you want to do synergy, have an AU. If DC had a version of the Ultimate Universe, they could make the West family black, have a non-white hero as a founding Leaguer, shift people's ages around, etc, and it wouldn't be a problem. I think the main universe comics are the only place still using a white Iris nowadays.

I don't think Barry was treated as much of a nerd in the same way Peter was until much, much later.

Oh, he was a nerd from the start. His first appearance established that he was an adult who still read comic books, remember. That wasn't seen as mainstream until at least 20 years later, at the time they were seen as kids stuff and anyone who still read them as adults was either refusing to grow up, or a geek/nerd.

[Dred]

It's never presented as him being awkward or nerdy, I mean the comic book thing despite being critical to his origin isn't a focus of the character like, say, Peter's school life.

Also I figured if you want to promote diversity and have stories with interracial families you could just...use characters that are interracial families...like the Wests already are. You think the fact that the Wests were comics' first major interracial family (like, starring in their own main line comic book) would be a point of pride.

I always find it horrifyingly disingenuous that people think it makes sense for a company racebend supporting characters. If the company that makes these actually gave the slightest iota of care about diversity Barry would be the character who is black. Because Barry is the only character in these features that is going to appear in other movies and him still being a straight white male makes your main line just as non-diverse. This cockamamie half measure stuff riles me. Actually create a diverse line.

[Frontier]

I wonder if they'd intended for Iris to be black from the start or if it was just a case of going with the actress that was black that made them do it.

I remember in Death of Superman they made Cat Grant black like her VA, although they didn't do the same for Mercy Graves.

[John Venus]

Never suggested that Hal hasn't had his time, I said I would have liked for him to be done justice after WB so grossly botched his 2011 movie that turned him into a punchline. I also find it amusing how you talk about him being the face of the GL franchise for so long, while purposely ignoring how WB started treating him not too long after the crashing of that movie and fully jumped on Reynolds' bandwagon to mock it afterwards. Did you miss how they treated him in The Lego Movies,or his portrayal in DC Super Hero Girls, or the jokes in Teen Titans Go To The Movies, or whatever it was they did to him in that Darkseid War movie whose writer then went to twitter to mock people who complained about how he was treated in it. Now they reboot their animated universe and Hal is the only founding Leaguer not expected to come back. I think your comment probably wasn't the hot take you seem to think it was.

Oh no, he got made fun of in a show and a movie built entirely on characters being made fun of and he died gruesomely in a movie that was about everybody dying.

Oh there was an animated movie for Darkseid War? I thought you meant the comics. I don't really watch the animated movies anymore. Haven't since Flashpoint Paradox. That DOES seem like an unusal thing for a creator to say about a character. In the comics though I still think Hal as been the most prominent GL in the aggregate.

He is talking about Justice League Dark: Apokolips War which was the big finale to NU52 inspired movies. Hal didn't any more gruesomely than anyone else. We saw Batgirl and Zatanna getting eaten alive by Parademons, Starfire's inside spilled all over the place then later turned into a killer cyborg and Dick Grayson mentally broken to the point of being in a straight jacket and just drooling every where.

[Johnny]

Oh no, he got made fun of in a show and a movie built entirely on characters being made fun of and he died gruesomely in a movie that was about everybody dying.

He was the only founding JL member who had no actual role in that movie. And while DCSHG may not be meant to be taken seriously, he's the only character deliberately portrayed as someone who deserves to be treated like a douche that other heroes don't want to be around. As I said before, do you see any other GL being publicly mocked by folks who actually write for DC? Your argument about him being the face of a franchise doesn't hold up when DC neither promotes him anymore, nor features him in regular publication, or if he happens to be featured in anything outside of comics he's deliberately portrayed in an unflattering manner. If you don't mind DC treating him as some irrelevant joke for being unfortunate enough to be in one bad movie from 10 years ago, just because you don't seem to care for the character, suit yourself. This thread has been derailed enough, so I don't plan to keep this going any further.