What has been the most surprising thing you learned from the reaction to WW1984?

[Frontier]

It was at first glance, but when you re-read the run and take into account Diana's assessment of her mental state in the next chapter of "the Truth," it becomes more clear that isn't a sacrifice on Barbara's part (at least not completely). The sacrifice was just a convenient excuse for the "addict' to slip back into her old pattern.

I get that. But it still feels like part of the mixed messaging regarding Barbara's character and kind of weakens her Cheetah to me.

I think the actual event should have been shown, and maybe it would have had he stayed on the book. But I think Barbara is clearly established as a brash glory seeker who deflects blame for her own failings onto others (chiefly Diana and Cale, but also even earlier with Dr. Martins) and isn't a reliable narrator to the point where we don't really need it shown. Her own personality and the dialogue of other characters paints the picture we need.

Same when she rejects Diana and Circe's help out of spite.

I feel like the traits are present to some degree but not to the extent where the Cheetah tranfsormation is as believable as it could have been, or as built-up to because we jumped around so much. She can be an unreliable narrator but I think we need more on-panel evidence of her true character than what we actually got and not so much mixed messaging.

I don't know, the film has received criticism for her arc being put on the back burner and her switch seeming abrupt. The stone could be influencing her and exaggerating traits that are already there, but while Wiig's early scenes are great, we also needed more time to get to know her in order to know for sure where she truly ends and the wish effects really begin. I think Rucka's paints a more nuanced picture of what Barbara is like pre-Cheetah than this movie is able to.

I don't think it was put on the back burner when the scenes of her slowly transforming into the person she ends up as is parallel to everything else, so it didn't really feel abrupt to me. I don't think it was the stone's influence beyond it granting her wish and her wanting to make sure the wish continued because she didn't want to go back to the old version of herself because she gradually starts to enjoy the perks of her newfound gifts and not the consequences. I think the film was just much more straightforward take on Barbara compared to Rucka.

Her wanting to be an "Apex Predator" and specifically a cat-thing is also receiving some cocked eyebrows, even among reviewers who are onboard with her story before that. I don't think a transformation in a monstrous Cheetah form should ever be something Barbara really wants. Because it's a bizarre thing to desire. It makes more sense in Perez and Rucka's versions where she doesn't know 100% what she's getting into and it bites her in the ass hard.

The movie take seemed to be going with her giving up on her humanity to reach the pinnacle of what she can be and surpass Diana. And it wasn't as monstrous as Sharp's Cheetah so I don't think it's the less than ideal state that Rebirth Barbara ended up as, and Post-Crisis Cheetah eventually enjoyed her Cheetah form.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don't think it was put on the back burner when the scenes of her slowly transforming into the person she ends up as is parallel to everything else, so it didn't really feel abrupt to me. I don't think it was the stone's influence beyond it granting her wish and her wanting to make sure the wish continued because she didn't want to go back to the old version of herself because she gradually starts to enjoy the perks of her newfound gifts and not the consequences. I think the film was just much more straightforward take on Barbara compared to Rucka.

There was really only one scene running parallel to everything else, which was when she beat up the rapist. And for a lot of peolple, the intent of that scene isn't landing because people aren't seeing that as much of a start of darkness for her and are actually on her side. That's really the only scene we have of her going dark before she turns on Diana at the White House in the end.

It's more straightforward, but sometimes that's not always a good thing. Especially when it's fairly basic and cliche, and mainly elevated I think by Wiig's performance than the script.

The movie take seemed to be going with her giving up on her humanity to reach the pinnacle of what she can be and surpass Diana. And it wasn't as monstrous as Sharp's Cheetah so I don't think it's the less than ideal state that Rebirth Barbara ended up as, and Post-Crisis Cheetah eventually enjoyed her Cheetah form.

That seems to have its roots in Johns's New 52 take, and that take sucked. Why would surpassing Diana be an animal form? People are making jokes that she only became a cheetah because she really liked Diana's animal print shoes. That's really not a good sign that the film conveyed her journey well. And yeah, post-Crisis Cheetah eventually enjoyed her form but the writing to get to that point was really inconsistent and came out of nowhere. Urzkartaga and Chuma just up and vanished without an explanation.

It may seem like I'm bashing her, but I still overall liked film Cheetah and her potential. I loved Wiig, so at least she didn't land like a complete wet fart like Leto's Joker and Eisenbergs Lex (we have to grade on a curve with DCEU villains) and I see potential for her return. But the WW vs. Cheetah confrontation should have had a way more epic story than we got, and it should be the A-plot. A hero vs. arch villain rivalry between two women is something that really could have been groundbreaking, and while there is a possibility that WW3 will address it, I don't think they should have hedged their bets on a third film panning out exactly like they planned. Because who knows if the studio will want Cheetah back in WW3 now?

[Immortal Weapon]

Barbara's wish and loss of empathy was the reason for the loss of her friendship with Diana, though?

Diana making a wish and then renouncing it was pivotal to her character arc and how she related to the main conflict of the movie, especially in relation to everyone else when she needed to make them face the truth like she did. I don't think the emotional conflict as presented in the movie would be as strong had she not had a wish that she would eventually need to take back on her own terms. She needed to wish for something.

She didn't have a friendship with Diana. They talked to each other twice and had dinner but nothing else. I would rewrite the entire plot to make this movie good.

[SiegePerilous02]

She didn't have a friendship with Diana. They talked to each other twice and had dinner but nothing else. I would rewrite the entire plot to make this movie good.

Probably why Max shouldn't have been in this movie.

I really liked the early scenes between Diana and Barbara, it needed more space to be fleshed out without Max distracting things.

[Frontier]

There was really only one scene running parallel to everything else, which was when she beat up the rapist. And for a lot of peolple, the intent of that scene isn't landing because people aren't seeing that as much of a start of darkness for her and are actually on her side. That's really the only scene we have of her going dark before she turns on Diana at the White House in the end.

It's more straightforward, but sometimes that's not always a good thing. Especially when it's fairly basic and cliche, and mainly elevated I think by Wiig's performance than the script.

There was also the scene at the gym where she realizes she has super-strength.

I don't think we're supposed to see Barbara as the villain in that scene so much as her loss of empathy which was further emphasized in the scene at the white house. Barbara had every right to defend herself but there was still some excessiveness to the beatdown that, while cathartic in some respect, wasn't necessarily the "right" thing, but I feel like the ambiguity is there so we still emphasize with her to some extent. She wasn't supposed to be a "bad guy" there compared to when she comes in and saves Lord.

That seems to have its roots in Johns's New 52 take, and that take sucked. Why would surpassing Diana be an animal form? People are making jokes that she only became a cheetah because she really liked Diana's animal print shoes. That's really not a good sign that the film conveyed her journey well. And yeah, post-Crisis Cheetah eventually enjoyed her form but the writing to get to that point was really inconsistent and came out of nowhere. Urzkartaga and Chuma just up and vanished without an explanation.

I'm not sure if she personally chose to become a Cheetah, what she got transformed into just happened to be a raw, ferocious, animal form (and it wasn't just the heels, I kind of assumed that animal statue in the smithsonian might've been foreshadowing it too). People are obviously going to bring in their own POV to it but it landed for me.

It may seem like I'm bashing her, but I still overall liked film Cheetah and her potential. I loved Wiig, so at least she didn't land like a complete wet fart like Leto's Joker and Eisenbergs Lex (we have to grade on a curve with DCEU villains) and I see potential for her return. But the WW vs. Cheetah confrontation should have had a way more epic story than we got, and it should be the A-plot. A hero vs. arch villain rivalry between two women is something that really could have been groundbreaking, and while there is a possibility that WW3 will address it, I don't think they should have hedged their bets on a third film panning out exactly like they planned. Because who knows if the studio will want Cheetah back in WW3 now?

I feel like it got enough build up for what it was, the actual big Superhero fight of the film between two developing rivals, while the climax with Lord got to be more unconventional.

I think Patty fully intends to bring Barbara back at the very least. I'm not sure I see the studio mandating her not appearing.

She didn't have a friendship with Diana. They talked to each other twice and had dinner but nothing else. I would rewrite the entire plot to make this movie good.

I thought that was enough for the beginning of a friendship in my opinion, because it was clear they liked each other and like the qualities they saw in each other.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think Patty fully intends to bring Barbara back at the very least. I'm not sure I see the studio mandating her not appearing.

The overall lukewarm reception of the film and WB's history of being unpredictable doesn't give me confidence they will leave her alone completely.

Worst case scenario, they want to remove any reminders of this film period and just start fresh for WW3. Which may mean no Cheetah, and an opportunity to adapt that character properly wasted. I hope I'm wrong on that, but I never trust WB to not take the wrong lessons.

[Immortal Weapon]

Probably why Max shouldn't have been in this movie.

I really liked the early scenes between Diana and Barbara, it needed more space to be fleshed out without Max distracting things.

I would have dumped Steve personally and have the Diana and Barbara friendship be the emotional weight of the movie. When it comes to Max I would have dumped the wish stone nonsense. He could have still achieved his goals using his comic powers.

I thought that was enough for the beginning of a friendship in my opinion, because it was clear they liked each other and like the qualities they saw in each other.

As soon as Steve enters the plot Diana forgets about her. Thereafter the only time Diana interacts with her is when she needs favors.

[SiegePerilous02]

I would have dumped Steve personally and have the Diana and Barbara friendship be the emotional weight of the movie. When it comes to Max I would have dumped the wish stone nonsense. He could have still achieved his goals using his comic powers

I would have kept the Steve stuff, minus the you-know-what. He is at least at a WW character, unlike that interloper Max

But I also wouldn't have been bothered by his absence, since I was fully satisfied with his arc and death in the first film. Maybe the movie would have been better without the men lol

[brettc1]

I would have kept the Steve stuff, minus the you-know-what. He is at least at a WW character, unlike that interloper Max

But I also wouldn't have been bothered by his absence, since I was fully satisfied with his arc and death in the first film. Maybe the movie would have been better without the men lol

No way. Pedro Pascal rules!

I am surprised at the lack of appreciation for his role in the movie, especially the relationship with his son.

[Alpha]

No way. Pedro Pascal rules!

I am surprised at the lack of appreciation for his role in the movie, especially the relationship with his son.

I feel like the biggest writing issues were in the first act of the film, but the one exception is the kid. His dialogue was awful. He didn't even sound like a kid. And the actor unfortunately was bad too

[Titan Theo]

a) Wonder Woman needs a better fight choreographer (please turn to DC animaiton)
b) Gal Gadot needs more comprehensive acting lessons, sorry to say. I believe she was better actress in 1984 but script was terrible, rush, plot hole lines, forced, cheesy scenes.
c) The movie was trying to show Diana's love, truth etc. motto, but failed miserably because again of scripting, and over the top cliche lines.

First movie was an A-, this one is a D. Sorry, PJ.

[Alpha]

a) Wonder Woman needs a better fight choreographer (please turn to DC animaiton)
b) Gal Gadot needs more comprehensive acting lessons, sorry to say. I believe she was better actress in 1984 but script was terrible, rush, plot hole lines, forced, cheesy scenes.
c) The movie was trying to show Diana's love, truth etc. motto, but failed miserably because again of scripting, and over the top cliche lines.

First movie was an A-, this one is a D. Sorry, PJ.

People are getting off topic. Read the title of the thread. But I disagree with the recommendation of dc animation (or even with the need dor a new choreographer) and absolutely disagree on Gal Gadot acting. She was great in this film.

[Stanlos]

I was surprised to see the Apex predator line labeled as "cringe" by so many YouTube critics. While I feel the film does "waste" Max Lord and Cheetah I do think Wiig's performance was great from a dramatic perspective. I felt the pain in her reading of that line coming out of the battle with Diana and the exchange they had about Diana not being what Barbara thought and Barbara not fully understanding.

[Frontier]

The overall lukewarm reception of the film and WB's history of being unpredictable doesn't give me confidence they will leave her alone completely.

Worst case scenario, they want to remove any reminders of this film period and just start fresh for WW3. Which may mean no Cheetah, and an opportunity to adapt that character properly wasted. I hope I'm wrong on that, but I never trust WB to not take the wrong lessons.

I think it'll ultimately come down to Patty Jenkins and how she'll want to approach Barbara in the third film. I don't see execs explicitly barring her from using a character.

I would have dumped Steve personally and have the Diana and Barbara friendship be the emotional weight of the movie. When it comes to Max I would have dumped the wish stone nonsense. He could have still achieved his goals using his comic powers.

I just don't feel the plot needed to be changed to that extent.

I think Max's persona in the film made more sense to be a wish-granter instead of a telepath. It wouldn't have worked to have him just brainwashing people.

As soon as Steve enters the plot Diana forgets about her. Thereafter the only time Diana interacts with her is when she needs favors.

She doesn't forget about her. I don't think she needed to rush to see Barbara just after getting Steve back and Diana trusted Barbara enough to help.

[Gaelforce]

Let's get back on track - there's a thread dedicated to the discussion of the movie (several, in fact), so let's stick to 'what surprised you' as opposed to 'what you didn't like/would have changed.'