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  1. #46
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Getting everyone to rescind their wishes because a disbodied voice who made a pretty speech was eye rolling. Everything about that final exchange was hokey in a bad way.
    Max was 'connected' to everyone directly, so I saw this scene differently. Diana didn't just make a pretty speech, she forced everyone, via the lasso on Max, to *see* the truth of it all.

  2. #47
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    That some people still care about the DCEU "continuity".
    This is what got me the most. I was shocked to see so many people ask how this can be connected to Batman v Superman or Justice League.

    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Oh yeah this panel made rounds a while back. It's really popular
    Attachment 104156
    By popular I mean really popular. People like it. Calling her badass, queen, that's why Wondy is my favorite and all that. I only see 1-2-3 people trying to correct it, like no, this is not what it's supposed to be.

    The Gail Simone panel where Diana said we don't fight before extending a hand made rounds too, but of course, socmed is an echo chamber, people reblog/tweet what they agree
    Gross.

  3. #48
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Getting everyone to rescind their wishes because a disbodied voice who made a pretty speech was eye rolling. Everything about that final exchange was hokey in a bad way.
    It's a pretty Wonder Woman way though to appeal to the individual and the masses through their humanity.

    It's not that different from how she's defeated Ares in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    He probably wouldn't be the villain if that didn't happen. But seeing as how the story in question was pretty lousy, and the movie is getting a lukewarm reception at best, it's not like it has lead to anything great. Pascal is well liked in the role, but the character's plot is pretty silly/dumb and takes up the most screen time. Meanwhile, the actual WW villain who should have gotten focus and would have provided something actually different (two female leads pitted against each other in a complicated rivalry) was demoted to secondary antagonist in favor of doing some anti-Trump stuff. Because Trump hasn't ruined enough already.
    I think there was plenty to establish the WW/Cheetah rivalry and set them against each other even if Cheetah wasn't the main villain, setting the stage for it to continue in the third movie.

    I'm just happy this movie got Max Lord better than most modern comics do. And Max is far more human and caring (in his own way) compared to Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I guess I'm surprised by how many people insist on the sword and shield, but I shouldn't be.
    Well, when DC shoves it into the comics and practically every media, it kind of stands out when we finally see Diana just not using it.
    I'm not surprised at the lasso complaints, the glowing itself isn't the problem, it was some of the wonky movement and just how bright/when it glowed.
    I actually really liked all the cool lasso feats. I didn't think it glowed that bright, at least to a bothersome extent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Gross.
    It doesn't even make sense when you look at all the villains she actually does have if writers paid half enough attention to her Rogues Gallery.

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think there was plenty to establish the WW/Cheetah rivalry and set them against each other even if Cheetah wasn't the main villain, setting the stage for it to continue in the third movie.

    I'm just happy this movie got Max Lord better than most modern comics do. And Max is far more human and caring (in his own way) compared to Trump.
    I'm not totally giving up on Cheetah just yet because she does seem poised to come back and I at least really liked Wiig in the role. But this movie could have done one villain or the other, but didn't really need both and ran into the Spider-Man 3 problem. She got the short end of the stick ("Venom'd") despite being the actual arch nemesis, and it was done in favor of taking shots at Trump (even if that isn't the only inspiration for Max). The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    This is what got me the most. I was shocked to see so many people ask how this can be connected to Batman v Superman or Justice League.
    I am too. Also shocked to see a lot of supporters of those films ask why more wasn't done to explain what Diana did during WW2 and why she didn't do more.
    As if we haven't been stuck with that dumbass decision since BvS and Jenkins has had to awkwardly work around it.

  5. #50
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    It doesn't even make sense when you look at all the villains she actually does have if writers paid half enough attention to her Rogues Gallery.
    Exactly. That comment wreaks of unfamiliarity with the Wonder Woman series, which is pretty jarring seeing as Geoff Johns seems to know the importance of villains in a superhero comic. I have a feeling a lot of this stems from Wonder Woman's rogues gallery being 90% women, and that misogyny just doesn't sit well with me.

  6. #51
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm not totally giving up on Cheetah just yet because she does seem poised to come back and I at least really liked Wiig in the role. But this movie could have done one villain or the other, but didn't really need both and ran into the Spider-Man 3 problem. She got the short end of the stick ("Venom'd") despite being the actual arch nemesis, and it was done in favor of taking shots at Trump (even if that isn't the only inspiration for Max). The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get.
    I feel like both Max and Barbara carried the main theme of the movie together to a certain extent. You had Max as the driving force of the problem while Barbara was the physical antagonist who refused to the let the wishes be undone and representing the general public to a certain extent, but unlike them she never renounced her wish.

    I feel like they gave Barbara/Cheetah plenty to build her up to being Diana's main rival in the film and to have that carry over into another movie without needing her to be the main villain, but she was the one Wonder Woman had the big fight with at the end. Diana managed to redeem Max but she may have been too late to save Barbara.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Exactly. That comment wreaks of unfamiliarity with the Wonder Woman series, which is pretty jarring seeing as Geoff Johns seems to know the importance of villains in a superhero comic. I have a feeling a lot of this stems from Wonder Woman's rogues gallery being 90% women, and that misogyny just doesn't sit well with me.
    It reeks to me of taking the more "popular" belief of Wonder Woman as this Xena-type warrior woman as basis for her character instead of how she's supposed to be.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    The lack of action could have been excused if there were interesting and engaging scenes to make up for it and this film doesn't do that. There's a lot of boring bits in the film that drag.
    Agree to disagree.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    General ones I don't get? Complaints about the lasso glowing.

    I would have been more disappointed if it didn't, honestly.
    Thank you! Not to mention that WW84 was the THIRD film in which the lasso glowed. Why are these people acting like BvS and WW did not already show the lasso glowing? Why is this complain coming up now?
    Also, the lasso was ALWAYS supposed to emit light. Have these people never read Marston's classic WW tales? The lasso was always drawn with "light effects" around it. All the way from Marston to today (and Perez did the most fabulous ---in my opinion---version of the glow...he drew it as if it were on fire, like the Hestian fires from which the lasso was created).
    Are people really not aware that the Lynda Carter show gave her a crappy string covered in golden glitter because of their limited TV budget?

    And yes, I would also have been very disappointed if the movie lasso did not glow.

  9. #54
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm not totally giving up on Cheetah just yet because she does seem poised to come back and I at least really liked Wiig in the role. But this movie could have done one villain or the other, but didn't really need both and ran into the Spider-Man 3 problem. She got the short end of the stick ("Venom'd") despite being the actual arch nemesis, and it was done in favor of taking shots at Trump (even if that isn't the only inspiration for Max). The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get.
    Even if Cheetah comes back she'll most likely be playing second fiddle to Circe. Or Circe will get shortchanged to give Cheetah more of presence. Or Diana will get shortchanged in favor of the villains. Not sure which option I hate more.

  10. #55
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    Even if Cheetah comes back she'll most likely be playing second fiddle to Circe. Or Circe will get shortchanged to give Cheetah more of presence. Or Diana will get shortchanged in favor of the villains. Not sure which option I hate more.
    Well, I like to think since that hasn't happened in the movies yet it wouldn't happen in the third film.

    I guess if we do get Cheetah and Circe in a film together it would be a mutual partnership like she had with Lord to some extent, and anything else comes down to direction and screentime.

  11. #56
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I'm not totally giving up on Cheetah just yet because she does seem poised to come back and I at least really liked Wiig in the role. But this movie could have done one villain or the other, but didn't really need both and ran into the Spider-Man 3 problem. She got the short end of the stick ("Venom'd") despite being the actual arch nemesis, and it was done in favor of taking shots at Trump (even if that isn't the only inspiration for Max). The more I think about it, the more annoyed I get.
    Cheetah could have worked as the main villain if the plot wasn't grandiose in scope. In a personal stakes film Cheetah should definitely be the main villain. Personally, I feel this would have been a better movie if Steve got dropped altogether and focused on Diana's friendship with Barbara. Barbara could have been the person to get Diana to reconnect with people after losing her wartime friends and Steve.

  12. #57
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Cheetah could have worked as the main villain if the plot wasn't grandiose in scope. In a personal stakes film Cheetah should definitely be the main villain. Personally, I feel this would have been a better movie if Steve got dropped altogether and focused on Diana's friendship with Barbara. Barbara could have been the person to get Diana to reconnect with people after losing her wartime friends and Steve.
    But Diana letting Steve go was kind of the main emotional thrust/conflict of the movie. That was her personal stake in the story.

  13. #58
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, I like to think since that hasn't happened in the movies yet it wouldn't happen in the third film.
    I actually think it did happen in the second movie. This movie could've easily been a Max Lord solo without Wonder Woman and Cheetah at all.

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    Even if Cheetah comes back she'll most likely be playing second fiddle to Circe. Or Circe will get shortchanged to give Cheetah more of presence. Or Diana will get shortchanged in favor of the villains. Not sure which option I hate more.
    Yeah, there are a lot of potential ways this could go south and one of these ladies gets short changed. or all three

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Cheetah could have worked as the main villain if the plot wasn't grandiose in scope. In a personal stakes film Cheetah should definitely be the main villain. Personally, I feel this would have been a better movie if Steve got dropped altogether and focused on Diana's friendship with Barbara. Barbara could have been the person to get Diana to reconnect with people after losing her wartime friends and Steve.
    I definitely would have preferred just a Diana and Barbara movie set in the modern day. Definitely without Max and maybe even lacking Steve.

    I glanced at some parts of the RLM review. I'm not surprised they didn't like it and I doubt I will agree with everything they say (I tend to like BoTW and Re:view of all their videos instead of reviews of current stuff), but they had a point that Cheetah seems a bit disconnected from the rest of it and could have been its own movie.

  15. #60
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    I am most surprised at the utterly RIDICULOUS "Wonder Woman is a rapist!" narrative that so many internet denizens are trying to push. It stinks of an insufferable amalgamation of the worst stereotypes about comic book nerds and so-called SJWs. Just sad.

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