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  1. #61
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    I actually think it did happen in the second movie. This movie could've easily been a Max Lord solo without Wonder Woman and Cheetah at all.
    I think it would've been a very different movie if it was just a Max Lord film...but I guess when you dive into your villains as much as you do your hero, it feels like there's more than one star of the film.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I glanced at some parts of the RLM review. I'm not surprised they didn't like it and I doubt I will agree with everything they say (I tend to like BoTW and Re:view of all their videos instead of reviews of current stuff), but they had a point that Cheetah seems a bit disconnected from the rest of it and could have been its own movie.
    Cheetah's whole character arc was predicated on the wishes though, and what some people were willing to sacrifice to obtain them instead of giving them up like Diana did.

  2. #62
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But Diana letting Steve go was kind of the main emotional thrust/conflict of the movie. That was her personal stake in the story.
    I felt the story didn't need Steve for his presence to be felt. The establishing shot of Diana's apartment conveyed that well. It would have interesting to see Diana try to move on with her life after presumably grieving for 70 years.

  3. #63
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Cheetah's whole character arc was predicated on the wishes though, and what some people were willing to sacrifice to obtain them instead of giving them up like Diana did.
    Yes, but I feel like she could have had more of a presence especially in the middle of the movie, where she kind of fades into the background, to really get the full impact of the friendship souring when she comes back as a player in the end. As it is, I think most of the stuff about this Cheetah that works is down to Wiig (she's great), not really the script. And since the stone was originally in her office and the plot kick started with both her and Diana making wishes, the focus could have remained on her instead of inserting Max into it.

    I also would have preferred not setting it in the 80s with a wish plot altogether, and skewing closer to Rucka's run and the dynamic between Diana and Barbara there.

  4. #64
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I felt the story didn't need Steve for his presence to be felt. The establishing shot of Diana's apartment conveyed that well. It would have interesting to see Diana try to move on with her life after presumably grieving for 70 years.
    But then we would've needed to change Diana's wish and how that effected the plot. I think her heroics and trying to befriend Barbara showed her attempt to move on from her losses in some way.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yes, but I feel like she could have had more of a presence especially in the middle of the movie, where she kind of fades into the background, to really get the full impact of the friendship souring when she comes back as a player in the end. As it is, I think most of the stuff about this Cheetah that works is down to Wiig (she's great), not really the script. And since the stone was originally in her office and the plot kick started with both her and Diana making wishes, the focus could have remained on her instead of inserting Max into it.
    I feel like the middle of the movie was showing more of the transition from Barbara Minerva to Cheetah as a slow-burn while Diana and Steve are dealing with Lord.

    Their friendship may not have been as deeply established compared to Rebirth but I feel the effect was still there.

    Thematically I think it was good that the movie had two villains, one who Diana couldn't save (Cheetah) for a traditional Superhero fight and one she was able to redeem (Lord) for something more character specific to Wonder Woman.
    I also would have preferred not setting it in the 80s with a wish plot altogether, and skewing closer to Rucka's run and the dynamic between Diana and Barbara there.
    Honestly I preferred parts of the movie take compared to how Rucka handled it.

    The build up to her becoming Cheetah and the envy that drove her to want powers felt better built up and not as abrupt, and her being Cheetah wasn't a "woe is me" moment. She had more agency with Lord than she did with Cale and Godwatch.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It's a run that is essentially glorified filler, and isn't very well regarded. How is being a major villain in such a run something to be excited about?

    He probably wouldn't be the villain if that didn't happen. But seeing as how the story in question was pretty lousy, and the movie is getting a lukewarm reception at best, it's not like it has lead to anything great. Pascal is well liked in the role, but the character's plot is pretty silly/dumb and takes up the most screen time. Meanwhile, the actual WW villain who should have gotten focus and would have provided something actually different (two female leads pitted against each other in a complicated rivalry) was demoted to secondary antagonist in favor of doing some anti-Trump stuff. Because Trump hasn't ruined enough already.
    The "anti-Trump" stuff is really overstated. Max's comic counterpart is based on Trump but he's a lot more sympathetic compared to his real life inspiration. The movie is more anti-greed.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FutureWonder View Post
    I am most surprised at the utterly RIDICULOUS "Wonder Woman is a rapist!" narrative that so many internet denizens are trying to push. It stinks of an insufferable amalgamation of the worst stereotypes about comic book nerds and so-called SJWs. Just sad.
    Feminists have critiqued that scene as being deeply problematic.

    https://www.themarysue.com/patty-jen...ce=mostpopular

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But then we would've needed to change Diana's wish and how that effected the plot. I think her heroics and trying to befriend Barbara showed her attempt to move on from her losses in some way.

    I feel like the middle of the movie was showing more of the transition from Barbara Minerva to Cheetah as a slow-burn while Diana and Steve are dealing with Lord.

    Their friendship may not have been as deeply established compared to Rebirth but I feel the effect was still there.

    Thematically I think it was good that the movie had two villains, one who Diana couldn't save (Cheetah) for a traditional Superhero fight and one she was able to redeem (Lord) for something more character specific to Wonder Woman.

    Honestly I preferred parts of the movie take compared to how Rucka handled it.

    The build up to her becoming Cheetah and the envy that drove her to want powers felt better built up and not as abrupt, and her being Cheetah wasn't a "woe is me" moment. She had more agency with Lord than she did with Cale and Godwatch.
    Why are they even bothering writing a Wonder Woman film to begin with when Rucka already did it for them? Seriously, any of his stories would have been preferable. Could you imagine they did Sacrifice and actually had Cavill's Superman? Stoned, Godwatch? That would have served Cheetah and Maxwell Lord better.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But then we would've needed to change Diana's wish and how that effected the plot. I think her heroics and trying to befriend Barbara showed her attempt to move on from her losses in some way.

    I feel like the middle of the movie was showing more of the transition from Barbara Minerva to Cheetah as a slow-burn while Diana and Steve are dealing with Lord.

    Their friendship may not have been as deeply established compared to Rebirth but I feel the effect was still there.

    Thematically I think it was good that the movie had two villains, one who Diana couldn't save (Cheetah) for a traditional Superhero fight and one she was able to redeem (Lord) for something more character specific to Wonder Woman.

    Honestly I preferred parts of the movie take compared to how Rucka handled it.

    The build up to her becoming Cheetah and the envy that drove her to want powers felt better built up and not as abrupt, and her being Cheetah wasn't a "woe is me" moment. She had more agency with Lord than she did with Cale and Godwatch.
    I agree. While I liked Rucka's Barbara Ann, I actually don't think his version could work in this film. I can't imagine a more experienced and worldly WW84 Diana wanting to be friends with Rucka's more egomaniac and power-hungry Barbara. 84 Diana would see Barbara as the untrustworthy potential villain she is - similar to Max Lord in the film - and I can't imagine a budding friendship between the two.

    I only wish the movie had explored Barbara's obvious silent rage more. We see it with her harasser and we see it later both times she interacts with Wonder Woman.

  9. #69
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    And now people on Twitter have found a pic of WW from BvS wearing the severed heads of her enemies as trophies and are demanding Patty put that into WW3. Because clearly Zack Snyder’s version of WW is what they should be drawing on more. Lmao wtf?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    And now people on Twitter have found a pic of WW from BvS wearing the severed heads of her enemies as trophies and are demanding Patty put that into WW3. Because clearly Zack Snyder’s version of WW is what they should be drawing on more. Lmao wtf?
    Wearing the severed heads of.....say, what?

  11. #71
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Feminists have critiqued that scene as being deeply problematic.

    https://www.themarysue.com/patty-jen...ce=mostpopular
    And they are wrong

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Wearing the severed heads of.....say, what?

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    And they are wrong

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    And now people on Twitter have found a pic of WW from BvS wearing the severed heads of her enemies as trophies and are demanding Patty put that into WW3. Because clearly Zack Snyder’s version of WW is what they should be drawing on more. Lmao wtf?
    What does that have to do with this topic?

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What does that have to do with this topic?
    Those same people are saying that Patty “got WW wrong” in WW1984 (and also claiming that everything good about the first movie came from Zack), so Patty needs to make WW more violent in WW3.

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