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  1. #121
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    For me, the most surprising thing is seeing people try to scapegoat Snyder and his fans for this film's reception.
    When some of them are saying that going away from Snyder's vision resulted in a bad movie, it's not surprising there is pushback against them. The fans at least, since Snyder is not pushing for that narrative and seems supportive of Jenkins from what I've seen.

    For the record, I think this movie not landing in several aspects is down to Jenkins and deserves criticism. But there is definitely an extreme segment of the fandom that are pouncing on this and trying to hold it up as a sign that Snyder should be back in charge. But they are probably a vocal minority.

  2. #122
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    When some of them are saying that going away from Snyder's vision resulted in a bad movie, it's not surprising there is pushback against them. The fans at least, since Snyder is not pushing for that narrative and seems supportive of Jenkins from what I've seen.

    For the record, I think this movie not landing in several aspects is down to Jenkins and deserves criticism. But there is definitely an extreme segment of the fandom that are pouncing on this and trying to hold it up as a sign that Snyder should be back in charge. But they are probably a vocal minority.
    You ready for the golden idol of Zack they're going to erect when his Justice League drops?

  3. #123
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    We have people saying that her flying is stealing Superman's gimmick even when he wasn't the first character ever to fly. Considering Spider-Man is the most well known superhero who gets around by swinging from a great height, the comparison isn't necessarily far off.
    It's just them being petty and trying to say she's stealing from other characters instead of just acknowledging that's what ya do in said situations. Indiana Jones swings from his whip. Luke did that stuff too. Tarzan popularized it in American cinema. If there's a gap between two ledges in film, the character either jumps or swings. But when it's Diana, hey Spidey she's breaking your copyright.

    Same with Superman, frankly. It's normal to have a character experience the joy and wonder of their powers when they first discover them, but Diana of course needs to be ripping someone off instead of... enjoying the feeling of flying for the first time.

  4. #124
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    You ready for the golden idol of Zack they're going to erect when his Justice League drops?
    Oh yes, this event will certainly be something lol.

  5. #125
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Oh yes, this event will certainly be something lol.
    I can't wait for the "I just watched it and it's brilliant" post exactly twenty minutes after it is released.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    We have people saying that her flying is stealing Superman's gimmick even when he wasn't the first character ever to fly. Considering Spider-Man is the most well known superhero who gets around by swinging from a great height, the comparison isn't necessarily far off.
    I understand what you're saying, but I thought Diana's use of the lasso for traversal was so much more imaginative. Buildings, ledges, missiles, airplanes, wind, lightning. Personally, I would love to see the lasso used for those traversal capabilities in comics and video games. I thought it opened a world of possibilities. The same way Superman isn't the only character to fly; Spider-Man isn't the only one to swing - Lara Croft, Nathan Drake, Indiana Jones, are a few that come to mind.

  7. #127
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    WW is not Xena, but what what many, many fans, and new fans, especially for the "Best Melee Fighter" in the DC universe according to Batman is for her to kick arse like her and even better!

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    When some of them are saying that going away from Snyder's vision resulted in a bad movie, it's not surprising there is pushback against them. The fans at least, since Snyder is not pushing for that narrative and seems supportive of Jenkins from what I've seen.

    For the record, I think this movie not landing in several aspects is down to Jenkins and deserves criticism. But there is definitely an extreme segment of the fandom that are pouncing on this and trying to hold it up as a sign that Snyder should be back in charge. But they are probably a vocal minority.
    People aren't just pushing back against those fans rightly. They're outright claiming that they're the ones behind the bad reviews or that Snyder's warrior woman has infected how people think Wonder Woman should be like when all of those are coming from people who dislike Snyder's work. Hell, there are some reviews claiming this movie is too cynical (not that I agree but that should tell you the mindset of this film's critics).

    Frankly, it just comes across like another reason to bitch about Snyder or his fans because there just isn't enough of that apparently.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 01-15-2021 at 10:13 PM.

  9. #129
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    People aren't just pushing back against those fans rightly. They're outright claiming that they're the ones behind the bad reviews or that Snyder's warrior woman has infected how people think Wonder Woman should be like when all of those are coming from people who dislike Snyder's work. Hell, there are some reviews claiming this movie is too cynical (not that I agree but that should tell you the mindset of this film's critics).

    Frankly, it just comes across like another reason to bitch about Snyder or his fans because there just isn't enough of that apparently.
    That's bad and pretty delusional, but also not too different than Snyder fans saying MCU/non-Snyder fans are behind the bad reviews of his films.

    Lot's of stupidity going around.

  10. #130
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    Admittedly, I was hoping for the neck snap when killing Max to undo the wishes was on the table. It was the more realistic option than what the movie actually went with.
    It's funny that throughout the movie, it didn't even occur to me that Wonder Woman might snap Maxwell's neck because the Maxwell was portrayed so sympathetically. I actually like the way Maxwell was defeated.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

    "You can't make an omelet without breaking a few necks." - Wonder Woman, probably

  11. #131
    Fantastic Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder39 View Post
    Seriously. If i read one more comment about how "she's a brutal warrior" etc i might barf. The problem with people thinking they know the character because they read Flashpoint or some such garbage.
    Yeah, the fanbase is always going to be divided on how to treat Wonder Woman. If she was actually cutting off people's heads in these movies, people wouldn't like it...
    I think people forget she's suppose to be a roll model for kids in these movies, not your warrior goddess fantasy. It's fine to write her like that in alternate universe stuff but I don't want to see her behave like that in her movies.

  12. #132
    Fantastic Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    The way a lot of people turned on Patty, like she wasn't a huge part of the reason the first Wonder Woman movie turned out as well as it did. She fought for that movie for 10+ years and went through multiple scripts before finding one she knew would work.

  13. #133
    Fantastic Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It was at first glance, but when you re-read the run and take into account Diana's assessment of her mental state in the next chapter of "the Truth," it becomes more clear that isn't a sacrifice on Barbara's part (at least not completely). The sacrifice was just a convenient excuse for the "addict' to slip back into her old pattern.
    Huh, that's actually an interesting way of putting it that I hadn't really though about before.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think the actual event should have been shown, and maybe it would have had he stayed on the book. But I think Barbara is clearly established as a brash glory seeker who deflects blame for her own failings onto others (chiefly Diana and Cale, but also even earlier with Dr. Martins) and isn't a reliable narrator to the point where we don't really need it shown. Her own personality and the dialogue of other characters paints the picture we need.

    Same when she rejects Diana and Circe's help out of spite.
    Yeah, it's more the feeling that Diana didn't show up when she needed her help that set things off. We don't need to know exactly what happened, only that Barbara felt betrayed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I don't know, the film has received criticism for her arc being put on the back burner and her switch seeming abrupt. The stone could be influencing her and exaggerating traits that are already there, but while Wiig's early scenes are great, we also needed more time to get to know her in order to know for sure where she truly ends and the wish effects really begin. I think Rucka's paints a more nuanced picture of what Barbara is like pre-Cheetah than this movie is able to.

    Her wanting to be an "Apex Predator" and specifically a cat-thing is also receiving some cocked eyebrows, even among reviewers who are onboard with her story before that. I don't think a transformation in a monstrous Cheetah form should ever be something Barbara really wants. Because it's a bizarre thing to desire. It makes more sense in Perez and Rucka's versions where she doesn't know 100% what she's getting into and it bites her in the ass hard.
    In Perez's run she knew she was going to turn into a feral cat-beast when the ritual was explained to her. She just didn't know it would leave her crippled when she was human.

    I think in the movie, the point is Barbara can't even see what she's become anymore. I kind of felt like she was trying to fill the hole left by her loss of humanity with even more power. I think at this point she realized she'll never be happy until she's at the top, and even then I doubt that would be enough for her.

    I kinda wish her turning into Cheetah was a bi-product of her first wish and not some vague powerup by Max. It would've made enough sense that loosing her humanity, combined with the powers of a demi-god, would cause her to have a physical transformation. But this character was clearly written with a sequel in mind, Patty herself confirmed she left Cheetah's story open for a reason. She's literally the only character in the story who gets zero closure.

  14. #134
    Fantastic Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    Even if Cheetah comes back she'll most likely be playing second fiddle to Circe. Or Circe will get shortchanged to give Cheetah more of presence. Or Diana will get shortchanged in favor of the villains. Not sure which option I hate more.
    If they go with the War of the Gods storyline, which is the only storyline that really involved both Circe and Cheetah, then it will probably be that Cheetah betrays Circe and helps out Diana.

    I honestly have a hard time seeing Diana fight both Circe and Cheetah so that would make more sense. At least that way no character gets shortchanged, but it all depends on the execution of course.

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