Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 77
  1. #46
    All-New Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10

    Default The "Truth"

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Point of order...Eli was NOT peak human til he got the blood transfusion from Isiah. He has a normal human athlete and faked SSS by using MGH.
    Which thankfully a Disney+ series can totally ignore. They can just say that he had a blood transfusion from his grandfather and that's it.

    Somewhat unrelated, but I remember that story from a Wall Street Journal op-ed back in December about China.

    "There are no ethical boundaries to Beijing's pursuit of power."
    -John Ratcliffe, the director of national intelligence

    U.S. intelligence shows that China has conducted "human testing" on members of the People's Liberation Army in hope of developing soldiers with "biologically enhanced capabilities," the top U.S. intelligence official said...

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,857

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post

    And just looking at it from a marketing and merchandise perspective, things like action figures of black characters (and female for that matter) have historically never been top sellers, so why take a risk when you already have something that looks cool and covers everything up.
    Evidence of that please?

    Because the REALITY (as someone who does buy figures) is a lack of ACCESS to those black figures.

    For some ODD reason they don't get stocked everywhere like their other counterparts.

    Because this was and is an issue with the WWE black figures as well. Along with SOME of the black Barbie dolls (mainly the male ones).

    Not every store will STOCK something. Some will leave it in the back and others will "accidently" ship it to another store (after employees get one).

    Power Ranger Zack with Dragon Zord shield-nobody had him in stock. Why? Because every figure went to ONE Wal-Greens.


    Some NEVER survive pre-orders-the OTHER Patriot-RayShuan Lucas for Marvel Rising. He never made it to a store because pre-orders took everything.

    Miles Morales Spiderverse movie figure and Ethan from Power Rangers Dino Thunder-that did not last 3 minutes on Target's website before selling out as pre-orders.


    Eli has an action figure-I NEVER saw him in a store. Same with the YA team set.


    Others hit shelves MONTHS or YEARS later. Look at you Young Justice Deluxe Aqualad. Even Shuri is popping up after being MIA in stores.

  3. #48
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,593

    Default

    Have Josiah X and Eli been in the same comic?

  4. #49
    All-New Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10

    Default The Bald Truth

    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Evidence of that please?
    It's purely anecdotal from my own personal life experience.

    Granted, I haven't been in the market for action figures since the late 70s and early 80s. But going from hearsay from others in the current market, about the characters that are the traditional "peg warmers," then things haven't changed much.

    Ergo, you don't see that many because they don't make that many. And they don't make that many because they don't sell that many.

    Also, going by the marketing of Black Panther, you didn't see much of Chadwick Boseman's face. No, you mostly saw the Black Panther mask. Granted, that was the costume that the character wore, but my point still stands. It's easier to market and sell black action figures to a general audience if they have a mask on that covers their entire face.

    Now, if you feel that the demand for action figures for black and female characters are on par with (or greater than) their white counterparts, then I'm not going to debate you on it because I honestly don't care.

    Also, I'm doubtful that kind of information is readily available to the public anyway.

    So I'll amend my statement and say that "this is purely anecdotal, but things like action figures of black characters (and female for that matter) have historically never been top sellers."

    Is that better?

    Anyway, no, my larger point from that post was that I don't feel that Elijah Richardson would need to shave his head to portray a live-action Eli Bradley, because 20-something kids today aren't shaving their heads bald like we did when I was in my 20s. They don't want to "be like Mike." So ultimately it would be a hairstyle that's out of style for someone young in the 2020s, and therefore not something a contemporary character would wear.

    That was my point. Action figures was not a largely important remark, to me, at least. It was a throw-away comment. And not something that I thought anyone would take issue with.

    (Who knew I would be questioned on bald heads and action figures. Ha!)

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Have Josiah X and Eli been in the same comic?
    I would say no.

    I'm not sure if those two names have ever even been mentioned in the same comic, but don't quote me on that.
    Last edited by The Truth; 01-17-2021 at 09:46 PM. Reason: ...to add a comment

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,983

    Default

    I don't believe Josiah X has ever stepped outside of issues of the Crew. If I'm wrong, someone please let me know

  6. #51
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    All Along The Watchtower
    Posts
    12,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    I don't believe Josiah X has ever stepped outside of issues of the Crew. If I'm wrong, someone please let me know
    I don't think he has either.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    U.K
    Posts
    670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I don't think he has either.
    I thought he had at least a few panels cameo in YOUNG AVENGERS... (other then that Josiah hasn't appeared though which is a huge waste, IMHO)

  8. #53
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    1,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    It's purely anecdotal from my own personal life experience.

    Granted, I haven't been in the market for action figures since the late 70s and early 80s. But going from hearsay from others in the current market, about the characters that are the traditional "peg warmers," then things haven't changed much.

    Ergo, you don't see that many because they don't make that many. And they don't make that many because they don't sell that many.

    Also, going by the marketing of Black Panther, you didn't see much of Chadwick Boseman's face. No, you mostly saw the Black Panther mask. Granted, that was the costume that the character wore, but my point still stands. It's easier to market and sell black action figures to a general audience if they have a mask on that covers their entire face.

    Now, if you feel that the demand for action figures for black and female characters are on par with (or greater than) their white counterparts, then I'm not going to debate you on it because I honestly don't care.

    Also, I'm doubtful that kind of information is readily available to the public anyway.

    So I'll amend my statement and say that "this is purely anecdotal, but things like action figures of black characters (and female for that matter) have historically never been top sellers."

    Is that better?

    Anyway, no, my larger point from that post was that I don't feel that Elijah Richardson would need to shave his head to portray a live-action Eli Bradley, because 20-something kids today aren't shaving their heads bald like we did when I was in my 20s. They don't want to "be like Mike." So ultimately it would be a hairstyle that's out of style for someone young in the 2020s, and therefore not something a contemporary character would wear.

    That was my point. Action figures was not a largely important remark, to me, at least. It was a throw-away comment. And not something that I thought anyone would take issue with.

    (Who knew I would be questioned on bald heads and action figures. Ha!)

    EDIT:

    I would say no.

    I'm not sure if those two names have ever even been mentioned in the same comic, but don't quote me on that.
    I believe that Eli has mentioned Josiah once or twice. Would be nice though to see them together.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    3,647

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Hunter View Post
    I thought he had at least a few panels cameo in YOUNG AVENGERS... (other then that Josiah hasn't appeared though which is a huge waste, IMHO)
    He definitely did not. It was actually a plot point in Young Avengers that Iron Lad wanted to recruit Josiah, but ended up meeting Eli instead because Josiah wasn't around at the time. So he was mentioned, but we never saw him.

  10. #55
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    All Along The Watchtower
    Posts
    12,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by James Hunter View Post
    I thought he had at least a few panels cameo in YOUNG AVENGERS... (other then that Josiah hasn't appeared though which is a huge waste, IMHO)
    Yeah, I think that was about it.

  11. #56
    All-New Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10

    Default The Truth, in a way...

    Quote Originally Posted by shooshoomanjoe View Post
    Have Josiah X and Eli been in the same comic?
    Okay, when I said: "I'm not sure if those two names have ever even been mentioned in the same comic, but don't quote me on that." I wasn't totally wrong.

    Technically, the name Josiah X wasn't mentioned, just a reference to "He was looking for my uncle, Josiah."



    So "technically" I wasn't wrong.

    But yeah, Josiah X seemed to die with Christopher Priest and the CREW.

    A quick look at digitalpreist.com...

    Comics have never successfully penetrated the African American market, so the numbers don't encourage the major companies to pursue what is, statistically, a dead end. I see that as more economics than racism.
    To Boldly Not Go

    The Crew existed not for the direct shops but for the barber shops. For the bodegas. A Spanish edition published concurrently. Hip-Hop music in-packed with trades.

    None of this was ever explored.
    CREW
    The Industry's Puzzling Refusal To Engage Minority Markets

    I was absolutely furious when they cancelled it.

    This was a really good book. Joe Bennett and Danny Miki (with Avalon Studios on color) did amazing work. Bennett brought the White Tiger (formerly The Black Panther) to life. Kasper Cole, plagued by incredibly poor artist casting on Black Panther, zoomed to life in The Crew, with Joe Bennett showing us what we’d been missing in the pedestrian, lackluster Panther art. In his new identity as The White Tiger, Cole simply bloomed under Bennett’s direction, as did Danny Vincent (Junta), also a Panther transplant. I gave James “Rhodey” Rhodes a complex edge which I was eager to explore, and we introduced Marvel’s first black Muslim super-hero in “Josiah X,” aka Justice. At Tom’s suggestion, we took our time and rolled out each character individually with four showcase issues, collapsing the storylines into one with issue #4 as the boys discover one another. It was, for me, a rich experience in character development, and both Bennett and Miki—both of whom were jazzed to be on then book—amazed me every issue. So, of course, Marvel cancelled it.

    My biggest disappointment with The Crew was with Marvel’s marketing department. I never understood any of those people. I don’t know whose cousin they were or from under which rock the suits found these guys and brought them in, but, at least back in my day, these were some of the most inept, unimaginative, stone-headed people I’d ever seen. It seemed to me that Marvel Creative would come up with these great ideas, and then the marketing department would blow it. All along the development process, we, in fact, knew they would blow it. These guys worked in advertising or for, I don’t know, Wall Street Week or whatever, but they would drop the ball and drop it hard every single time. There was a contentious spirit between creative and marketing at both DC and Marvel, with, my take on it, the marketing guys looking at the creative guys like children, and the creative guys typically upset that long days of hard work ended up for nothing because marketing would not get off its duff and actually go sell comic books.

    It was as if they did not understand why they were there. That’s how bad these people were at their jobs. But Paul Levitz and Mike Hobson kept these men and women at their desks even as they watched the numbers dwindle. I cannot say with any authority what went wrong or right with Milestone because both Dwayne McDuffie and Dick Giordano kept me out of that loop—which was a really dumb thing to do considering I was DC’s liaison to Milestone Media—but my instinct tells me the contentious atmosphere between Milestone and DC’s incredibly inept, incompetent and lame marketing department likely put the experiment on a path. The atmosphere was so poisoned, the marketing guys disliked the Milestone guys so much, it seemed to me that marketing would do the bare minimum necessary to promote Milestone. To my knowledge there was little or no effort made to expand the market beyond traditional comic shops—which aren’t terribly popular with the brothers—and get into distribution chains for ethnic community centers like barber and beauty shops, record store chains and boutiques. I know, for a fact, exploring new distribution avenues was a prime motivator for DC to invest in Milestone, and Milestone President Derek T. Dingle had initially laid out an array of stratagem for breaking comics into new distribution channels.

    DC Marketing did none of that. They bundled up Milestone and fed it to the normal direct outlets. They put an ad in Diamond’s catalog. And On The Sabbath Day They Rested. A monkey could have done that. The entire point of Milestone wasn’t to lure black kids into comics shops but was to broaden DC’s distribution beyond the narrowing funnel of the direct shops and loosen the stranglehold Diamond had on comics distribution. I have to assume DC Marketing missed that memo somehow or that calamitous things went on behind my back because, from what I could tell, there was no effort—none—made to move Milestone past Diamond and the direct shops.

    White Guys Talking To White Guys About Selling To White Guys:
    Latino U.S. Market: $750 Billion. Black U.S. Market: $892 Billion.
    Marvel and DC Minority-Targeted Publishing Lines: 0.

    With The Crew, my pitch to Marvel was precisely the same. The Crew existed not for the direct shops but for the barber shops. For the bodegas. I suggested a Spanish edition published concurrently. Hip-Hop music in-packed with trades. I had a deal in principle with a major online distributor to pay for the CDs in exchange for including their catalog and content on the CD. Friends like Reginald Hudlin were willing to help get us connected with Vibe and XXL Magazines and explore joint ventures with Johnson Publishing. So far as I know, none of that was done. Marvel marketing lifted not one finger for The Crew, saw no potential in the series. Beyond Tom Brevoort’s office there was only an eye roll. Marvel Comics, run by an Hispanic EIC and a close friend of mine, turned blind eye and deaf ear to a rich opportunity. Latino and African American markets are worth hundreds of billions of dollars in the U.S. So far as I know, both majors have stupidly and arrogantly dismissed those markets, along with the multi-billion dollar Christian/Evangelical market, which virtually no major and precious few indys will touch—like they’re afraid of all that cash waiting to be collected. That’s money, lying all over the floor, and these guys are too lazy to pick it up. Mainstream comics have long had an arrogant Anglo point of view. All of Marvel’s films are Anglo-centric. At least the Batman film people were savvy enough to put Morgan Freeman front and center, while the Iron Man franchise has utterly wasted both Terrence Howard and Don Cheadle. This sends a message to minority communities, whether or not DC or Marvel realize it.

    DC staffers seemed, to me, hostile toward and perhaps jealous of Milestone. Marvel was not overtly hostile to The Crew, but, from my chair, they wrote it off as another failed Priest project. As many fans did, it felt to me as if Marvel had judged the book entirely from a racial point of view. Race First. Having not read a single word of this comic, it was branded a “ghetto” book and cancelled before the first issue arrived in stores. This after an arduous, months-long development process that just wore me out. There should be some rule that, if you’re going to put a writer through the ringer for months at a clip, you need to commit to the project for at least a year. You have to give it time to find an audience.

    Only, The Crew’s audience was not in comics shops (see sidebar). Write this down someplace: White People Don’t Buy Black Comics. Don’t clutch your chest. Sure, there are exceptions to that rule, but in the history of modern comic books, black characters have never, ever, sold as well as white characters. A series being branded a “black” book is (or, at least was) the kiss of death. I never expected The Crew to do well in comic shops through Diamond. I expected Marvel Marketing to get off their butts and at least make a phone call or two. I had spoken to a number of people anxious to see this book and to explore ways to co-op it; perhaps an in-pack with XXL or Vibe. I put together a CD of original rap and hip-hop from local artists. There’s tons of the stuff, free, theses guys were excited about being part of a Marvel Comic. Thousands of barber shops across the country are where minority kids go every other week: why isn’t there a comics rack in there? Why has both DC and Marvel marketing completely ignored the minority market for seventy-five years?

    Because they’re stupid. It’s not even racism, it’s stupidity. Entire departments at these places needed to be fired and, by God, had anybody ever been stupid enough to name me EIC, that would have been the first thing I’d do. Look, you’re either a businessman or you’re a fanboy. It’s tough to be both. A businessman sells. He doesn’t just sell to whites. He doesn’t just sell what he likes. A businessman sells both Coke and Pepsi. A businessman looks for any avenue available to get his product out there. I could be wrong, and I’ll gleefully admit so if someone wants to set me straight. But in twelve years behind desks at Marvel and DC, what I saw from the sales force were white guys talking to white guys about selling to white guys. They were woefully inept at connecting to women or minorities, and, to my knowledge, have never developed strong relationships in black or Latino markets.
    And it continues on a bit more on his website. A classic Priest rant... from 2011.

  12. #57
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    All Along The Watchtower
    Posts
    12,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Truth View Post
    And it continues on a bit more on his website. A classic Priest rant... from 2011.
    He definitely wasn't wrong about poor marketing plans and money being left on the floor.

  13. #58
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    All Along The Watchtower
    Posts
    12,601

    Default

    Looking back over the original YA, they seemed to make it easier for every else to be a hero except Eli.

    He was also written like the "old man" of the group.

  14. #59
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    He definitely wasn't wrong about poor marketing plans and money being left on the floor.
    Hell, companies are incapable of basic reflection or self examination. Rob Liefield still gets writing gigs because he created Deadpool, ignoring that it was other writers who added the attributes that made Deadpool popular.

  15. #60
    All-New Member The Truth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    10

    Default The Real

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Looking back over the original YA, they seemed to make it easier for every else to be a hero except Eli.

    He was also written like the "old man" of the group.
    Yeah, personally, I was never fond of the comic YOUNG AVENGERS. "Teen" books simply aren't my thing. I just liked the concept of Eli.

    Overall, and at risk of stating the obvious, "good" black characters are few and far between, so you gotta kind of take what you can get, right.

    I was never a huge fan of Luke Cage. Too "ghetto" for me. I grew up in a Cosby kid kind of life, so next to nothing about Luke Cage was cool to me.

    I was also never a... gasp... huge fan of the Black Panther. The whole African thing I could just never get with. I'm American. African-American. I love America. I love Jazz. I love Hip-Hop. I don't want to read about some king from some fictional African country. (Ha!)

    I greatly appreciate the character, no doubt. And he's arguably the best black super-hero ever created (and super-hero, period). But I don't really have a great deal of interest in the character. And I only saw the movie because I wanted to put in my support for the cause. Put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. And still waiting on Marvel on that, because when is Blade coming out? Who knows. And I don't even really care about Blade, but it's something.

    No, I want an American black super-hero that's as cool as T'Challa. Slim pickings on that though, yeah.

    So Josiah X was kind of that.







    His origin was cool as hell, I thought.

    And he was a black American super-hero that wasn't "ghetto." So about perfect to me.

    And not really a huge DC guy. I appreciate John Stewart... and why in the world did Geoff Johns take away (alter) the architect origin and made him a marine or whatever? How was that allowed to happen? Anyway, I love the "militant" John Stewart from GREEN LANTERN #87, but the Green Lantern concept isn't something that I'm that crazy about. And I appreciate John Ridley with Tim (Jace) Fox, but I'm not really that big of a Batman guy.

    I think I can like Icon, but I never cared for Rocket. So if they separate the two then I'll give him a shot. But since that will probably never happen... And never read any of the Milestone stuff when it was out the first time anyway, so we'll see what they have this time around.

    Anyway, I was a black kid growing up loving Captain America (because I love America; even with all of her faults), so when the TRUTH came around that was like, whoa. That was everything. America. Captain America. And black. So anything related to that was what was up as far as I was concerned.

    So Josiah X was it... for about 7 issues. (Grrrr... )

    And then once that was gone... oh, what's this, The Patriot. Okay, the comic is corny as hell (in my opinion), but I like Eli. He's Josiah's nephew, and Isaiah's grandson, so I'm good. They're doing some not so great things with him, in my view, but another writer can do better, so I'll just stick it out.

    Still waiting, of course. And nothing has really come up since that moves me all that much, so the wait continues.

    Of course, hopefully Kevin Feige and company will put him in the MCU and give him a Disney+ series. And marking off the days until The Falcon and the Winter Solider.

    Not putting too much stock on the comic side, but you never know, they may surprise me.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •