Kyle Rayner: Green Lantern Appreciation 2021

[SJNeal]

A character with a Mexican father is by definition a poc. Whether he "looks" that way or not, I suppose depends on how he is being drawn. If he's mixed-race then she he should look like he is as well.

We don't use the term "she he" anymore Johnny...

[SJNeal]

How is having a Mexican father "by definition" a POC. Race isn't just nationality. That's like saying Charlize Theron (who considers herself white) is by definition a POC because she's South African. What if Kyle's father was Argentinian instead of Mexican? Many Argentinians would scoff at being called a POC. I personally know someone who was born in Argentina to white Jewish immigrant parents who settled there years ago, where there is one of the largest Jewish populations in South America. He has blue eyes, brown hair, and neither he nor his parents consider themselves to be POCs simply because they are Argentinian. Nationality is a potential factor of race, just as appearance can be, but it is not a final decider or definition of race. Race is too complex too say that.

But if someone's ethnicity is Latino (not just Nationality) can't they claim the POC label?

Not that I can recall Kyle ever claiming Latino heritage, but just asking.

[Johnny]

How is having a Mexican father "by definition" a POC. Race isn't just nationality. That's like saying Charlize Theron (who considers herself white) is by definition a POC because she's South African. What if Kyle's father was Argentinian instead of Mexican? Many Argentinians would scoff at being called a POC. I personally know someone who was born in Argentina to white Jewish immigrant parents who settled there years ago, where there is one of the largest Jewish populations in South America. He has blue eyes, brown hair, and neither he nor his parents consider themselves to be POCs simply because they are Argentinian. Nationality is a potential factor of race, just as appearance can be, but it is not a final decider or definition of race. Race is too complex too say that.

Charlize Theron considers herself white because she is white not mixed-race like Kyle is. If she was mixed-race like him, I imagine she would consider herself to be a poc regardless of where she was born. If Kyle won't be seen as mixed-raced Latino, why do that retcon in the first place. And you sound a little emotional, so please calm down. We're just talking here.

[Johnny]

We don't use the term "she he" anymore Johnny...

Hey those are my typos dammit!

[BlueRuggo]

Charlize Theron considers herself white because she is white not mixed-race like Kyle is. If she was mixed-race like him, I imagine she would consider herself to be a poc regardless of where she was born. If Kyle won't be seen as mixed-raced Latino, why do that retcon in the first place. And you sound a little emotional, so please calm down. We're just talking here.

UPDATE: I was editing the post while you replied. Also, is Kyle's race as latino even mentioned as a thing? Not Mexican, but ethnically latino? I honestly don't know the answer.

Also, uh... emotional how? And where? Lol.

[BlueRuggo]

But if someone's ethnicity is Latino (not just Nationality) can't they claim the POC label?

Not that I can recall Kyle ever claiming Latino heritage, but just asking.

Yea, they probably could. I don't even know if Kyle claims it. Near as I can tell, he doesn't seem to ever acknowledge or care about it. Kyle may think of himself as a white American dude. That's generally been my impression, but who knows.

[Johnny]

UPDATE: I was editing the post while you replied. Also, is Kyle's race as latino even mentioned as a thing? Not Mexican, but ethnically latino? I honestly don't know the answer.

Also, uh... emotional how? And where? Lol.

Well whether any of us consider Kyle to be a person of color or not, DC apparently does consider him to be a diverse character.





And of course, here's Tom King in all of his glory.

[BlueRuggo]

They would probably say all their characters are diverse for different reasons. We've seen Batman speak like a dozen languages -- and unlike Kyle, he probably speaks them fluently, lol.

[married guy]

well whether any of us consider kyle to be a person of color or not, dc apparently does consider him to be a diverse character.





and of course, here's tom king in all of his glory.

my eyes!! My eyes!!!
The horror!

[SJNeal]

My new head canon says Kyle used the power of Ion to download Spanish to his brain...

[SebastianS]

Argentinian here.

In general, we have such a huge amount of Spanish and/or Italian ascendants (among others), that we don't see ourselves (generally) as POC. I have seen Americans confused by this: I specifically remember one instance when an American friend of mine (many many years ago) made a drawing of me as a Green Lantern, and him knowing I was from Argentina, but not knowing my facial features or skin color (this was during the early Internet age), he drew me black. I remember another instance, quite recently in fact, where a POC writer publicly discussed the support of his POC editor. The POC editor turned to be an Argentinian friend living in London, who revealed to me he was confused -and amused- at being called a POC.

Personally, I was born and lived in Argentina for 30 years, before moving to Tallinn (Estonia, in the Baltics). My great grandparents were Italian and Spanish, and I could (and do) pass as Spanish (except for the accent). I am definitely not considered a POC here or anywhere I have traveled.

Even though Kyle is my preferred GL, I still struggle to call him POC, and him being half-Mexican doesn't change that.

[SJNeal]

Great insight, SebastianS! Thank you for sharing that.

[SebastianS]

Great insight, SebastianS! Thank you for sharing that.

Sure! Happy to chip in!

[ducklord]

As shoehorn retconny as it is, I'm generally in favor of Kyle's stapled-on Latino heritage. 'Cause let's face it, DC really missed a golden opportunity to add some diversity when they originally created the character.

"Okay, we've gotten rid of Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps, so it's time to create an all-new Green Lantern for a new generation of 90's readers. Let's put on our creative caps and think outside the box, people. Maybe some sort of in-over-their-head Peter Parker type?"
"Great, I've got just the thing - how about a twentysomething white guy from New York City?"
"Peter Parker was supposed to be a metaphor, Ron."
"Ooh, then you're probably not going to be happy when you hear what I've got in mind for his girlfriend."

I've grown to like Kyle over the years (mostly thanks to Grant Morrison), but man, that rollout was, um, bumpy.

[SJNeal]

I've grown to like Kyle over the years (mostly thanks to Grant Morrison), but man, that rollout was, um, bumpy.

Due mostly to the fact that Marz had all of 5 minutes to do so after the original "Emerald Twilight" was scrapped...