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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducklord View Post
    As shoehorn retconny as it is, I'm generally in favor of Kyle's stapled-on Latino heritage. 'Cause let's face it, DC really missed a golden opportunity to add some diversity when they originally created the character.

    "Okay, we've gotten rid of Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps, so it's time to create an all-new Green Lantern for a new generation of 90's readers. Let's put on our creative caps and think outside the box, people. Maybe some sort of in-over-their-head Peter Parker type?"
    "Great, I've got just the thing - how about a twentysomething white guy from New York City?"
    "Peter Parker was supposed to be a metaphor, Ron."
    "Ooh, then you're probably not going to be happy when you hear what I've got in mind for his girlfriend."

    I've grown to like Kyle over the years (mostly thanks to Grant Morrison), but man, that rollout was, um, bumpy.
    Jessica Cruz has already filled the gap you are looking for. There is also Simon Baz and Teen Lantern. There is also the lady from Far Sector. Why be in favor of it now? Changing people's race/ethnicity 30 years after the fact is idiotic and grotesque. I promote diversity too, but after all this time and all these other characters, what would be the point of shoehorn of retconning Kyle's race now?
    Last edited by BlueRuggo; 02-03-2021 at 08:16 PM.

  2. #62
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    ^ ^ ^

    It's not "now". Judd Winick already did it like 20+ yrs ago...
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducklord View Post
    I've grown to like Kyle over the years (mostly thanks to Grant Morrison), but man, that rollout was, um, bumpy.
    Originally, Kyle wasn't even part of the equation. The original plan was deemed not drastic enough of a change, so Ron Marz came in and whipped up Emerald Twilight at the last minute.
    It's why there was such a JARRING change in direction from #47 to #48.
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  4. #64
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Originally, Kyle wasn't even part of the equation. The original plan was deemed not drastic enough of a change, so Ron Marz came in and whipped up Emerald Twilight at the last minute.
    It's why there was such a JARRING change in direction from #47 to #48.
    While Marz was the one who took most of the H.E.A.T. (see what I did there? ), he actually just scripted a plot provided to him by an evil cabal of disgruntled editors that included Kevin Dooley, Archie Goodwin, and Dennis O'Neil.

    But yes, it was jarring to say the least...
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    ^ ^ ^

    It's not "now". Judd Winick already did it like 20+ yrs ago...
    Not really, and not in any meaningful way. All I think that we've been told is that he has a Mexican father. Based on the statements that were made in the last two pages, that doesn't necessarily change Kyle being white. There may have been more background that I just have never seen though.

    Has anyone actually seen any panels where it is stated that Kyle actually has Latino ethnicity rather than just a father with a Mexican nationality?
    Last edited by BlueRuggo; 02-05-2021 at 07:33 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRuggo View Post
    Not really, and not in any meaningful way. All I think that we've been told is that he has a Mexican father. Based on the statements that were made in the last two pages, that doesn't necessarily change Kyle being white. There may have been more background that I just have never ssen though.

    Has anyone actually seen any panels where it is stated that Kyle actually has Latino ethnicity rather than just a father with a Mexican nationality?
    Well during the retcon with Judd Winick, I remember his father was trying to prove to him that he's half Mexican by saying it explains why his eyes aren't blue or something like that.

    When Justin Jordan took over in New Guardians, Kyle's eyes were drawn to be blue, which contradicts all of that. And his father's name was Aaron Rayner, not Gabriel Vasquez. The whole CIA thing with father never existed. He was just a car mechanic.

    When Tom King did the Omega Men with Kyle, he had him speak Spanish, which is another contradiction, since he didn't know he was mixed in the first place and Just Jordan wiped all of that out. Tom King considered Kyle to be POC and full hispanic.

    So much inconsistencies from writers lol

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    While Marz was the one who took most of the H.E.A.T. (see what I did there? ), he actually just scripted a plot provided to him by an evil cabal of disgruntled editors that included Kevin Dooley, Archie Goodwin, and Dennis O'Neil.

    But yes, it was jarring to say the least...
    Poor Ron. He really did cop it didn't he?
    I thought he did a great job given how he was dropped into the deep end straight up.
    Kyle was a great addition, and the supporting cast he surrounded him with was inspired - Radu, John, Guy, Donna (then Jenni).
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  8. #68
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    Kyle Rayner will have a cameo in Infinite Frontier and we'll learn about what he's doing and where he's going. Williamson was a bit coy about it, teasing that there's more to come!
    That's great.

  9. #69
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    Kyle Rayner will have a cameo in Infinite Frontier and we'll learn about what he's doing and where he's going. Williamson was a bit coy about it, teasing that there's more to come!

    So long as Tom King stays the hell away from him, I'm happy!! Hopefully, he's given a little more prominence as he's closer to John Stewart than Hal ever was.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    Kyle Rayner will have a cameo in Infinite Frontier and we'll learn about what he's doing and where he's going. Williamson was a bit coy about it, teasing that there's more to come!

    So long as Tom King stays the hell away from him, I'm happy!! Hopefully, he's given a little more prominence as he's closer to John Stewart than Hal ever was.
    I mean, hopefully, we can see Kyle, especially because he had the closest relationship with Alan Scott and Jade than any other GL (as far as I know), too. That being said.... I would be happy if Kyle becomes the Titans resident GL. This direction has been teased several times (some issues in the Titans back in the 90s, some issues in the most recent Titans iteration, and the Death Metal Special).

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    When Tom King did the Omega Men with Kyle, he had him speak Spanish, which is another contradiction, since he didn't know he was mixed in the first place and Just Jordan wiped all of that out. Tom King considered Kyle to be POC and full hispanic.

    So much inconsistencies from writers lol
    I loved that story, anyway Kyle speaking Spanish was hilarious and so out of character. The full story could easily be classified as an Elseworld. One of the few comics to save from that DC publishing period.


    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    So long as Tom King stays the hell away from him, I'm happy!!
    I can feel you on this for some reasons (Kyle's characterization, King's tendency to distort characters), despite all Omega Men was a great comic. Did you enjoy it?
    Last edited by failo.legendkiller; 02-19-2021 at 02:11 AM.

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    That's good to hear. Probably wont be much as Kyle is nowhere to be seen In the Infinite Frontier solicits but at least hes getting some acknowledgement.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by failo.legendkiller View Post
    I loved that story, anyway Kyle speaking Spanish was hilarious and so out of character. The full story could easily be classified as an Elseworld. One of the few comics to save from that DC publishing period.

    I can feel you on this for some reasons (Kyle's characterization, King's tendency to distort characters), despite all Omega Men was a great comic. Did you enjoy it?
    I loved it!! Which lulled me into a false sense of security in regards to King's writing as it's the ONLY thing I've read of his I've enjoyed.
    I find his take on Batman, Booster and worst of all Wally is just bloody awful.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    I loved it!! Which lulled me into a false sense of security in regards to King's writing as it's the ONLY thing I've read of his I've enjoyed.
    I find his take on Batman, Booster and worst of all Wally is just bloody awful.
    Well Grayson is excellent too, even though he was just co-writer.
    I agree with you on the other titles, most of all for Heroes in Crisis. The worst comic of decade hands down (and it's not one of the best decades).
    If my memory serves me well there is a confessional panel where Kyle is speaking Spanish even in that awful comic.

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Tom King is a strange case. I've heard nothing but great things about his work on Kyle in Omega Men. Then he goes and pulls that in Heroes In Crisis.

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