(Cobra Kai) Miguel & Tory vs Sam & Robby

[Kuro]

He hasn't shown aptitude for training, but if he does learn something he'll pull farther ahead from Demitri as the character I like least.

It seems the last alumns they haven't pulled in yet are Mike Barnes and...uh...Julie Pierce (Hilary Swank).

Granted Mike is probably in jail by now and Julie is on the other coast, but who knows.

Ehhh. We're taking about a world where Jonny and Daniel just happen to have super secret naruto-level special moves hidden in scrolls for the sake of plot convenience. Mere prison walls won't stop plot conveniences for Mikey. And an air plane ticket across the country is only a couple hundred dollars. She can scrounge that up to go play karate with a bunch of middle aged men.

Speaking of scrolls, you KNOW Lapusso is going to be the one to learn it.

He's not ahead of Demitri as a character you like least? Wow. I think it's pretty accepted that Lapusso is like the Jar Jar Binks of CK.

[grampagen]

Ehhh. We're taking about a world where Jonny and Daniel just happen to have super secret naruto-level special moves hidden in scrolls for the sake of plot convenience.

I kinda view the Cobra Kai show through the lens that it's a distorted reality where mini-mall karate is serious business. Given it's an ougrowth from the series of movies which have their share of goofiness I don't think having a few techs like that is out there.

Mere prison walls won't stop plot conveniences for Mikey. And an air plane ticket across the country is only a couple hundred dollars. She can scrounge that up to go play karate with a bunch of middle aged men.

...that's so dumb I hope this happens. And only the prodigal Miyagi-do disciple from the East Coast can take down Terry Silver's hired gun, lol

Speaking of scrolls, you KNOW Lapusso is going to be the one to learn it.

He's not ahead of Demitri as a character you like least? Wow. I think it's pretty accepted that Lapusso is like the Jar Jar Binks of CK.

Demitri is a nerd stereotypes that offends me on a few levels. While Miguel and Eli were put-upon, relatable losers that needed to break out of their shells, Demitri is the kind of snot that deserves every wedgie. His intelligence is mostly an informed attribute powered by stereotypes - moreso than the rest of the cast - and yet, somehow, he can't stop winning. Madness.

By contrast, Anthony is an ineffectual non-entity who got his, though he created a monster by pushing Kenny as far as he did. He's effectively powerless, and a cathartic speedbump other characters can bounce off of.

[Kuro]

I kinda view the Cobra Kai show through the lens that it's a distorted reality where mini-mall karate is serious business. Given it's an ougrowth from the series of movies which have their share of goofiness I don't think having a few techs like that is out there.





...that's so dumb I hope this happens. And only the prodigal Miyagi-do disciple from the East Coast can take down Terry Silver's hired gun, lol

She might be able to take out Barnes, but she won't be able to defeat Cheng and Master Li from the Kung Fu kid. That's how season 6 will start out. Cobra Kai, Eagle Fang, and Miyagi Do will prove to be ineffective against Kung Fu so they will travel to China to meet a random janitor named Han who will teach them Kung Fu, which they then combine with CK/EF/MD to form a new style called Griffin-Kai. They'll then win the new All-valley tournament named "Under 19" because obviously, they're still teens. At the end of this season, Barnes, Li, Kreese, and Silver all perform the Fusion-ha dance to form a composite villain who has the combined abilities of ALL the villain styles along with the added bonus of Chong Li from Bloodsport levels of cheapness. In comes the FINAL season of CK, while they're fighting against the composite villain, there is a subplot that reveals that Mister Miyagi from beyond the grave was the TRUE TRUE villain who was manipulating the events that had transpired.

Oh and in the middle of all that, Lapusso gets dropped into the Marianas Trench.

I am calling it right now. Once I am proven to be right, I want to be crowned a mod here.

Demitri is a nerd stereotypes that offends me on a few levels. While Miguel and Eli were put-upon, relatable losers that needed to break out of their shells, Demitri is the kind of snot that deserves every wedgie. His intelligence is mostly an informed attribute powered by stereotypes - moreso than the rest of the cast - and yet, somehow, he can't stop winning. Madness.

This is true. I thought him getting the hot girlfriend was really more about wish fulfillment than actually good writing. He's like the Thanos of CK verse.

By contrast, Anthony is an ineffectual non-entity who got his, though he created a monster by pushing Kenny as far as he did. He's effectively powerless, and a cathartic speedbump other characters can bounce off of.

Lapusso was an awful character from the first moment he appeared on scene. Maybe he'll get Kenshiro-pressure pointed into basically being weak forever and the other characters use that as an inspiration to get stronger.

[Rightoya]

So how we ranking the main characters strenght guys?

Personally i think something like:


Anything goes:

Chozen
T. Silver
Larusso
Johnny Lawrence
Kreese
Miguel
Robbie
Hawk
Tory
Sam
Kenny
Lapusso


Karate Tournament 3 point win:

Chozen
Larusso/Johnny Lawrence
T. Silver
Kreese
Miguel
Hawk
Robbie
Sam/Tory
Kenny
Lapusso

I don't get parts of your rankings, this is what i would say as an all out ranking:

1. Chosen
2. Daniel/Terry Silver
3. Johnny
4. Kreese
5. Robby/Season 2 Miguel
6. Hawk/Tory
7. Sam/Season 4 Miguel
8. Kenny
99. Lapusso

Daniel has pressure points and is higher ranked than Johnny because he could use them fully in an all out fight, Terry Silver was very impressive, Robby lost to Hawk as he basically lost the will to win and that is the opposite of an all out fight mindset, i am not even sure if Season 2 Miguel is on par with Robby now but Season 4 Miguel's still not recovered body would be a big problem for all-out fights, Tory is definitively stronger than Sam and a step above her own self in a 3 point tournament, Lapusso is Lapusso.

[Kuro]

The Lapusso Dunkin' is mighty satisfying.

[Oswin]

I don't get parts of your rankings, this is what i would say as an all out ranking:

1. Chosen
2. Daniel/Terry Silver
3. Johnny
4. Kreese
5. Robby/Season 2 Miguel
6. Hawk/Tory
7. Sam/Season 4 Miguel
8. Kenny
99. Lapusso

Daniel has pressure points and is higher ranked than Johnny because he could use them fully in an all out fight, Terry Silver was very impressive, Robby lost to Hawk as he basically lost the will to win and that is the opposite of an all out fight mindset, i am not even sure if Season 2 Miguel is on par with Robby now but Season 4 Miguel's still not recovered body would be a big problem for all-out fights, Tory is definitively stronger than Sam and a step above her own self in a 3 point tournament, Lapusso is Lapusso.

Allow me to to defend my list

Going by the individuals:

Miguel is the golden boy (Opposite to Robbie's Bad boy), the most talented, the most potential, and still undefeated. Both Daniel and Johnny are drooling all over him when they had the chance to train him (please note, nobody really says anything about robbie being special). when it comes to athleticism nobody beats him (not even the adults) the dude was doing flying tornado kicks, flying in the air like a nba pro. the plot gave the writers a way out not to have him win the tournament again ( oh no his back! oh not just a pulled muscle , he is fine, oh he doesnt feel good about the tourny anymore... ) personally i beieve he will never get defeated in a tournament unless specific caveats are in place.

Hawk my boi Hawk *hawk squawk* is basically comicbook gladiator, if his confidence is up he is a major threat to both Robbie and Miguel, if it's is low, a half ass trained dimitri got a good shot lol. During that battle royal in the woods he and miguel were the last remaining. (excluding stringray) , his athleticism is also way up there (higher than robbie, though not as high as miguel). as for the tournament fight agaisnt Robbie, yes Robbie hesitated and cost him a point, but if you remember the first point for robbie was also against a hawk who didnt know what style to use, till he used Hawk style *hawk squawk* so both kinda had a point lost to em. the dudes main weakness was, he is overly aggressive ,always makes defensive openings for his opponents to strike, miyagi-do defense style made him damn near a complete fighter. I hope he grows his mohawk back, i always liked him, even in near straight up bully mode.

Terry Silver is a dirty fighter (just kidding! *hides from sharp*) hehe, anyways.... the guy has major reach, the reason i put him higher than larusso is only because daniel's pressure points arent that super refined yet really, and i wouldnt be suprised if t silver still had a advantage based on his skill and reach alone. what i didnt understand is how it came off like silver was scared of kreese for some reason..

Tory athleticism also way up there, but i don't see how she can beat any of the 3 male kids, Robbie would simply overpower her, and hawk and miguel should beat her soundly to. as for her match up with Sam, the ref stole 1 point for Sam, and 1 point Sam lost at the start when trying to focus on miyago-do style. Basically Sam beat her if it wasnt for the ref. And sure, sam's mom asked Tory to "play by the rules", but that doesnt mean hold back. in a actual fight Tory still wins though.

Hopefully Chozen gets to train Hawk and Miguel and its not even an arguement anymore

[Rightoya]

Allow me to to defend my list

Going by the individuals:

Miguel is the golden boy (Opposite to Robbie's Bad boy), the most talented, the most potential, and still undefeated. Both Daniel and Johnny are drooling all over him when they had the chance to train him (please note, nobody really says anything about robbie being special). when it comes to athleticism nobody beats him (not even the adults) the dude was doing flying tornado kicks, flying in the air like a nba pro. the plot gave the writers a way out not to have him win the tournament again ( oh no his back! oh not just a pulled muscle , he is fine, oh he doesnt feel good about the tourny anymore... ) personally i beieve he will never get defeated in a tournament unless specific caveats are in place.

I feel like you overestimate Miguel, he was the best student, but he had also the most training at the end of season 2 outside of Sam, and he had more recent training. And his athleticism is definitively not better than the adults, except you just mean agility.

Hawk my boi Hawk *hawk squawk* is basically comicbook gladiator, if his confidence is up he is a major threat to both Robbie and Miguel, if it's is low, a half ass trained dimitri got a good shot lol. During that battle royal in the woods he and miguel were the last remaining. (excluding stringray) , his athleticism is also way up there (higher than robbie, though not as high as miguel). as for the tournament fight agaisnt Robbie, yes Robbie hesitated and cost him a point, but if you remember the first point for robbie was also against a hawk who didnt know what style to use, till he used Hawk style *hawk squawk* so both kinda had a point lost to em. the dudes main weakness was, he is overly aggressive ,always makes defensive openings for his opponents to strike, miyagi-do defense style made him damn near a complete fighter. I hope he grows his mohawk back, i always liked him, even in near straight up bully mode.

Hawks offscreen woods feats are questionable, because we saw what tactics he truly used, and Robby had just better feats. I agree on the part of Myagi-Do helping him a lot though.

Terry Silver is a dirty fighter (just kidding! *hides from sharp*) hehe, anyways.... the guy has major reach, the reason i put him higher than larusso is only because daniel's pressure points arent that super refined yet really, and i wouldnt be suprised if t silver still had a advantage based on his skill and reach alone. what i didnt understand is how it came off like silver was scared of kreese for some reason..

That is fair, but i would personally still put Daniel on par if he is willing to use pressure points.

And i think the main reason why Terry Silver was like that around Kreese, goes still all the way back to Vietnam, and i don't even think that would have changed if Chozen had turned him into a pressure points master.

Tory athleticism also way up there, but i don't see how she can beat any of the 3 male kids, Robbie would simply overpower her, and hawk and miguel should beat her soundly to. as for her match up with Sam, the ref stole 1 point for Sam, and 1 point Sam lost at the start when trying to focus on miyago-do style. Basically Sam beat her if it wasnt for the ref. And sure, sam's mom asked Tory to "play by the rules", but that doesnt mean hold back. in a actual fight Tory still wins though.

Sorry but almost 100% disagreed on this one, after i looked up what storm drains are typically made off, i can confidently say that none of the boys has better striking feats than Tory's heavily bending the storm drain with a simple kick feat in season 3, her durability is crazy too, and her agility fkr a fight is clear-cut just not as good as Miguels but even against him still competetive enough. She is also easily the second most talented with at least the second most potential, she literally came in as a relative decent challenge for Miguel as she had not even Karate training but just some Kickbox lessons, and let's be honest Karate is just better in Karate Kid and Cobra Kai. And for her now basically counts the same like for Hawk, she got like Hawk rid of her main weakness, but has the added advantage of not just Myagi Do training but also training to actually counter Myagi Do. You also can't just assume that the fight with Sam would have been the same without the referee leading to an early lead for Tory, and specifically the last point showed that she was clearly holding back, she outright broke Sam's defense and put her off balance for the last hit, but immediately after the hit was concerned that she possibly had hurt Sam too much. And even if we assume that Sam would have closely won, an all-out fight is a completely different ball-game and plays far more towards Tory's advantages over Sam.

All in all i don't see any good reason to rank Hawk higher than Tory in an all-out fight, they are basically the same now, with some advantages in different regards over each other. And no teen in Cobra Kai is beating Tory soundly as of now, it would be even a bit of a stretch already to say Season 4 Miguel or Sam would get soundly beaten by any teen.

Hopefully Chozen gets to train Hawk and Miguel and its not even an arguement anymore

I like Hawk and Miguel, and i dislike Robby and Sam, but that would be just a terrible idea. These 2 leaving the 3 others behind would just feel wrong, and there would be also the problem that it would turn any teens confrontation into just fodder control for Hawk and Miguel.

[Oswin]

I feel like you overestimate Miguel, he was the best student, but he had also the most training at the end of season 2 outside of Sam, and he had more recent training. And his athleticism is definitively not better than the adults, except you just mean agility.

Yea my bad, i did mean agililty/spryly , youthfulness , fitness etc. Apparently athleticism also includes strenght, and yea he isnt stronger than the adults.

Hawks offscreen woods feats are questionable, because we saw what tactics he truly used, and Robby had just better feats. I agree on the part of Myagi-Do helping him a lot though.

The fact that he could get all the way up those trees is impressive in of itself. plus, all the fighters could use the very same tactic he used, at the end of the day, in my opinion the 2 best fighters were left (again, not including stingray)

Sorry but almost 100% disagreed on this one, after i looked up what storm drains are typically made off, i can confidently say that none of the boys has better striking feats than Tory's heavily bending the storm drain with a simple kick feat in season 3, her durability is crazy too, and her agility fkr a fight is clear-cut just not as good as Miguels but even against him still competetive enough. She is also easily the second most talented with at least the second most potential, she literally came in as a relative decent challenge for Miguel as she had not even Karate training but just some Kickbox lessons, and let's be honest Karate is just better in Karate Kid and Cobra Kai. And for her now basically counts the same like for Hawk, she got like Hawk rid of her main weakness, but has the added advantage of not just Myagi Do training but also training to actually counter Myagi Do. You also can't just assume that the fight with Sam would have been the same without the referee leading to an early lead for Tory, and specifically the last point showed that she was clearly holding back, she outright broke Sam's defense and put her off balance for the last hit, but immediately after the hit was concerned that she possibly had hurt Sam too much. And even if we assume that Sam would have closely won, an all-out fight is a completely different ball-game and plays far more towards Tory's advantages over Sam.

All in all i don't see any good reason to rank Hawk higher than Tory in an all-out fight, they are basically the same now, with some advantages in different regards over each other. And no teen in Cobra Kai is beating Tory soundly as of now, it would be even a bit of a stretch already to say Season 4 Miguel or Sam would get soundly beaten by any teen.

1 minor dislike about the series is they never let Sam or Tory fight 1 on 1 against the named male students so i can't really go off much. Tory loses against Robbie after he took the rest of the dojo without getting hit (mind you, most of em were mooks anyway but still) Tory loses and only manages to hit robbie back when his guard is down, kinda like with Miguel.In fact, in a later episode she again only manages to hit robbie when his guard is down, its annoying. for this reason i can't put her over any of the big 3 male students.

now, i don't know what level of strenght it takes to bend a stormdrain with a kick, but going by the rest of what we see in the show i wouldnt say she is physically stronger than the other students as sharp would say, milage may vary.

as i said in my ranking i still think Tory is stronger than Sam in an actualy fight.

I like Hawk and Miguel, and i dislike Robby and Sam, but that would be just a terrible idea. These 2 leaving the 3 others behind would just feel wrong, and there would be also the problem that it would turn any teens confrontation into just fodder control for Hawk and Miguel.

hehe i'm only half kidding, The shows MO really is to keep making the main students switch to another side anyway, i'm sure Tory will leave cobrai kai some day, and robby as well.

[Oswin]

Looking purely at the training they received ( this is not indicative of their overal fighting ability ) :


Miguel: First hand Miyagi-do training + special treatment / First hand Cobrai kai training + special treatment
Robby: First hand Miyagi-do training + special treatment / First hand Cobrai kai training
Hawk: First hand Miyagido training / First hand Cobra kai training
Tory: Second hand Miyagido training / First hand Cobra kai training
Sam: First hand Miyagi-do training + special treatment / First hand Cobra kai training (Eagle fang is basically Cobrai kai without being an *******)

[Rightoya]

Yea my bad, i did mean agililty/spryly , youthfulness , fitness etc. Apparently athleticism also includes strenght, and yea he isnt stronger than the adults.

This makes more sense.

The fact that he could get all the way up those trees is impressive in of itself. plus, all the fighters could use the very same tactic he used, at the end of the day, in my opinion the 2 best fighters were left (again, not including stingray)

I don't think anyone but Stingray did, and now that i think about it, Hawk probably was never better than Tory after a certain point, he had even trouble with Sam too.

1 minor dislike about the series is they never let Sam or Tory fight 1 on 1 against the named male students so i can't really go off much. Tory loses against Robbie after he took the rest of the dojo without getting hit (mind you, most of em were mooks anyway but still) Tory loses and only manages to hit robbie back when his guard is down, kinda like with Miguel.In fact, in a later episode she again only manages to hit robbie when his guard is down, its annoying. for this reason i can't put her over any of the big 3 male students.

This reasoning makes not much sense, Robby should be at least to a degree above Hawk and to an even bigger degree above Season 4 Miguel, and if Tory would have been a truly good match for Robby in the first episode of season 4 already before even learning 1 bit Miyagi Do she would be easily the best of the teens now.

now, i don't know what level of strenght it takes to bend a stormdrain with a kick, but going by the rest of what we see in the show i wouldnt say she is physically stronger than the other students as sharp would say, milage may vary.

The material is more durable than many metals and a tenth of steel, and she bended it all the way through with a simple kick, Hawks striking feats as example come not even close. And Tory had quite a few times some serious power feats now that i think about, the stormdrain feat was just the best of them.

as i said in my ranking i still think Tory is stronger than Sam in an actualy fight.

I also still don't see any good reason to rank Hawk higher though.

hehe i'm only half kidding, The shows MO really is to keep making the main students switch to another side anyway, i'm sure Tory will leave cobrai kai some day, and robby as well.

Yeah, Robby basically left already, and Tory has 2 good reasons to leave already.

Looking purely at the training they received ( this is not indicative of their overal fighting ability ) :


Miguel: First hand Miyagi-do training + special treatment / First hand Cobrai kai training + special treatment
Robby: First hand Miyagi-do training + special treatment / First hand Cobrai kai training
Hawk: First hand Miyagido training / First hand Cobra kai training
Tory: Second hand Miyagido training / First hand Cobra kai training
Sam: First hand Miyagi-do training + special treatment / First hand Cobra kai training (Eagle fang is basically Cobrai kai without being an *******)

You need to include Robby's and Tory's specifically learning how to counter Miyagi Do training too, Sam's Eagle Fang training was definitively the worst due to breaks and at first less focus on combat, and even Hawk had a break in his Miyagi Do training. And i still don't like Robby very much, but he had probably overall the best training by now due to Miguel's physical issues, without the Season 2 finale accident would have had Miguel with almost 100% certainty the best training by now though.

And we seriously need to talk about Lapusso, because that kid has a bright future as the 98. best martial arts teen in the Cobra Kai series ahead of himself

[Oswin]

*Casts resurrection spell*
*fights of zombies*


Well after the last season my old list wasnt too bad

Robbie has finally had some added character development and is no longer a jackass, he also admitted Hawk beat him fairly in the tour, and Miguel showed that current Miguel is stronger then current Robbie.

Slightly revised



Anything goes:

Chozen
Larusso
Johnny Lawrence
T. Silver
Kreese
Miguel
Robbie/Hawk
Tory/Sam
Kenny
Lapusso


Karate Tournament 3 point win:

Chozen
Larusso/Johnny Lawrence
T. Silver
Kreese
Miguel
Hawk
Robbie
Sam
Tory
Kenny
Lapusso


Also, a drunk johnny was holding his own against like 5 masters, some nice added feats.

As of now, Miguel and Tory would beat Robbie and Sam. and honestly, probably anyone paired with Miguel will be the winning side.

Kenny also got a good deal stronger with his Silver bullet, but most of his fights were against people who A. didnt want to fight him or B. were severely underestimating him. so he probably is still at the spot he is. he beats the nonamed cobra kai's and kyler though.

[Rightoya]

*Casts resurrection spell*
*fights of zombies*


Well after the last season my old list wasnt too bad

Robbie has finally had some added character development and is no longer a jackass, he also admitted Hawk beat him fairly in the tour, and Miguel showed that current Miguel is stronger then current Robbie.

Slightly revised



Anything goes:

Chozen
Larusso
Johnny Lawrence
T. Silver
Kreese
Miguel
Robbie/Hawk
Tory/Sam
Kenny
Lapusso


Karate Tournament 3 point win:

Chozen
Larusso/Johnny Lawrence
T. Silver
Kreese
Miguel
Hawk
Robbie
Sam
Tory
Kenny
Lapusso


Also, a drunk johnny was holding his own against like 5 masters, some nice added feats.

As of now, Miguel and Tory would beat Robbie and Sam. and honestly, probably anyone paired with Miguel will be the winning side.

Kenny also got a good deal stronger with his Silver bullet, but most of his fights were against people who A. didnt want to fight him or B. were severely underestimating him. so he probably is still at the spot he is. he beats the nonamed cobra kai's and kyler though.

I have to disagree even more, because Season 5 made just even more clear that Hawk is definitively not above Tory, and even Sam has a case to be on that level now, you truly need to stop to give the male fighters such an odd benefit of the doubt just because of the for this universe very random divided male and female tourney categories, even though i would say they did Hawk dirty.

[Ulysian_Thracs]

I love Cobra Kai, and I didn't stop to think how the power rankings are so similar to comic books. The power levels simply make no sense and the writers are completely inconsistent. They just give anyone whatever skill they need to drive the plot. My biggest pet peeve is how the hell did Kenny get so good in like a few months? I'm willing to suspend my disbelief that ANYONE could earn a first blackbelt in under a year like Miguel, Robby, and Sam. (I know from personal experience; it took me six, thought I was far from an exceptional student.) But then you have Kenny winning fights and students beating the big bad trope sensei from Korea(?)...

Anyway, I see Robby as potentially the best because of his statement that he has no use for styles; he will use all of them to win and was personally trained by Danny Kreese (better than Johnny) and Silver. I think Hawk is next because he synthesized Eagle Fang/Myagi-do better than Miguel, but both lack Silver's techniques.

I think Tory and Sam are more interesting b/c Tory lacks the defense of Myagi-Do, but has Silver's training.