Kwannon: Psylocke II / Revanche Appreciation 2021

[CGAR]

The editor has said that she has that uniform because it’s the most recognizable uniform that was in the highest grossing X-men comic issue.

So basically we’ve never really gotten an in story reason why Kwannon wants to wear or keep that uniform.

Other than her saying she’s taking everything associated with the Psylocke code name. (Paraphrasing)

[Silvermoth]

I mean, I guess it’s easier to kick in? I don’t know, I suppose if someone wanted to give Kwannon a new costume that would be cool especially if it was an Asian artist but I really like that she owns the name Psylocke now. It is a pretty well known name out of the comics too and I’m just glad it’s Kwannon’s and not Betsy’s

[ChronoRogue]

Oh, I know why they're keeping her with the same look... But they should have her go with a new look for a year or so. Similar to when Storm had the mohawk. A rebellious streak to break away from the norm.
Not saying Kwannon needs a mohawk - but I feel like she needs a new look for a year or two - and then slowly go back to the "Psylocke" look we all know.
Giving readers an easy way to tell the difference for awhile between Kwannon and what was formerly Betsy.
As you said - you'd think she'd want to rebel and show the world she's her own person - but literally creating a new "identity"/look for herself.

I mean I agree with you but from a marketing standpoint I can see why they are trying to get her to inherit Betsy's.

Maybe they should've altered her design a bit at least to carve her own individuality into the design further?


Something like her Demon Days design, though it's still very derivative of the bathing suit.

And I am very cool with Betsy moving forward as Captain Britain now.

Me too. I'm not the biggest fan of Excalibur's writing but the concept itself is pretty exciting. It really gives Betsy her own niche different from the many, many other TP/TK dime a dozen psionics in the X-Men.

Yeah - I feel like he's got Greycrow down nicely.
Kwannon just feels like an angry (Ninja) Betsy to me. Which is why I wish they gave her another persona or something.
Wildchild feels on the mark - he's always been more animalistic. (Except in X-Factor which was off the mark ... way off the mark...)
Empath... Well, it's easy to write an arsehat. So he's got that down.
Nanny and such - there's never been much to them.

Sinister however... is... too light hearted...

So he's really my main issue.

I think Kwannon's personality fits. You can't her deviate too much because while she is somewhat a blank canvas, we know she was involved with the Hand and with a lot of shady characters. Someone involved in the underworld isn't going to be sunshine and rainbows (well, beyond the one's who have completely lost their minds). And she really doesn't have much to be happy about right now to be fair. Maybe we'll learn more differences as she gains more of a history but for right now, her anger and sorrow make sense.

The new Sinister started with Gillen as stated, so Wells isn't exactly inventing a new personality for him. Hickman also wrote him that way at the start of Dawn of X, so it's something that the line itself wanted him to change with rather than anything Wells started. I think comparing this Sinister with the 90s version is jarring as well but I've had more time to accumulate. Maybe he's just cuckoo for coco puffs due to being cloned way too many times? Who knows.

[Shadowcat]

I wonder if Matsuo will come back to be an emotional touchstone for Kwannon, and add something from her past.

[Killerbee911]

The editor has said that she has that uniform because it’s the most recognizable uniform that was in the highest grossing X-men comic issue.

So many people don't seem to get this part but beyond that, it is the most drawn costume by fans. The thing people say get rid of is the very popular thing fans like to draw and use. Every time someone says Kwannon needs to be her own thing and change, they overlook her own thing is being "Psylocke" and Psylocke for now is defined as "the Asian period of Betsy Braddock". Now the most difficult part of the equation is that they didn't give Kwannon ownership/memories of that period which would have killed these arguments like this but from an out-of-universe perspective that is what has happened is Kwannon now "owns" most thing associated with the ninja period of Betsy . She does not need her "own" thing Betsy will never be an Asian body again and never will use that archetype in that manner. Kwannon now "owns" the elements that people need to go away.

More importantly, people keep on saying things need to change as if it is some easy task to make a character work. Hypothetically if they change all the stuff what if the character is not popular or it does not work? You have just messed something that worked for no reason and hurt a character who does have a lot of things going for them as yet. If it was so easy to change a code name and look it would happen all the time take Kitty Pryde, Rachel Grey, Jean Grey and many other characters would have a set look and name already. If the character is around long enough she will get a new look and mission statement. And as a smaller character, a redesign is when people will focus on you again so changing Kwannon before that point just steals opportunity for her to get focus. The first time Kwannon changes her look will be a big deal for the character so they should hold that in their pocket until they really need to use it. I think it is two step process

1. Do everything in your power to make the character stick around
2. After the character becomes something people want to consistently see make changes if needed.

[Uncanny X-Man]

There are much more recognizable costumes however that have been updated. Cyclops was also in the best-selling comicbook of all time with his Jim Lee-designed costume and more importantly he appeared with that costume in TAS for years, not to mention many popular videogames. And yet you don't see him wearing his yellow underwear on the outside these days.

[Adam-X]

There are much more recognizable costumes however that have been updated. Cyclops was also in the best-selling comicbook of all time with his Jim Lee-designed costume and more importantly he appeared with that costume in TAS for years, not to mention many popular videogames. And yet you don't see him wearing his yellow underwear on the outside these days.

Pretty much this. I am not saying utterly change her - but there needs to be some change.
Her darker hair (I honestly just thought it was purple being colored dark to match the tone of the book - but I can see now she has black hair) - but her costume and attitude are too much like "Betsy Psylocke" - and if she hopes to become her own thing, they need to make a change. If not in her costume, then in her attitude. The thing with her daughter is a start (I am only on issue 4 or 5 of Hellions so I am not sure if that's gone any further) - but right now, she still reminds me too much of "Betsy Psylocke." I'd like for her to become her own person. A costume shouldn't define a character, but when another character, who looks exactly the same - wore if for over 20 years - you can understand why it's difficult to see her just as "Betsy Psylocke Who Isn't Captain Britain." A good example, when X-23 took on the yellow/black Wolverine costume and the name - she obviously looks nothing like Logan - so when she appears, she doesn't make me think of Logan. She very much feels like her own person.

[CGAR]

There are much more recognizable costumes however that have been updated. Cyclops was also in the best-selling comicbook of all time with his Jim Lee-designed costume and more importantly he appeared with that costume in TAS for years, not to mention many popular videogames. And yet you don't see him wearing his yellow underwear on the outside these days.

I actually brought this up to the editor JDW and he just ignored it.

I will say the one thing that bothers me though is the Kwannon fans saying that all this Psylocke stuff belongs to her.

Like where were statements these last 20 yrs.

No one was saying this on any of the forums at all.

When Betsy was offered back her body 3 other times I didn't see ANYONE being like 'Yes Kwannon can be Psylocke now'.

It's just kind of pretentious the way some talk about it like Betsy wasn't a victim in this as well.

Kwannon had Betsy's body too. And she was doing just fine until Fabian decided to kill her off because of the mistake he made in regards to the body switch.

And I'm fine with them having similar personalities because I'm sure there are many people all over the world with similar personalities.

But they way they are presenting Kwannon is the same as Betsy Psylocke; the only difference is that she has a daughter.

So I'm hoping they give Kwannon more than just what we have so far.

[crimsontt]

And I'm fine with them having similar personalities because I'm sure there are many people all over the world with similar personalities.

.

Yes please, in most of the time we could swap jean by rachel in a story and vice versa without any of them acting out of character. Same for x23 and wolverine.

They both can be the cool, sophisticated warrior. Though I’d have kwannon acting more callous and betsy more warmhearted. Thou inner conflicts seems to affect both of them. They both could fit the swan in a lake archetype, spurier has described betsy: calm on the outside, on a intense turmoil in the inside

[Adam-X]

I will say the one thing that bothers me though is the Kwannon fans saying that all this Psylocke stuff belongs to her.

To be clear - I am not saying it belongs to her. I just associate it to Betsy. Because what I currently see in Kwannon I read as Betsy for over 20 years.
It's like when they did the Spider-Clone stuff - and Peter Parker was Ben Riley or whatever. To me, it was still Peter Parker.
Wasn't until Scarlet Spider got a different costume that I could say it was Scarlet Spider - because the visual aspect had changed - and comics are very much a visual art, just as much as a story telling art.

And I'm fine with them having similar personalities because I'm sure there are many people all over the world with similar personalities.

For sure. But to look exactly like the same person too? I think we call that twins. Or doppelgangers. Or clones.

But they way they are presenting Kwannon is the same as Betsy Psylocke; the only difference is that she has a daughter.
So I'm hoping they give Kwannon more than just what we have so far.

And that's what I hope to see - something to show that Kwannon's personality is different than Betsy's that we saw for 20 years.

[Wiccan]

Their personalities seem very different to me. Kwannon is a classic tortured broody assassin with tragic backstory that has "only" known killing and navigates the world in a sort of dark pragmatic way. Would anyone really describe Betsy like that, even when she was a ninja?

[Rnap22]

I think Wells has done a pretty good job at giving her her own voice. The problem is the costume. At the end of the day it’s a Hand costume. It’s been associated with Betsy, not Kwannon. Even in the flashback to the retcon, Kwannon was in a ninja outfit, not this costume. Betsy was introduced in this costume. If I was a new reader I would be so confused. Marvel did a Psylocke sale on Comixology and of course they’re 99% Betsy stories, but then you had Hellions in that as well. So someone that is new to all this would have no idea who they are reading about.

Psylocke had some good costumes in the past. The Buncanny one is a good one. Hell.. give her the wetsuit one she had on Utopia for a few issues. But at the end of the day, make it her own and not something worn by entirely different character. Even legacy characters have different costumes even if they’re similar.

[Silvermoth]

I'd love to see Kwannon in a look inspired by Pizzicato Five/Maki Nomiya

Attachment 106896
Attachment 106897

Yeah I would love to see a kind of Kumi Koda/Rina Sawayama inspired look and characterisation for Kwannon as well as being a badass ninja.

I think Wells has done a pretty good job at giving her her own voice. The problem is the costume. At the end of the day it’s a Hand costume. It’s been associated with Betsy, not Kwannon. Even in the flashback to the retcon, Kwannon was in a ninja outfit, not this costume. Betsy was introduced in this costume. If I was a new reader I would be so confused. Marvel did a Psylocke sale on Comixology and of course they’re 99% Betsy stories, but then you had Hellions in that as well. So someone that is new to all this would have no idea who they are reading about.

Psylocke had some good costumes in the past. The Buncanny one is a good one. Hell.. give her the wetsuit one she had on Utopia for a few issues. But at the end of the day, make it her own and not something worn by entirely different character. Even legacy characters have different costumes even if they’re similar.

That’s part of the fun though, we really don’t know a whole lot about Kwannon compared to Betsy and now is the time to develop her properly with her own identity

[Adam-X]

Their personalities seem very different to me. Kwannon is a classic tortured broody assassin with tragic backstory that has "only" known killing and navigates the world in a sort of dark pragmatic way. Would anyone really describe Betsy like that, even when she was a ninja?

A backstory is great - but it doesn't matter if it's not being used to tell the current story.

So while that's not Betsy's origin - Betsy certainly moved and acted like a ninja assassin during her time in the body, rather than a proper British woman.

I think that's where the real problem lies.

Everyone else through the Siege Perilous remained the same, character wise.

Betsy changed into an assassin. She wasn't a proper British woman in a ninja's body. She was a ninja. That became Betsy's personality - and now defies how Betsy "was."

[Rnap22]

A backstory is great - but it doesn't matter if it's not being used to tell the current story.

So while that's not Betsy's origin - Betsy certainly moved and acted like a ninja assassin during her time in the body, rather than a proper British woman.

I think that's where the real problem lies.

Everyone else through the Siege Perilous remained the same, character wise.

Betsy changed into an assassin. She wasn't a proper British woman in a ninja's body. She was a ninja. That became Betsy's personality - and now defies how Betsy "was."

Betsy was created that way through brainwashing and false memories (original story arc). She didn’t just go through and get a new personality. Colossus, Dazzler and Havok all didn’t know who they were either. The only one that came out of the Seige Perilous with their memory was Rogue and that’s because it separated the Carol persona from her to give her a new start.

When Kwannon appeared as Revenche (that retcon mess) they were blended into each other as that story goes. So Betsy was somewhat unconsciously influenced by Kwannon’s personality. She took the role of the action junkie and assassin because that’s the person she wanted to be (well not really assassin). Now Betsy is being written as boring British woman. And Kwannon is finally getting fleshed out.