Kwannon: Psylocke II / Revanche Appreciation 2021

[Silvermoth]

By the way, I love that they returned Kwannon’s hair to black. I remember reading an article on nerds of colour about Asian women only being represented with highlights in their hair and what a weird trope that was. Plus it gives Betsy a bit of extra sparkle too

[Psigal]

By the way, I love that they returned Kwannon’s hair to black. I remember reading an article on nerds of colour about Asian women only being represented with highlights in their hair and what a weird trope that was. Plus it gives Betsy a bit of extra sparkle too

I actually have some questions for Kwannon's physicality before the body swap, would be great if someone can answer.

1. When Betsy was in Asian body, she seems to have blue eyes. When Kwannon returned to her body, they remains blue or purple in Hellions. However, Asian should have brown eyes normally. If her hair becomes black again(no more dye), shouldn't her eyes back to brown too(no more eye con)?

2. Betsy is 180cm which is considered tall even for a white woman especially in 70s/80s. However, Kwannon being the same height(180cm) is super tall for an Asian woman(especially Japanese in 70s/80s). Is that really Kwannon's height before the body swap?

3. Does Kwannon look identical to Betsy(their faces)? I asked because there seems to have a time that the X-Men can't tell who is who. Also, it is confusing Betsy Psylocke can look like Asian, white or something in between in the comics.

So, my questions are basically asking did Spiral or the Hand modified their bodies so they have those change above? If it does, it means Kwannon no longer look like her original self before the body swap.

[Psy-lock]

So, my question is did Spiral or the Hand modified their bodies so they have those change above? If it does, it means Kwannon no longer look like her original self before the body swap.

Yes, that's how it was explained in the 90's. Their bodies weren't just swapped, some parts were split between the two (powers, memories, physical traits). The current writers seem to ignore these things and just treat it as a traditional body swap.

[Havok83]

I actually have some questions for Kwannon's physicality before the body swap, would be great if someone can answer.

1. When Betsy was in Asian body, she seems to have blue eyes. When Kwannon returned to her body, they remains blue or purple in Hellions. However, Asian should have brown eyes normally. If her hair becomes black again(no more dye), shouldn't her eyes back to brown too(no more eye con)?

2. Betsy is 180cm which is considered tall even for a white woman especially in 70s/80s. However, Kwannon being the same height(180cm) is super tall for an Asian woman(especially Japanese in 70s/80s). Is that really Kwannon's height before the body swap?

3. Does Kwannon look identical to Betsy(their faces)? I asked because there seems to have a time that the X-Men can't tell who is who. Also, it is confusing Betsy Psylocke can look like Asian, white or something in between in the comics.

So, my questions are basically asking did Spiral or the Hand modified their bodies so they have those change above? If it does, it means Kwannon no longer look like her original self before the body swap.

Eye color is inconsistent. I wouldnt put much thought into that

Betsy and Kwannon look different. I think you are referring to Jean and Xavier not being able to distinguish their psi-signatures and Wolverine not being able to differentiate their scent but physically they clearly looked like different women. Betsy was noted as being Japanese/Asian and Kwannon back then as British/Caucasian

Yes, that's how it was explained in the 90's. Their bodies weren't just swapped, some parts were split between the two (powers, memories, physical traits). The current writers seem to ignore these things and just treat it as a traditional body swap.

or every writer besides Nicieza. The story was a mess and the split/merge/manipulation was his attempt to dig himself out of the hole he created. I dont believe anyone has really used that beyond him

[Psy-lock]

or every writer besides Nicieza. The story was a mess and the split/merge/manipulation was his attempt to dig himself out of the hole he created. I dont believe anyone has really used that beyond him

Some did. In the Psylocke mini by Yoast Betsy's asian body looked almost identical to her caucasian one:

Also on one of the covers for the Sisterhood arc:

[Havok83]

Some did. In the Psylocke mini by Yoast Betsy's asian body looked almost identical to her caucasian one:

Also on one of the covers for the Sisterhood arc:

thats an artist thing, not writers. IIRC, that wasnt referenced in the text by the writers. Alot of the way Betsy was drawn was due to limitations of the artists

[Devaishwarya]

thats an artist thing, not writers. IIRC, that wasnt referenced in the text by the writers. Alot of the way Betsy was drawn was due to limitations of the artists

This cannot be stressed enough.
One of the very few artists who seemed to portray the obvious visual difference post body swap was Marc Silvestri.

[Psy-lock]

thats an artist thing, not writers. IIRC, that wasnt referenced in the text by the writers. Alot of the way Betsy was drawn was due to limitations of the artists

Just because it wasn't referenced in the text doesn't mean the writers/artists weren't aware of it and didn't do it on purpose.

[Havok83]

Just because it wasn't referenced in the text doesn't mean the writers/artists weren't aware of it and didn't do it on purpose.

Sure Im positive most are aware of it but it not being referenced was my point

[Celestialbodies]

So many people don't seem to get this part but beyond that, it is the most drawn costume by fans. The thing people say get rid of is the very popular thing fans like to draw and use. Every time someone says Kwannon needs to be her own thing and change, they overlook her own thing is being "Psylocke" and Psylocke for now is defined as "the Asian period of Betsy Braddock". Now the most difficult part of the equation is that they didn't give Kwannon ownership/memories of that period which would have killed these arguments like this but from an out-of-universe perspective that is what has happened is Kwannon now "owns" most thing associated with the ninja period of Betsy . She does not need her "own" thing Betsy will never be an Asian body again and never will use that archetype in that manner. Kwannon now "owns" the elements that people need to go away.

More importantly, people keep on saying things need to change as if it is some easy task to make a character work. Hypothetically if they change all the stuff what if the character is not popular or it does not work? You have just messed something that worked for no reason and hurt a character who does have a lot of things going for them as yet. If it was so easy to change a code name and look it would happen all the time take Kitty Pryde, Rachel Grey, Jean Grey and many other characters would have a set look and name already. If the character is around long enough she will get a new look and mission statement. And as a smaller character, a redesign is when people will focus on you again so changing Kwannon before that point just steals opportunity for her to get focus. The first time Kwannon changes her look will be a big deal for the character so they should hold that in their pocket until they really need to use it. I think it is two step process

1. Do everything in your power to make the character stick around
2. After the character becomes something people want to consistently see make changes if needed.

I mean absolutely no disrespect but nostalgia isn't a good reason to keep Psylocke in this costume, honestly the switch should have required her and Marvel to shape Kwannon's own destiny rather than depending solely on fans who enjoyed Bets who might stick around. Plus there are much more iconic costumes that her peers have worn yet their allowed to change and grow and even modernize their costumes. Which has been the biggest problem with the Psylocke cvharacter as a whole, Marvel is unwilling to allow her to have any longevity in anything that isn't the leotard. More importantly how is she ever going to have another iconic costume when she's perpetually stuck in a costume for nearly 30 years ago? Kwannon is not Betsy and if they were serious about making her, her own character and not simply cashing in on the character she would be wearing someone that she identifies with not a costume the woman who inhabited her body, used for decades.

[MythicalChicken]

Sure Im positive most are aware of it but it not being referenced was my point

Betsy officially joining the x-men was my very first x-men comic (at the time was just the dawn of the jim lee era so the more I explored the more I was very well rewarded) so she's always had a place in my heart.

I'm 100 percent behind the choice to un-Asian Betsy because it was a legit "problematic" but the more I read of this I wonder if it's being taken too far if we're getting down to the centimeter of eyes.

For story reasons, I think I recall there was a concerted effort, to blend the physical features similar in a way to how Storm was an amalgamation of a lot of features as drawn by Silvestri/others during Claremont era. The intent being to not try to portray her as Asian (just separating them being as Claremont intended originally being the better option).

I suppose in the representation in media arguments there still needs to be some space for artistic license, lest the insistence of "Accurate portrayal" turn into a bloodless attempt to take all the art out of art. At the core of the debate is determining where, figuratively speaking, that line should be drawn.

On that note: count me in on appreciating her hair is black. Wells is making me absolutely adore Kwannon. But getting that specific over eye length and color seems a bit overkill.

[Havok83]

Which has been the biggest problem with the Psylocke cvharacter as a whole, Marvel is unwilling to allow her to have any longevity in anything that isn't the leotard. More importantly how is she ever going to have another iconic costume when she's perpetually stuck in a costume for nearly 30 years ago? Kwannon is not Betsy and if they were serious about making her, her own character and not simply cashing in on the character she would be wearing someone that she identifies with not a costume the woman who inhabited her body, used for decades.

Agreed. Storm's Xmen Red costume is now her default look and her definitive modern costume bc Marvel is committed to it across multiple eras/runs. Betsy needed the same amount of commitment instead of defaulting to going back to that old bathing suit, which they've known thrown on Kwannon

[Psigal]

I mean absolutely no disrespect but nostalgia isn't a good reason to keep Psylocke in this costume, honestly the switch should have required her and Marvel to shape Kwannon's own destiny rather than depending solely on fans who enjoyed Bets who might stick around. Plus there are much more iconic costumes that her peers have worn yet their allowed to change and grow and even modernize their costumes. Which has been the biggest problem with the Psylocke cvharacter as a whole, Marvel is unwilling to allow her to have any longevity in anything that isn't the leotard. More importantly how is she ever going to have another iconic costume when she's perpetually stuck in a costume for nearly 30 years ago? Kwannon is not Betsy and if they were serious about making her, her own character and not simply cashing in on the character she would be wearing someone that she identifies with not a costume the woman who inhabited her body, used for decades.

Agreed. Storm's Xmen Red costume is now her default look and her definitive modern costume bc Marvel is committed to it across multiple eras/runs. Betsy needed the same amount of commitment instead of defaulting to going back to that old bathing suit, which they've known thrown on Kwannon

I actually don't understand the problem of Kwannon wearing the 'bathing suit' because it is supposed to be HER outfit given by Matsu'o to her but not Betsy. Betsy wasn't just wearing her body but also her outfit too. So, when Kwannon has returned to her own body, whats wrong with she wearing her own outfit that was given by her lover(Matsu'o)?

(The bathing suit should either be Kwannon's old clothing or Matsu'o chose for her. I highly doubt Betsy would allow to choose her own clothing because they were trying to control her at that time(to trick her to think she is Kwannon).)

[Havok83]

I actually don't understand the problem of Kwannon wearing the 'bathing suit' because it is supposed to be HER outfit given by Matsu'o to her but not Betsy. Betsy wasn't just wearing her body but also her outfit too. So, when Kwannon has returned to her own body, whats wrong with she wearing her own outfit that was given her lover(Matsu'o)?

Its dated. I generally am not a fan of characters wearing old looks from over 3 decades ago

[Psigal]

Its dated. I generally am not a fan of characters wearing old looks from over 3 decades ago

I am sure she will have new look. But there is no problem for her to wear it as she has just returned to her own body and the bathing suit is supposed to be her own outfit(but not Betsy's).

People need to get familiar with this character first because Psylocke without her purple hair and bathing suit. She just looks like a typical Japanese Ninja and isn't that special.