Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2021

[Psigal]

She doesnt show better strength compared to the other members and Betsy had the most ridiculous fight with Isca and "died".
Most of her psi-attack failed (lol). It's so unmemorable as if it was non existant. Even mindcontrolling Brian and ranged psi daggers was not done by her (probably Morgan LaFey in her body)



Her power feats is just one aspects that's been degraded for Betsy. We also have issues with characterizations, dialogues and imbalances for the characters in the book. She loses her confidence, and being stripped away from what made her awesome. There are things we love about pre-ninja Brit Betsy and there are things we love about Ninja Betsy (be it tp/tk or both). CB Betsy just hasn't been that exciting and so far, I haven't fall in love with her.

Look guys, I don't hate this new Betsy and have been trying to keep being positive and keep reading/buying Excalibur.
I'm glad Apoc is out of the way now, so the book can focus more on her and the team. I also love the Braddocks dynamics in the book.
But there are issues and things that need to be addressed in the book especially regarding to our Betsy.

I think those are more than half of Betsy fans concern over the first 15 issue of Excalibur. She just failed so HARD in it.

But it is sad to see one or two fans being over protective so Marvel can just get away with it.

When you talk about Betsy's Ninja skill, they said she should move on and CB skill is much more powerful so she don't need to use ninja skill.

When you talk about Betsy's CB skill isn't shown much and not impressive up to now(many actually wonder if she has CB power beside flying). They said the character isn't just about power.

When you talk about Betsy's characterization is just bad and there is almost no development. They said it takes time for it but Excalibur has already launched over 1 year now and there are over 15 issues. Also, look at Hellion which Kwannon is in it, she is already her own character and a better one than Betsy after the first 5 issues.

How about stop finding excuse and accept the truth(bad characterization and development on Betsy) so Marvel and the writer may know the problem and deal with it?

[LoganAlpha30X33]

You have to wonder if Marvel cares what the fans think about Betsy right now, and Marvel might not see how Betsy is written in Excalibur as a problem right now...

[Ferro]

She doesnt show better strength compared to the other members and Betsy had the most ridiculous fight with Isca and "died".
Most of her psi-attack failed (lol). It's so unmemorable as if it was non existant. Even mindcontrolling Brian and ranged psi daggers was not done by her (probably Morgan LaFey in her body)



Her power feats is just one aspects that's been degraded for Betsy. We also have issues with characterizations, dialogues and imbalances for the characters in the book. She loses her confidence, and being stripped away from what made her awesome. There are things we love about pre-ninja Brit Betsy and there are things we love about Ninja Betsy (be it tp/tk or both). CB Betsy just hasn't been that exciting and so far, I haven't fall in love with her.

Look guys, I don't hate this new Betsy and have been trying to keep being positive and keep reading/buying Excalibur.
I'm glad Apoc is out of the way now, so the book can focus more on her and the team. I also love the Braddocks dynamics in the book.
But there are issues and things that need to be addressed in the book especially regarding to our Betsy.

then save yourself whatever currency you're spending on the book ?
or we can continue to changing the goal posts on your end, don't know what else to say LOL, because aparently you say there's no feat X, but there is said feat displayed on page y, but by some arbitrary made up set of rules, it doesnt actually count lmao.

She was clearly sabotaged by saturnyne so that's a moot point, she has been the tank of several atacks troughout the series using her own body to push/hold her telekinetic shield, she has been using psychic daggers since issue 6 where she trows one over jaimes head into his throne as a warning, and some more in issue 13 when she duels brian in the starlight citatel.

She just literaly just knocked down a guard on her way to the otherworld gate with a psychic atack, and whoever's possesing that body has her powers/skills, same as betsy gained kwannon's skills when she was in that body.

It sure isnt perfect but it much easier to discuss improvements if the book was being discussed in good faith.

[Ferro]

I think those are more than half of Betsy fans concern over the first 15 issue of Excalibur. She just failed so HARD in it.

But it is sad to see one or two fans being over protective so Marvel can just get away with it.

When you talk about Betsy's Ninja skill, they said she should move on and CB skill is much more powerful so she don't need to use ninja skill.

When you talk about Betsy's CB skill isn't shown much and not impressive up to now(many actually wonder if she has CB power beside flying). They said the character isn't just about power.

When you talk about Betsy's characterization is just bad and there is almost no development. They said it takes time for it but Excalibur has already launched over 1 year now and there are over 15 issues. Also, look at Hellion which Kwannon is in it, she is already her own character and a better one than Betsy after the first 5 issues.

How about stop finding excuse and accept the truth(bad characterization and development on Betsy) so Marvel and the writer may know the problem and deal with it?

See both can play at this game.
Im an 80's Betsy fan, I only started to care about her after I read and reread her 70's-80's stories.

I never gave a single shred of a rat's ass about her ninja skills, I think it's the worst thing to ever happen to her character, it harbored 20 years or so of terrible stories (until the 2010's brought some light at the end of the tunnel and eventhen uncanny xforce crying in the battub betsy is saaaaaaaaad)
She went from an team leader, most skilled field telepath on the x-men, to summoning a shitty butter knife and getting her ass handed to her 9 ways to sunday every other issue, her biggest victory in that era was on the astral plane without any ninja stupidity.

She went from defeating sabertooth in a dress to getting murdered by him in spandex with "NINJA SKILLS".
So whatever nostalgia you harbor I do not share, I don't care about the katana or backflips, I prefered the hybrid psychic and weapon creation so I have been more than served ever since the body restauration, but this is to showcasse your opinion isnt in any way unanimous.

But on an semi objective point as I very much never pretended the series is perfect or howard's writting, in the big picture sense of betsy's publication that I have read enough off to say:
The truth is this current run is AT WORST mediocre, mediocricity that isnt character destructive or causes any long lasting damage to her character, when it comes to comics that are usualy bellow average, it isn't worth crying over because guess what! Betsy getting gutted by everyother dude that crossed pages with her, losing any and all consistent characterization, THAT was harming, and she survived decades of being a sexy capcom ninja in the background and covers.
So she will endure this, she endured Exiles, at that point this "concern" is unfounded.

And your opinions are just that, opinions, to me and others that dont bother or even know this forum exists, Excalibur 13 forward has had better betsy braddock writing than 96 % of the 90's and 00's that wasnt sword of the braddocks and dark angel saga uncanny x-force, but if you disagree there's no point in arguing, there's no point in sticking around either and pass your opinions as facts, when they just.. aren't!

so lets call a spade a spade, this is just empty negativity.
its very clear the traits you enjoyed about her were traits that were canonicaly shoved into her by stupid story decisions by claremont and even worse communication skills at the editorial sense that lead to the body switch storyline, and in-universe: by actual body horror and brainwashing of the worst kind.

Just ENJOY kwannon, because its beyond clear thats what you want.

there is no issue with admiting that, because passing opinions as facts to create a melodramatic narrative that betsy is being ruined it's just not a good argument!
If kwannon is so much better, you can just go to where the sexy ninja is, zeb wells deserves every shred of support!

[Yronheart]

In all honesty I think its pretty shady how dismissive you are of other people's opinions. Just because you're happy with Captain Snore doesn't mean everyone else needs to put up and shut up.

Clearly the fanbase has suffered a bad split by the recent direction that Marvel has taken, and this split did NOT occur when she returned to her og body. Most of us were pretty buzzed with Disassembled Psylocke.

[Devaishwarya]

While I loved Ninja-Betsynnon, I'm glad they've been separated and each is back fully in her "original" body. Would I love more of psycho-blasting-illusion-casting-pre-body-swap Betsy? Yupp, indeed. But...this CB Betsy is not that one, in fact one can argue that she's probably closer to the character Claremont and Davis wrote while standing in as CB for her brother before she joined the X-Men. (There is precedent).

For all intents and purposes this is a new character being written in a new setting by a new writer with different intentions and direction for the character. This is not the Betsy of pre-Siege Perilous/Outback days...and I do think that that's very intentional. Some may not like it, (I actually do, very muchly, as I never fully understood wanting a favourite character to be regressed/stuck in a past iteration) but it is what it is and is not likely to change anytime soon.

[Psycwave]

In all honesty I think its pretty shady how dismissive you are of other people's opinions. Just because you're happy with Captain Snore doesn't mean everyone else needs to put up and shut up.

Clearly the fanbase has suffered a bad split by the recent direction that Marvel has taken, and this split did NOT occur when she returned to her og body. Most of us were pretty buzzed with Disassembled Psylocke.

The split definitely started when she went back to the og body. To this day you still have people who feel the need to tell you how “I’m not loving Betsy but i am loving Kwannon” as if there was some rule you can’t enjoy both. This thread was full of arguments of folks upset that she wasn’t in the Asian body anymore and the disassembled was trashed cause it didn’t delve into the switch and only started garnering a good POV after AoXM. Which...X-tremists was definitely the worst characterization of Betsy we’ve ever had.

[Psycwave]

Her power feats is just one aspects that's been degraded for Betsy. We also have issues with characterizations, dialogues and imbalances for the characters in the book. She loses her confidence, and being stripped away from what made her awesome. There are things we love about pre-ninja Brit Betsy and there are things we love about Ninja Betsy (be it tp/tk or both). CB Betsy just hasn't been that exciting and so far, I haven't fall in love with her.

Look guys, I don't hate this new Betsy and have been trying to keep being positive and keep reading/buying Excalibur.
I'm glad Apoc is out of the way now, so the book can focus more on her and the team. I also love the Braddocks dynamics in the book.
But there are issues and things that need to be addressed in the book especially regarding to our Betsy.

The story may not be perfect but again I can't contribute a loss of confidence to some huge character assassinating moment for Betsy. Especially when it's a major plot point of the book that characters are bringing up. Betsy is NOT acting like herself and that's the point and the book isn't ending tomorrow.

Rogue and them I don't care so much about though. They can all dip, tbh.

[MentalManipulator]

I'm kind of in the middle:

I really think bringing Kwannon back and making her and Betsy separate and their own characters was the smartest decision.

I'm a huge fan of pre body swap Betsy so I don't need her to be a Ninja. I just don't love her forever being CB because I think is a less and more limiting role for her as part of other X-Men teams.

I was loving her in Disassembled. The design, the power set. I wish she got to keep the sword, shield, strong TP, butterfly effect and some fighting skills.

I love Kwannon being the stealthy dark ninja with the psychic knife.

But I'm giving Tini a chance and I am very eager to see where this all goes.

[Ferro]

The story may not be perfect but again I can't contribute a loss of confidence to some huge character assassinating moment for Betsy. Especially when it's a major plot point of the book that characters are bringing up. Betsy is NOT acting like herself and that's the point and the book isn't ending tomorrow.

Rogue and them I don't care so much about though. They can all dip, tbh.

yeah its a story but aparently no matter how easy it is to understand it, that betsy "isnt herself" when the moment she enconters a kwannon some of those traits return to her, like it IS a plot point

[Psigal]

The main issue is we see only regression instead progression through out the first 15 issue of Excalibur and things don't get any better up to now. Even the last few issues are about Kwannon again so it is Marvel and writer can't move on but not us.

And it is not like we are really eager to see Betsy being the ninja Psylocke again(and we know she won't). Look at Disassembled Betsy, she is perfect! She maintains previous fighting skill from her Asian body but changed the style by using sword and shield as she has returned to her british body, this is the development that we wanted(they can do the same thing with her current skills and CB power). Also, her telepathy continued to develop and has great interaction between other X-Men. One of the reason we don't like Captain Britain Betsy because we can't see Disassembled Betsy again.

However, we all do give CB Betsy a chance when Excalibur began but it is ridiculously disappointing that the whole story is like the character assassination of Betsy Braddock(her leadership, her skill and power, her characterization are so bad...). I agreed it is like she has returned to the status of the time before joining the X-Men and started from 0. The regression of Betsy is so great that it is very much the writer's fault without understanding the character before writing her. But I would remain hopeful(as I see it has improved since issue 16) and see if the last two issues can change my mind.

[Psigal]

yeah its a story but aparently no matter how easy it is to understand it, that betsy "isnt herself" when the moment she enconters a kwannon some of those traits return to her, like it IS a plot point

I don't see this does make any sense that she needs to see Kwannon for her traits to return? She forgot about those traits? She needs Kwannon to remind her? She don't want to use them until she saw Kwannon using them? They are like very basic combat and telepathy skills, I don't see any plot in it.

But I have a better explanation is that the writer found she has shown none of those in the previous issues and fans are complaining so she is 'reminded' to add them in the last few issues.

[Psycwave]

The main issue is we see only regression instead progression through out the first 15 issue of Excalibur and things don't get any better up to now. Even the last few issues are about Kwannon again so it is Marvel and writer can't move on but not us.

And it is not like we are really eager to see Betsy being the ninja Psylocke again(and we know she won't). Look at Disassembled Betsy, she is perfect! She maintains previous fighting skill from her Asian body but changed the style by using sword and shield as she has returned to her british body, this is the development that we wanted(they can do the same thing with her current skills and CB power). Also, her telepathy continued to develop and has great interaction between other X-Men. One of the reason we don't like Captain Britain Betsy because we can't see Disassembled Betsy again.

However, we all do give CB Betsy a chance when Excalibur began but it is ridiculously disappointing that the whole story is like the character assassination of Betsy Braddock(her leadership, her skill and power, her characterization are so bad...). I agreed it is like she has returned to the status of the time before joining the X-Men and started from 0. The regression of Betsy is so great that it is very much the writer's fault without understanding the character before writing her. But I would remain hopeful(as I see it has improved since issue 16) and see if the last two issues can change my mind.

Immortal Hulk has had Bruce dealing with the ptsd from his father for the last 40 something odd issues and he's still dealing with them. The fact that we're not even 20 issues in and we see the next part of her journey forming seems pretty normal to me. Maybe you're just used to Betsy getting one arc and then moving on to the next?

Disassembled was nothing for Betsy's character arc though. It was a dope moment but that's all it was. A moment.

I don't see this does make any sense that she needs to see Kwannon for her traits to return? She forgot about those traits? She needs Kwannon to remind her? She don't want to use them until she saw Kwannon using them? They are like very basic combat and telepathy skills, I don't see any plot in it.

But I have a better explanation is that the writer found she has shown none of those in the previous issues and fans are complaining so she is 'reminded' to add them in the last few issues.

I believe it has more to do with she finds herself back in a comfortable spot. Spook work. Fighting people. Being secretive. Things she was trying to go against as CB. Once she got into a spot where being CB didn't matter all the bad habits started coming back.

I think you're giving the "fans" too much power.

[CGAR]

I recommend some of you listening to the CEREBRO podcast on Spotify.

I think the Betsy Braddock and Saturnyne episodes.

I say this because I have had my critiques of Tini Howards writing style.

But I think if you guys listen to her talk about Betsy Braddock you will have a little more appreciation for what she is trying to do.

I may not agree with the execution but I have an appreciation for it.

[MentalManipulator]

I recommend some of you listening to the CEREBRO podcast on Spotify.

I think the Betsy Braddock and Saturnyne episodes.

I say this because I have had my critiques of Tini Howards writing style.

But I think if you guys listen to her talk about Betsy Braddock you will have a little more appreciation for what she is trying to do.

I may not agree with the execution but I have an appreciation for it.

I agree and second that. Listening to those episodes is the main reason I still feel optimist she will eventually lead the character in a satisfying direction while building something new.