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  1. #106
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    Why then wouldn't Lee have found it offensive, it's not the same but Warren has been blue for the most part for about the same amount of time...

  2. #107
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Why then wouldn't Lee have found it offensive, it's not the same but Warren has been blue for the most part for about the same amount of time...
    Blue is not a real skin color and his race did not change. Its not the same thing. Had Betsy simply gained blue skin, it would not be problematic on a racial level, which is what the yellowface was

  3. #108
    Fantastic Member Selene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    You're like actively turning a blind eye to the issue because you, as a white man, don't think that it's wrong.

    You definitely wouldn't like if Warren or Alex were put into an Asian, African-American or Native American body.
    That is a ridiculous thing to say and you don't need to make a point by calling someone you disagree with a 'white man'; would you rather get called out on your American-centric prejudice, because you don't consider the mind of a Caucasian transferred to the body of an Asian in a superhero comic book 'acceptable'?

    I'd rather join Thundershot's trail of thought and say that you either like a story or don't.

    If anything, it's the current status quo that doesn't make any sense to me, where Betsy is happy to be in her birth body, but is radically cut off from all her previous storylines and Kwannon is happy to spite Betsy and adopt all of her traditional imagery at the same time.

  4. #109
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    A white woman in an Asian woman's body is just wacky comic book stuff as far as I'm concerned

  5. #110
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    A white woman in an Asian woman's body is just wacky comic book stuff as far as I'm concerned
    Racebending is the next big taboo, innit.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Racebending is the next big taboo, innit.
    Yellow face has always been controversial, it's just it wasn't until recently the people who didn't like it haven't had the power to stop it and the X-men got away with it for so long in the comics because very few people knew about that. As well as the comics normalising Betsy's situation rather then being self aware of the problematic aspects. They couldn't have gotten away with that in the 2000's, it's why whenever Betsy is cast in live action it's with an actress with Asian heritage. Race bending is controversial but not for the same reasons as Betsy was. It's about people not liking non-white people having representation when their characters are reimagined since this isn't the 60's where everyone had to be white.

  7. #112
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Regardless of what race she is, Betsy was transplanted into a body that wasn’t hers. That would be traumatic for anyone. Black. White. Asian. Male. Female. It was said on panel that they couldn’t have a westerner running the Hong Kong underworld. The only issue I had was we didn’t get much of a reaction from her reflecting on what had been done to her. She just accepted it and moved on as if it were no big deal. When Abe Jenkins was turned black they actually dealt with it. Ditto for Walter Langkowski being female. Betsy never got that... at least not that I ever saw.

    Anyway... just making a new Asian character wouldn’t have created the story that was put in place. It was about one of the X-men being turned against them, and her road back to being an X-men again. All for the story. Which, again.. you can enjoy it or you can not.

    0575C0F2-8805-4EB1-871A-9E500A7F73D6.jpg

  8. #113
    Astonishing Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    That is a ridiculous thing to say and you don't need to make a point by calling someone you disagree with a 'white man'; would you rather get called out on your American-centric prejudice, because you don't consider the mind of a Caucasian transferred to the body of an Asian in a superhero comic book 'acceptable'?

    I'd rather join Thundershot's trail of thought and say that you either like a story or don't.

    If anything, it's the current status quo that doesn't make any sense to me, where Betsy is happy to be in her birth body, but is radically cut off from all her previous storylines and Kwannon is happy to spite Betsy and adopt all of her traditional imagery at the same time.
    What are you even talking about. And how ignorant is it to not think a white persons perspective would be different from a Latinos or an Asian or African American.

    Also yeah. If you’re offended that I’d rather not have a white person in the body of an Asian person than that’s something you need to deal with. There’s a reason why it’s been a hot topic. And if you don’t get that. I really don’t know what to say to you. So yes call me out for that. That’s like saying you’re fine with a white man being put in a Native Americans body.

    How do you not see an issue with that?

    It’s about acknowledgment. Yeah you can enjoy a quirky race bending story if you want. But let’s not act like like it’s not an issue just because YOU think its ok.

    Betsy isn’t Asian. And let me be PC. Betsy isn’t Japanese or Chinese.

    Some of you choose to not see why it’s an issue. So moving on.

    Kwannon is being written better than Betsy right now anyways.

    So good for her.
    Last edited by CGAR; 01-20-2021 at 07:57 AM.

  9. #114
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Tini's betsy has been mostly not on the focus, but I enjoyed excalibur 13 and the latest issue so im positive, I won't convince anyone else anyways just sharing my opinion

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Blue is not a real skin color and his race did not change. Its not the same thing. Had Betsy simply gained blue skin, it would not be problematic on a racial level, which is what the yellowface was
    Notice I said that it's not the same in my short post, just saying that it was similar in that they were both changed in a way that they couldn't just cover up 24/7 and hope that no one would notice...and back then I don't remember Betsy identifying herself as an Asian character but as British in an Asian body, so far in Excalibur Betsy's been a visitor in a book that she's supposed to be leading...

  11. #116
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    I’d be interested in seeing how her CB powers have changed, if at all. She destroyed the amulet and she took up the Starlight sword. Is the sword a physical sword or is it magic and mental and drawn when she wants it? I would like to see these changes explored sooner rather than later. I wouldn’t mind her learning some magic from Magik if she’s going to be in Otherworld often. It couldn’t hurt.

  12. #117
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    Sadly I think that you may be waiting for a good long while for everything to be explained, the writer seems to like to plant seeds of ideas for Betsy and the other characters, and then things just stop there...

  13. #118
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    thats just not true anymore this lattest issue basicaly reaffirmed everything she has been setting up as to mutant magic and conection to avalon.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Regardless of what race she is, Betsy was transplanted into a body that wasn’t hers. That would be traumatic for anyone. Black. White. Asian. Male. Female. It was said on panel that they couldn’t have a westerner running the Hong Kong underworld. The only issue I had was we didn’t get much of a reaction from her reflecting on what had been done to her. She just accepted it and moved on as if it were no big deal. When Abe Jenkins was turned black they actually dealt with it. Ditto for Walter Langkowski being female. Betsy never got that... at least not that I ever saw.
    Agreed. Was Betsy ever given a storyline where she explored how her perspective wasn't he's as when she was white? All the numerous stories I read about, post-change, would be exactly the same if she was white. In many cases she was drawn like she was white.

    Anyway... just making a new Asian character wouldn’t have created the story that was put in place. It was about one of the X-men being turned against them, and her road back to being an X-men again. All for the story. Which, again.. you can enjoy it or you can not.

    0575C0F2-8805-4EB1-871A-9E500A7F73D6.jpg
    They could do the same storyline, except take away her changing race because why would that be a barrier? She was a super warrior before being brainwashed and the Mandarin isn't picky about what race his assassins are. The X-men knowing who she is would be even better since they'd hold back, like they did with Warren. It's not like the X-men haven't had white members being in Asia before, Logan's been doing that since the 80's. Nobody tried to make look Asian, all they did was give an eyepatch.

  15. #120
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    They should just make MCU Betsy biracial with a Japanese mum. And Kwannon can be introduced later as her cousin or half-sister (to explain the same-looking powers).

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