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  1. #166
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimsontt View Post
    I don’t agree that England’s plurality is solely expressed by indian/pakistanese descendants.
    a fair point you're right, just the first example that came to my head in possible actresses.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    have you noticed how none of those characters are main characters or have their own movies? A black writer was kicked out of the new superman show because she criticized their lack of black characters and how most were villains.
    and black lightning is ending so that's another moot point, I don't care Iris is black but after some thinking I care more that the vixen doesnt have a movie, same for cyborg. If they had movies where they were clearly the main characters theyd be in comics and games and animation from that point forward, hence ELEVATING an already diverse character to permenant exposure.
    That's a seperate subject, making Betsy white won't make those characters from the comics get their own projects. Black lightning went on for numerous seasons, and so did Luke cage and why is that nothing? Those are crucially acclaimed tv shows adapting black characters - something in theory you should be happy about but you're not? How they are not wins for diversity? Also erasing the representation of Iris and her family on Flash as well as the various POC characters in those media - who were progressive wins for representation. I'd love for Vixen to have her own tv show, though she did get an animated web series, but how is her not being in Legends supporting cast not a win for what you're wanting? Her character became a fan favourite. Instead they should have just not bothered having her in anything unless she's the lead, therefore taking away one of the POC characters from the comics because? Somehow this adds to diversity, when all it does is do the opposite. Have you watched those Marvel and DC tv shows and movies?

    Making betsy asian just to return to comics and games to see that ACTUALLY she was a white woman shoved into an asian body because claremont has one trick, and jim lee is a style over substance creator, it's the definition of counter productive.
    Jim Lee retconned that IIRC. You need to read more Claremont if you think that's all he's capable of as a writer. There's a reason he's a legend in X-men comics. He defined the concept more than Stan and Jack did. The problematic retcon in the comics and hiring an Asian actress in live action are not the same things.

    And when it comes to betsy none of those adaptations were in any way accurate to her personality, they weren't a british women that had seen the world, neither versions were EVEN clearly telepathic, hell the movie director on apocalypse DIDNT EVEN KNOW BETSY HAD A TWIN, olivia munn had to inform him.
    Using two apearences with 5 seconds of dialogue to prove your point makes no sense.
    They weren't betsy, they were the Psylocke that got popular by capcom, you could give them any first and second name and it be the same, such a clean slate indeed that's not even an adaptation.
    It's adapting psylocke, not betsy braddock.
    Semantics, Betsy Braddock is Psylocke. The fact they were badly written does not prove anything, hiring white ladies rather than Asian actress for the part won't make them any less Betsy but it will take away part of the diversity in those movies. They're adaptions of Psylocke/Betsy, you have to live with that. Maybe when the MCU does this we'll finally get a good adaption for once.

    If you have a headcanon pass it as such, don't try to impose and try to create this narrative people that disagree with you are agaist diversity, stop deflecting the point and twisting other's words, if you don't want more white people in the x-men movies, that's fine.
    Advocate for characters that can actually use the push and are genuinly rooted on that origin since their creation, not betsy, who already has decades of history to rely on.
    The argument being presented is that making the characters from the comics back to their roots as white somehow is better, of course I'd be irritated by that stance if I want more diversity. I'm not twisting anything, that's what I'm arguing against. It's baffling. Except you've written off those very same characters paragraphs above, anyway? Black Lighting doesn't count because his show ends? Vixen being in a tv show as a popular supporting cast member in legends means nothing. Legends also had Zari and her brother, who are original characters that are POC Muslim popular supporting characters. But they don't count for diversity? Except "push" with this argument means they have to be the leads, and even the they are leads if their show is eventually cancelled they don't mean anything.

    you know who can use a push? sunfire and his sister, karma, sway, jubilee, kwannon. THAT'S a true win for progress because people that fall for those movie adaptations will have an entire history of books and animation and games to find out, and then more in the future.
    Except you haven't proven why Betsy being white helps this come to pass. Again, zero sum. Creators and companies will push them, or not, for various reasons and none fo them stop because Betsy's in the MCU. Betsy was in the Fox movies twice and Jubilee still appeared in the same franchise. We also got Domino, Negasonic, Blind Al (she was white in the comics, black in the movies) and Yukio in the Deadpool movies as well as Laura, Mariko, Harada and Shingen in the Wolverine movies. That's not even going into the diverse casting and POC leads in the MCU's current phase both in movies and Disney+.

    Then you do that with betsy, then everyone finds out she was casted and her brother as asian to apease the fans of a racist and problematic story, so why in the hell is it productive to make sure that version of the character is adapted? And why drag brian and jaime into it?
    And if you truly want to represent brittain, indian/pakistani bi-racial british actors are the way to go, but you can't put naomi scott betsy braddock in a psylocke bathing suit with katana, can you?
    Nobody is saying they should adapt the racist story from the comics, just hire Asian or half-Asian actors, like that have done in the past. How is it productive for diversity to keep Betsy white? Because they're from the same family and they're blood relatives? How is having more Asian actors in X-men media bad? Sure you can, except how is making Betsy Indian different from what I'm saying? You've just switched the ethnicities around and now it's good? I'd love for Naomi to be in the MCU! And they don't need to put Betsy in a bathing suit or make her a ninja. I'm at a loss about why Indian/Pakistani actors are a better choice other than because personal opinion? That'd be fine but how did you get to that conclusion while throwing out Asian actors for those roles and an insistence about keeping white characters white. Making Betsy and her family POC of any race would be welcome, they don't need to be Asian to add diversity, they just don't have to be white - the choices aren't

  3. #168
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Good for you, or, sorry that happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    Captain Jubilee is dead now, right?
    yes jaime killed her, rogue was also harmed, coven akkaba may have latter version of information, not sure if it lines up chronologically but maybe they caught a glimpse into otherworld as they sacrificed that one acolyte, the ceremony that meggan spied
    Last edited by Ferro; 01-24-2021 at 03:29 AM.

  4. #169
    Hi, Sage. nandes's Avatar
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    Race bending in movies helps ""diversity"" in the movies themselves but doesn't actually change anything in comics. At the end of the day the same white characters are the ones getting the push. Bringing actual POC from the comics to the forefront in other media should be much more constructive.

    Betsy Braddock as an asian ninja is a mess that readers of japanese descent like me are tired of. The MCU already has a terrible history with Wanda, race bending Mary Jane and then never confirming Zendaya is playing her to escape the rage of the nerds, having Peter steal Miles' supporting cast, etc. though so it actually wouldn't surprise me if they pulled that mess again.
    Last edited by nandes; 01-24-2021 at 07:58 AM.

  5. #170
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post

    Were you against Chloe Bennet being cast as Daisy Johnson in Agents of SHIELD? Quake was white in the comics. That didn't stop the show bringing POC characters into the show, like Antoine Triplett.

    Betsy being Asian in other media doesn't stop Kwannon being there, the fact this gets ignored is annoying. This isn't the comics, and even that separated the two eventually but live action media? Now we only have access to a single Asian actress for either Betsy or Kwannon. It's ridiculous.
    To be fair she is racially ambigious. She can pass for being Caucasian and I thought she was until her Asian heritage was written into the show with the second season

  6. #171
    Astonishing Member CGAR's Avatar
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    She looks so good with the psyknife.

    6C658C28-8D0B-4750-8395-CAFD546248C6.jpg

  7. #172
    Incredible Member MetalPsyc's Avatar
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    I don't care if Betsy is white or half white/asian (like Munn) in MCU.

    Psylocke must be Betsy Braddock. The Psylocke I know is a telepathic British with ninja skills. I don't want Marvel to take that away.
    There's also nothing wrong with a caucasian telepath british who's also excellent in the art of ninjutsu.

    We don't need Kwannon in the MCU.
    Or maybe a separate character related to the Japanese warlords, not the Mandarin. A younger Japanese female empath. Initially a villain, but then become Betsy's protege.

    If ever they want Kwannon to take the Psylocke mantle, it'll have to be in a very long term. Similar but not the same as in the comics, with Betsy passing down the mantle of Psylocke to Kwannon.

  8. #173
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Make Betsy and Kwannon a part of STRIKE, and have them be co-workers. That way we get Asian ninja, and British white at the same time. Cast Devon Aoki as Kwannon, and Emily Blunt as Betsy.

  9. #174
    Astonishing Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Agreed they should both be on a team with Brian Braddock.

    Wasn’t STRIKE just the British version of SHEILD that had a psy division??

    What better way to introduce both characters.

    They can both have focus away from the X-men.

    And when they finally have an event movie.

    They can interact with the rest of whatever mutant teams there are in the MCU.

  10. #175
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    Agreed they should both be on a team with Brian Braddock.

    Wasn’t STRIKE just the British version of SHEILD that had a psy division??

    What better way to introduce both characters.

    They can both have focus away from the X-men.

    And when they finally have an event movie.

    They can interact with the rest of whatever mutant teams there are in the MCU.
    It was. STRIKE is SHIELD, but British, and both had PSI-divisions. I much rather see spy organizations like SHIELD, STRIKE, Dept. H, the Red Room, etc. remain independent of each other, rather than SHIELD just be an arm of the UN. Especially with international tensions being at such a boiling point right now.

  11. #176
    Amazing Member Oheao's Avatar
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    New year, yet same desires: make Betsy Psylocke again, she was Psylocke before the swap and it makes no sense why Kwannon would continue to use a name when people constantly mistake her for Betsy.

  12. #177
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oheao View Post
    New year, yet same desires: make Betsy Psylocke again, she was Psylocke before the swap and it makes no sense why Kwannon would continue to use a name when people constantly mistake her for Betsy.
    Who mistakes her for Betsy? Its pretty clear in the books that she appears in (primarily Hellions), that she isnt Betsy

  13. #178
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    yeah the black hair and black and red costume are very much kwannon, they only seem to allow purple hair and butterfly signature in variant covers or stuff based solely on aesthetics
    (Demon days psylocke looks more like betsy cosplaying than kwannon LOL)

  14. #179
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    I wish Marvel would bring Clay Mann back into the X-books, and draw Excalibur. To makes everyone look like a child.

  15. #180
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    To is an amazing artist and his art has been the only good thing about that book. Seriously Excalibur is one of the better looking book on the line and its a shame that the writing doesnt match the art quality

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