Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2021

[Psycwave]

I was hoping for something more explicit, this issue was okayish I guess but It was still a lot of talking without anything being said...anyway...it's just may opinion... I imagine others enjoyed it so good for them.

Tini's writing style tends to lean itself a lot towards letting the reader make their own conclusions. I'm sure the whole "losing part of yourself" mixed with Malice-Betsy and the wayward Betsy of this issue are all commentary on how she's lacked everything but she there's still a chance she may just come out and say it later.

I thought the issue was nice but it did feel a bit more like a Kwannon spotlight than a Betsy one, imo. Nice moment between them but i'd like to have Betsy lead the conversations instead of just reacting.

[Ferro]

Tini's writing style tends to lean itself a lot towards letting the reader make their own conclusions. I'm sure the whole "losing part of yourself" mixed with Malice-Betsy and the wayward Betsy of this issue are all commentary on how she's lacked everything but she there's still a chance she may just come out and say it later.

I thought the issue was nice but it did feel a bit more like a Kwannon spotlight than a Betsy one, imo. Nice moment between them but i'd like to have Betsy lead the conversations instead of just reacting.

for what it was, wiich was betsy's rock bottom + kwannon's meeting, to me it marked all the checkmarks, the moment she was put in her body once more with the sword it was breaktrough in their mutual understanding, it was something we waited for but it was worth it to me.

Also i chose to count the alternate betsy's as extensions of betsy, (i mean even kwannon says they are her), each embodying an aspect of betsy but witout all ... the mess.

[Uncanny X-Man]

Tini's writing style tends to lean itself a lot towards letting the reader make their own conclusions. I'm sure the whole "losing part of yourself" mixed with Malice-Betsy and the wayward Betsy of this issue are all commentary on how she's lacked everything but she there's still a chance she may just come out and say it later.

I thought the issue was nice but it did feel a bit more like a Kwannon spotlight than a Betsy one, imo. Nice moment between them but i'd like to have Betsy lead the conversations instead of just reacting.

That was my biggest gripe with the issue as well. And I quite enjoyed it, it was probably one of the best in the whole DoX/RoX run and was also a very nice showing of Marcus To's art.

But all of Howard's run Betsy has been lashing out at people, being stubborn and generally unlikeable, and that's absolutely in her character but you also need your readers to connect with your characters and Tini is failing spectacularly at that. So much so you come off this issue liking and understanding Kwannon but with a big question mark on Betsy: what motivates her, why is she reacting the way she is in this issue?

Relying on the readers being familiar with the characters history and making vague references just didn't work for me here, I think a good flashback scene going over what happened between Kwannon and Betsy would have gone a long way towards fleshing out both women's attitude and motivations instead of just making vague references to a shared past.

[Daedra]

for what it was, wiich was betsy's rock bottom + kwannon's meeting, to me it marked all the checkmarks, the moment she was put in her body once more with the sword it was breaktrough in their mutual understanding, it was something we waited for but it was worth it to me.

Also i chose to count the alternate betsy's as extensions of betsy, (i mean even kwannon says they are her), each embodying an aspect of betsy but witout all ... the mess.

Tini's writing style tends to lean itself a lot towards letting the reader make their own conclusions. I'm sure the whole "losing part of yourself" mixed with Malice-Betsy and the wayward Betsy of this issue are all commentary on how she's lacked everything but she there's still a chance she may just come out and say it later.

I thought the issue was nice but it did feel a bit more like a Kwannon spotlight than a Betsy one, imo. Nice moment between them but i'd like to have Betsy lead the conversations instead of just reacting.

Comic book hardships usually are supposed to make or break a character, I wanted Betsy to get her groove back, to gain some new awareness about who she is or how she feels but as a reader I have to say I just felt her absence, she’s so impalpable to me, I’m not really sure I can say she leaned any new lesson or evolved in any way..... I can see stuff is happening to her but it’s all very removed, almost like she isn’t experiencing her own life really but being blindly dragged around as the plot progresses, I can’t quite put my finger in it......I’m unsatisfied about the details or lack of details in the storytelling, I’m left wanting but not in a good way.

[Psigal]

Comic book hardships usually are supposed to make or break a character, I wanted Betsy to get her groove back, to gain some new awareness about who she is or how she feels but as a reader I have to say I just felt her absence, she’s so impalpable to me, I’m not really sure I can say she leaned any new lesson or evolved in any way..... I can see stuff is happening to her but it’s all very removed, almost like she isn’t experiencing her own life really but being blindly dragged around as the plot progresses, I can’t quite put my finger in it......I’m unsatisfied about the details or lack of details in the storytelling, I’m left wanting but not in a good way.

Yea, it is exactly what I thought if I go civilized but I just can't looking at issue #19 Betsy...

Also, Betsy should have experienced much more than Kwannon in the her entire life if you look at what Betsy did in the past. Why is Betsy being such a teenager girl and Kwannon being the big sister? The position should be reverse!

Like I said, Tini has very brief understanding of Betsy's past or even Kwannon's. Kwannon is only a Hand assassin and died at young age and then has never accomplished anything afterwards but Betsy has saved the world for so many times! Why would Betsy think she is like a loser beside those 'forced failure' in Excalibur?

[Rnap22]

The problem with the book and writing is that we are all interpreting it differently and that’s a problem. Ferro reads and understands it differently from me. I read it differently from Psycwave. And so on. Shouldn’t we all have at least the same understanding of the story? Isn’t that the point of writing. I can understand little things can be taken differently or someone didn’t see something, but I sit here and see everyone has different views on what happened or is happening. I feel this is the only book where every reader understands it differently as opposed to the other books where it’s pretty much “here’s what’s happening”

For me, I didn’t see Betsy being inside the body with Malice at all until the end of the issue where she coughed her out. I’m sure Malice was placed in that body by Sinister to double cross Jamie. We see Betsy in the Queen Betsy’s universe, but we don’t know if that’s her body or the queen’s body. She makes her escape it get back and then she’s not wanting to come back now. We also see the Queen Betsy in this issue, so we know that her body was used by our Betsy... so what happened to her after the escape? Was her body just left somewhere and 616 Betsy just bounced? The execution of this story isn’t thought out on the specifics of stuff like that.

***let me just add that I’m not calling anyone out if I used your name above. I just know we are mostly seeing and interpreting this book differently and just picked names as examples!***

[Psigal]

The problem with the book and writing is that we are all interpreting it differently and that’s a problem. Ferro reads and understands it differently from me. I read it differently from Psycwave. And so on. Shouldn’t we all have at least the same understanding of the story? Isn’t that the point of writing. I can understand little things can be taken differently or someone didn’t see something, but I sit here and see everyone has different views on what happened or is happening. I feel this is the only book where every reader understands it differently as opposed to the other books where it’s pretty much “here’s what’s happening”

For me, I didn’t see Betsy being inside the body with Malice at all until the end of the issue where she coughed her out. I’m sure Malice was placed in that body by Sinister to double cross Jamie. We see Betsy in the Queen Betsy’s universe, but we don’t know if that’s her body or the queen’s body. She makes her escape it get back and then she’s not wanting to come back now. We also see the Queen Betsy in this issue, so we know that her body was used by our Betsy... so what happened to her after the escape? Was her body just left somewhere and 616 Betsy just bounced? The execution of this story isn’t thought out on the specifics of stuff like that.

***let me just add that I’m not calling anyone out if I used your name above. I just know we are mostly seeing and interpreting this book differently and just picked names as examples!***

I have a simple answer, there was a change of plot.

[Kingdom X]

Yea, it is exactly what I thought if I go civilized but I just can't looking at issue #19 Betsy...

Also, Betsy should have experienced much more than Kwannon in the her entire life if you look at what Betsy did in the past. Why is Betsy being such a teenager girl and Kwannon being the big sister? The position should be reverse!

Like I said, Tini has very brief understanding of Betsy's past or even Kwannon's. Kwannon is only a Hand assassin and died at young age and then has never accomplished anything afterwards but Betsy has saved the world for so many times! Why would Betsy think she is like a loser beside those 'forced failure' in Excalibur?

People with the biggest accomplishments still deal with self-doubt and self-loathing. I agree that I’d rather see Betsy pick herself up but we could very easily see that in the culmination of this story next issue. Also as bad as it was, Fallen Angels was filled with this kind of introspection so you could argue that Kwannon has processed her side of the swap before Betsy has.

[Psigal]

People with the biggest accomplishments still deal with self-doubt and self-loathing. I agree that I’d rather see Betsy pick herself up but we could very easily see that in the culmination of this story next issue. Also as bad as it was, Fallen Angels was filled with this kind of introspection so you could argue that Kwannon has processed her side of the swap before Betsy has.

Sure, all story is possible with good explanation. But I don't see one even it is suppose to be the time to give one in #19 but there still isn't...what the hell?

But anyway, I have already confirmed it is Tini's 'cheap' way to make up Betsy's failure story for her plot to work up to this point(whether Betsy's fans like it or not).

[Psycwave]

That was my biggest gripe with the issue as well. And I quite enjoyed it, it was probably one of the best in the whole DoX/RoX run and was also a very nice showing of Marcus To's art.

But all of Howard's run Betsy has been lashing out at people, being stubborn and generally unlikeable, and that's absolutely in her character but you also need your readers to connect with your characters and Tini is failing spectacularly at that. So much so you come off this issue liking and understanding Kwannon but with a big question mark on Betsy: what motivates her, why is she reacting the way she is in this issue?

Relying on the readers being familiar with the characters history and making vague references just didn't work for me here, I think a good flashback scene going over what happened between Kwannon and Betsy would have gone a long way towards fleshing out both women's attitude and motivations instead of just making vague references to a shared past.

Comic book hardships usually are supposed to make or break a character, I wanted Betsy to get her groove back, to gain some new awareness about who she is or how she feels but as a reader I have to say I just felt her absence, she’s so impalpable to me, I’m not really sure I can say she leaned any new lesson or evolved in any way..... I can see stuff is happening to her but it’s all very removed, almost like she isn’t experiencing her own life really but being blindly dragged around as the plot progresses, I can’t quite put my finger in it......I’m unsatisfied about the details or lack of details in the storytelling, I’m left wanting but not in a good way.

Yeah...the issue as a whole just feel more like a win and closing arc for Psylocke than Betsy. I feel like if we have had half of Kwannon's dialogue go to spectral Betsy it could've worked a bit better. We keep being told their joined by circumstance and always will be etc. but only one really affirms it and the other just has to accept it. It didn't have the same punch that issues 13 and 17 had for me, which I feel were better looks into her mindset. The again, that could all be Tini's point. Have Kwannon close the door on that chapter of their life and force Betsy to move on because she's been so ridden with guilt to make the move herself.

There's still one issue left of this arc so I'm trying not to judge too harshly as it could all happen then. I enjoy Excalibur and I like that Howard has broken Betsy down to this level. She's always been the character that went through hell and instead of dealing with it just pushed through to save face (as so many in this thread have reminded us she did). It's nice to have her reach the point where she doesn't want to anymore. A Betsy that is tired and just wants to be in whatever kind of peace she can (falsely) find for herself in the other realities Captains but there were just a few things I wish could've been injected to flow better.

The art could have alleviated some issues also. The page where Kwannon comes through the gate and is all "Temporarily, I'm both" would have been such a great scene had we seen both the women speaking through the body. Maybe even if Psylocke's hair had just briefly turned purple again. I get Betsy was in the sword but it felt like she was left out of her own moment.

[Psycwave]

The problem with the book and writing is that we are all interpreting it differently and that’s a problem. Ferro reads and understands it differently from me. I read it differently from Psycwave. And so on. Shouldn’t we all have at least the same understanding of the story? Isn’t that the point of writing. I can understand little things can be taken differently or someone didn’t see something, but I sit here and see everyone has different views on what happened or is happening. I feel this is the only book where every reader understands it differently as opposed to the other books where it’s pretty much “here’s what’s happening”

For me, I didn’t see Betsy being inside the body with Malice at all until the end of the issue where she coughed her out. I’m sure Malice was placed in that body by Sinister to double cross Jamie. We see Betsy in the Queen Betsy’s universe, but we don’t know if that’s her body or the queen’s body. She makes her escape it get back and then she’s not wanting to come back now. We also see the Queen Betsy in this issue, so we know that her body was used by our Betsy... so what happened to her after the escape? Was her body just left somewhere and 616 Betsy just bounced? The execution of this story isn’t thought out on the specifics of stuff like that.

***let me just add that I’m not calling anyone out if I used your name above. I just know we are mostly seeing and interpreting this book differently and just picked names as examples!***

This is just something i attribute to Tini's style. I give her a lot of grace with it because she is still fairly new to the industry as a whole. I think Uncanny hit the nail on the head that a few flashback scenes would've helped immensely because she relies a lot of the reader already knowing xyz about the characters and their past.

When it comes to the Queen i read it as Betsy took over he body but not her mind. Sorceress Betsy makes it a point to note 616Betts took the Queen over while she was sleeping. Body still there.

Speaking of, I really liked all the Betsy Corps ready to beat Saturnyne's ass!

[Psycwave]

Not to discount those writers' efforts, in the least, Ninja Betsy was an excellent interpretation of Betsy as influenced by the body swap...at the time.
But this is just a new/different iteration of Betsy's journey, in her "true" body and mind, in this new era. And I appreciate that.

This is also how I feel. She's back in her own body, in a new role, with everyone looking at her like "how are you gonna act?" She's shook up and in an awkward spot. Everyone else is acknowledging it except for her. I don't count Disassembled as anything but a spectacle so I don't use it as a point of Betsy's overall story.

[Uncanny X-Man]

My understanding is that Betts first took over Queen Elizabeth's body when she was first shunted to her dimension, then left that body behind upon returning to 616 and possessed the new Sinister cloned body but got in turned possessed by Malice. Now she's free of Malice and in control of her new body, effectively "popping her resurrection cherry" to put it in Logan's words.

[Daedra]

My understanding is that Betts first took over Queen Elizabeth's body when she was first shunted to her dimension, then left that body behind upon returning to 616 and possessed the new Sinister cloned body but got in turned possessed by Malice. Now she's free of Malice and in control of her new body, effectively "popping her resurrection cherry" to put it in Logan's words.

I don’t know if I am having a brain blackout here but still I do not understand why she shattered like glass during her duel with Isca.... could anyone explain that to me ?

[Ferro]

I don’t know if I am having a brain blackout here but still I do not understand why she shattered like glass during her duel with Isca.... could anyone explain that to me ?

saturnyne booby trapped the sword, it was intended to be used as a material to bring the corps, but with brian as the captain.
but her own hubris plus enderestimating betsy's power lead to her spell backfiring on her