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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    One version of betsy that makes sense to make a return, or even a reference in spiritual form is earth X betsy, one that was taken by the siege perilous to Roma and merlyn instead of the shores of the Hand.

    Last edited by Ferro; 01-14-2021 at 12:48 PM.

  2. #77
    Mighty Member psylurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycwave View Post
    I'm there for a Betsy/Kwannon extended interaction beyond the few precious panels they had so far. I just wish it wasn't Tini who's writing it but I guess you can't have everything.

  3. #78
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    So I’m rereading my favorite era of X-Men right now (issues 200-280) and I just hit Lady Mandarin. How do they later say there was a body swap when it’s on panel showing Mojo pouring goop in her and peeling it off to reveal Asian features. Also when Logan sees her face, he recognizes her as Betsy. I can’t remember how or if it’s explained later or just hand waved..

  4. #79
    Mighty Member psylurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    So I’m rereading my favorite era of X-Men right now (issues 200-280) and I just hit Lady Mandarin. How do they later say there was a body swap when it’s on panel showing Mojo pouring goop in her and peeling it off to reveal Asian features. Also when Logan sees her face, he recognizes her as Betsy. I can’t remember how or if it’s explained later or just hand waved..
    I love that story-arc, I had read a few X-Men issues before but the Lady Mandarin saga really turned me into an X-Men (and Betsy Braddock) fan for life.

    And to answer your question, Claremont's original take was that Asian Betsy was simply British Betsy given Asian features via surgery and magic, so it would make a degree of sense for Logan to recognize her if that was the case.

    Years later when Nicieza came up with the Kwannon retcon, at some point he revealed it was actually Kwannon who attacked Logan in that instance... never mind the hair, eyes and everything that's actually on panel, but that's the official explanation.

  5. #80
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    ^ ^ ^

    Didn't Nicieza later admit he hadn't even read the Lady Mandarin arc before writing his script...? I could be misremembering.
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  6. #81
    Incredible Member seccruz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    ^ ^ ^

    Didn't Nicieza later admit he hadn't even read the Lady Mandarin arc before writing his script...? I could be misremembering.
    he fully did admit that
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  7. #82
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    I love that story-arc, I had read a few X-Men issues before but the Lady Mandarin saga really turned me into an X-Men (and Betsy Braddock) fan for life.

    And to answer your question, Claremont's original take was that Asian Betsy was simply British Betsy given Asian features via surgery and magic, so it would make a degree of sense for Logan to recognize her if that was the case.

    Years later when Nicieza came up with the Kwannon retcon, at some point he revealed it was actually Kwannon who attacked Logan in that instance... never mind the hair, eyes and everything that's actually on panel, but that's the official explanation.
    Right. Now that I’m rereading the old stuff, I can’t remember the Fabian stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    ^ ^ ^

    Didn't Nicieza later admit he hadn't even read the Lady Mandarin arc before writing his script...? I could be misremembering.
    Quote Originally Posted by seccruz View Post
    he fully did admit that
    I never knew that. He’s always been, IMO, a great writer. Weird that he wouldn’t do research (especially when there’s only a few issues) before doing a storyline..

  8. #83
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Right. Now that I’m rereading the old stuff, I can’t remember the Fabian stuff.

    I never knew that. He’s always been, IMO, a great writer. Weird that he wouldn’t do research (especially when there’s only a few issues) before doing a storyline..
    He is a great writer, and I actually enjoyed what he did with Psylocke/Kwannon... until I went back a few years later and read Claremont's arc. Then it became clear that - despite his intentions - Nicieza had really muddied the waters further with his retcon.
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  9. #84
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    And future writers after Nicieza certainly didn't do much to fix his mistake either, most of them only added to the problem and he got all of the blame...

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    The last story that I saw on the topic was that Nicieza did do his research on Betsy's body alteration. The problem was that he accidentally skipped an issue of the story while doing the research.

    He did still admit that it was his fault for skipping the missed issue, and took responsibility for the retcon, and not completely understanding the original body alteration story.
    I could be wrong on this however.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    The last story that I saw on the topic was that Nicieza did do his research on Betsy's body alteration. The problem was that he accidentally skipped an issue of the story while doing the research.

    He did still admit that it was his fault for skipping the missed issue, and took responsibility for the retcon, and not completely understanding the original body alteration story.
    I could be wrong on this however.
    yeah he admited to a mistake and somewhat created kwannon wich has been a positive! While claremont just repeated his gross orientalism one of the better written and interesting x-women at the time, that he decided needed a drastic power/costume change (it worked on storm once then it became his one trick) and horrid brainwashing/body horror was the reward betsy braddock deserved for saving the x-men i suposse LOL.

    SRS she could have gotten a physical hand to hand training arc
    Last edited by Ferro; 01-18-2021 at 07:30 AM.

  12. #87
    Focused Totality Psycwave's Avatar
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    X-Men Monday was Tini and Excalibur centric today. I really enjoyed this one:
    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/01/18/x-...ard-excalibur/

    AIPT: Eagerly awaiting you and Jonathan’s Violet Swan mini-series. Now, a question about our Betsy from X-Fan Lance. We’ve seen humans react to Betsy as Captain Britain. And, of course, we know how Saturnyne feels, but what about the mutants of Krakoa’s views on Betsy brandishing the colors of another nation? Lance was curious, how do you see Betsy’s relationship with her fellow mutants as it pertains to her current status as Captain Britain?

    Tini: As always I’m treading a line here, I don’t want to spoil my books, or set things up: but we’ll see a lot of Krakoa for a few issues, and we’ll see more of Excalibur’s function on the island of Krakoa and within the lighthouse. We’ve cemented that Krakoa and Avalon are beyond allies at this point, they’re sister kingdoms, and that’s the status quo. Much in the way that Captain Britain the comic went from being about the Captain of Britain to being about reality-warping and the Corps… we’re doing similar stuff here.
    I'm interested to see the team actually interacting with Krakoa a bit more. Other mutants reacting to Betsy as the acting CB could be really interesting a well! Even if Avalon and Krakoa are allies it doesn't mean that everyone will like it. I love that Tini mentions how dangerous Otherworld technically is for mutants despite it currently being infested with them throughout the various kingdoms lol.

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycwave View Post
    X-Men Monday was Tini and Excalibur centric today. I really enjoyed this one:
    https://aiptcomics.com/2021/01/18/x-...ard-excalibur/



    I'm interested to see the team actually interacting with Krakoa a bit more. Other mutants reacting to Betsy as the acting CB could be really interesting a well! Even if Avalon and Krakoa are allies it doesn't mean that everyone will like it. I love that Tini mentions how dangerous Otherworld technically is for mutants despite it currently being infested with them throughout the various kingdoms lol.
    Avalon an krakoa aren't just allies, the sister kingdom comment was already hinted in the XOS datapage on avalon, where it was revealed that the krakoan gates were having a positive effect on avalon, it's energy (wich we know is mutant magic) changing the realm.

    Remember that the first arc established that conection with an intricate ritual, now the magic of avalon and the proprieties of krakoa are conecting.

    Love that my question was answered eheh
    Last edited by Ferro; 01-18-2021 at 07:55 AM.

  14. #89
    Focused Totality Psycwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferro View Post
    Avalon an krakoa aren't just allies, the sister kingdom comment was already hinted and stated in the XOS datapage on avalon, where it was stated the krakoan gates were having a positive effect on avalon, it's energy (wich we know is mutant magic) changing the realm
    Oooooh I forgot all about that data page!

    Ugh, I'm very excited to see where Tini takes the team this year. She's always seemed so knowledgable with a great line of thinking and with XOS over and Poccy gone it's going to be a treat to see how she ramps it up. She's laid all the groundwork for her stories and now can just see them grow.

  15. #90

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    If only she looked like this in the interiors, I could dig the uniform better:

    captbritainbyMarcioTakara.jpg

    art by Marcio Takara
    A picture would last longer darling...

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