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  1. #286
    Mighty Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    Sorry, but anyone putting the Austen trash run over Aaron is INSANE. You might not love Aaron's run but I view it as just playing with the brightest toys in the sand box and just smashing them together to see what happens...there's a big full-color, widescreen joy in Aaron's run that I'm really digging without getting uptight because "Oh, he's disrespecting this 40 year old storyline" or "That's not how my myopic interpretation of this character would EVER act!" There's nothing wrong with the Avengers being big and broad and kinda crazy in how it's done...they shouldn't be a bunch of brooding moody self-reflective downbeat types. You want that, the X-books are at the other end of the comic shelves (or the Bendis run is available in trade form).

    Austen, though...YIKES. Easily the worst writer to work on the book ever. Two lobotomies and a billion pairs of rose-colored glasses couldn't make me wax nostalgic for the fecal discharge that was his run.

  2. #287
    Marvel's 1st Superhero Reviresco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaijudo View Post
    Sorry, but anyone putting the Austen trash run over Aaron is INSANE. You might not love Aaron's run but I view it as just playing with the brightest toys in the sand box and just smashing them together to see what happens...there's a big full-color, widescreen joy in Aaron's run that I'm really digging without getting uptight because "Oh, he's disrespecting this 40 year old storyline" or "That's not how my myopic interpretation of this character would EVER act!" There's nothing wrong with the Avengers being big and broad and kinda crazy in how it's done...they shouldn't be a bunch of brooding moody self-reflective downbeat types. You want that, the X-books are at the other end of the comic shelves (or the Bendis run is available in trade form).

    Austen, though...YIKES. Easily the worst writer to work on the book ever. Two lobotomies and a billion pairs of rose-colored glasses couldn't make me wax nostalgic for the fecal discharge that was his run.
    SMASHING stuff together is right. If you like your toys smashed, well, I think THAT is insane. I like the toys to stay intact and recognizable. Aaron's run is sheer stupidity and eye rolling painful. It isn't "fun" at all. I don't need the Avengers to be brooding or moody or self reflecting down beat characters -- I don't think anyone has asked for that. And that's more Daredevil than X-men. Nor is it ONE person complaining about the interpretation of a character. It's multiple people complaining about multiple characters.
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  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaijudo View Post
    Sorry, but anyone putting the Austen trash run over Aaron is INSANE. You might not love Aaron's run but I view it as just playing with the brightest toys in the sand box and just smashing them together to see what happens...there's a big full-color, widescreen joy in Aaron's run that I'm really digging without getting uptight because "Oh, he's disrespecting this 40 year old storyline" or "That's not how my myopic interpretation of this character would EVER act!" There's nothing wrong with the Avengers being big and broad and kinda crazy in how it's done...they shouldn't be a bunch of brooding moody self-reflective downbeat types. You want that, the X-books are at the other end of the comic shelves (or the Bendis run is available in trade form).
    That's a pretty fair point. Especially after Hickman's gloomy, nihilistic run, there's something to be said for Aaron's treating it like a big dumb goofy blockbuster. His approach reminds me quite a bit of Jeph Loeb (who also works a lot with Ed McGuinness), and like Loeb's comic runs, it's not so bad if you don't expect too much of it... they are superhero comics, after all. But I think with both Aaron and Loeb, they sometimes take even superhero comics beyond the boundaries of acceptable stupidity, if that makes sense.

    Austen's run is pretty bad, but it's also the last run to feature what I think of as the core Avengers cast -- particularly Wasp and Scarlet Witch, who still haven't found their way back to the main team after all these years. I would probably enjoy Aaron's run if it would keep the same approach but add some of the characters I consider the "real" Avengers, because it's really the all-star, Justice League-esque approach that bothers me more than Aaron's writing. (Even his treatment of She-Hulk is sort of a symptom of that, because it's based on the idea that the Avengers need a Hulk, whereas to me, She-Hulk is far more important to the Avengers than Hulk could ever be.) And I'm sure that's as much a Marvel editorial edict as anything else.

  4. #289
    Extraordinary Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurkle View Post
    That's a pretty fair point. Especially after Hickman's gloomy, nihilistic run, there's something to be said for Aaron's treating it like a big dumb goofy blockbuster. His approach reminds me quite a bit of Jeph Loeb (who also works a lot with Ed McGuinness), and like Loeb's comic runs, it's not so bad if you don't expect too much of it... they are superhero comics, after all. But I think with both Aaron and Loeb, they sometimes take even superhero comics beyond the boundaries of acceptable stupidity, if that makes sense.

    Austen's run is pretty bad, but it's also the last run to feature what I think of as the core Avengers cast -- particularly Wasp and Scarlet Witch, who still haven't found their way back to the main team after all these years. I would probably enjoy Aaron's run if it would keep the same approach but add some of the characters I consider the "real" Avengers, because it's really the all-star, Justice League-esque approach that bothers me more than Aaron's writing. (Even his treatment of She-Hulk is sort of a symptom of that, because it's based on the idea that the Avengers need a Hulk, whereas to me, She-Hulk is far more important to the Avengers than Hulk could ever be.) And I'm sure that's as much a Marvel editorial edict as anything else.
    I had not read too much of Aaron's Avengers, just a few issues here and there, but when I saw the news around issue #50 and teasing 2022 stories they did give me real Justice League vibes.

    I admit that I have never enjoyed Aaron's writing and when I see so many people complain about this run, particularly choices made with interpreting characters are drastically changing things about them, of course it reinforces that view, but I do wonder how this reads to people who are relatively new to Marvel, where all this stuff is not breaking the classic stories but instead giving them their own epic moments to latch on to. That is, in 10-15 years if we are still hanging out here or somewhere similar, will we see a generation of readers singing the praises of this era?

  5. #290
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    It's arguable. Rita and the original Swordsman survived the events of The Avengers Caos War, and so did the then deceased members of Alpha Flight (which Bendis killed off-panel, let it never be forgotten) survive their own adventures in Caos War. Marvel used the event to bring back to life the deceased members of AF, so, by association, a lot of people believed that Rita and Jaques also had a window to be back among the living. However, unlike the AF crew, they never showed up anywhere again. As time passes, it seems less likely that Marvel will ever pick this thread up. As a Rita fan, I find that a wasted opportunity.
    Pretty much. She even in story gets upset how the avengers just forgot about her!

    They left it open on her return along with dr droid and deathcry. Other then dr droid i don't think deathcry or rita showed up in anything later. Guess they are around somewhere but we have not seen them in anything.

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  6. #291
    Mighty Member Kaijudo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reviresco View Post
    SMASHING stuff together is right. If you like your toys smashed, well, I think THAT is insane. I like the toys to stay intact and recognizable. Aaron's run is sheer stupidity and eye rolling painful. It isn't "fun" at all. I don't need the Avengers to be brooding or moody or self reflecting down beat characters -- I don't think anyone has asked for that. And that's more Daredevil than X-men. Nor is it ONE person complaining about the interpretation of a character. It's multiple people complaining about multiple characters.
    Yeah, because if there's one thing comics fans are collectively known for, it's their calm and measured rationale when it comes to characters they like.

  7. #292
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaijudo View Post
    Sorry, but anyone putting the Austen trash run over Aaron is INSANE. You might not love Aaron's run but I view it as just playing with the brightest toys in the sand box and just smashing them together to see what happens...there's a big full-color, widescreen joy in Aaron's run that I'm really digging without getting uptight because "Oh, he's disrespecting this 40 year old storyline" or "That's not how my myopic interpretation of this character would EVER act!" There's nothing wrong with the Avengers being big and broad and kinda crazy in how it's done...they shouldn't be a bunch of brooding moody self-reflective downbeat types. You want that, the X-books are at the other end of the comic shelves (or the Bendis run is available in trade form).

    Austen, though...YIKES. Easily the worst writer to work on the book ever. Two lobotomies and a billion pairs of rose-colored glasses couldn't make me wax nostalgic for the fecal discharge that was his run.
    Austen was right before Disassembled, right?

    Wasn't that a pretty short run? Is it that bad?
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  8. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Austen was right before Disassembled, right?

    Wasn't that a pretty short run? Is it that bad?
    It was really just boring.
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  9. #294
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Austen was right before Disassembled, right?

    Wasn't that a pretty short run? Is it that bad?
    Yes. VERY.

    Peace

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaastra View Post
    Pretty much. She even in story gets upset how the avengers just forgot about her!

    They left it open on her return along with dr droid and deathcry. Other then dr droid i don't think deathcry or rita showed up in anything later. Guess they are around somewhere but we have not seen them in anything.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    I thought that at the end of the Chaos War all the resurrected just died again.

  11. #296
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I thought that at the end of the Chaos War all the resurrected just died again.
    Not all. Alpha Flight continued alive. Why them and not others? I have no idea.

    Peace

  12. #297
    Astonishing Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Back to the Austen arguement. Not all Avengers writers before him were winners for me. I never was a great Stan Lee fan (sacrilege, I know), but he got the whole ball running, so you got to respect that. Steve Englehart wrote thing I loved and things that I hated. Mostly, I don't like how he overwrites drama (it's TOOOOOOO much, IMHO), but he came up with some concepts that were gold. Shooter also had some great issues and some terrible ones (Avengers #200 anyone), particularly the second time around. After Avengers #300, the book went through a very uneven period, right up untill Harras and Epting took over And, then, there is the terrible slump after Harras left, up untill Waid briefly took over, before Rob Liefield took over (the less said about that, the better). However, in all those years, I dont think I ever felt as offended as a fan and as a reader as when Austen took over and had Hank catch Jan on the act of cheating on him with Hawkeye. And that's just for starters.

    Peace

  13. #298
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I feel like Waid never got his real due on an Avengers title. He got such a makeshift team and stuck with event tie-ins that he never quite found his footing.

  14. #299
    Incredible Member strathcona's Avatar
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    I read the article about Aaron's big plans coming after issue 50 and it has solidified my decision. I will buy issue 45 (only because I told my shop to order a copy for me) and then drop the book. I didn't order any of the Heroes Reborn books and just seeing all the talk on here about this run compared to Austen's (Bendis was worse IMO) has just confirmed... I don't need to be buying bad comics.

  15. #300
    Astonishing Member K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Yes, I've always liked Rita, but I think Gilgamesh's death was an even greater waste. It was a humiliating way for one of the most powerful of all Eternals to die. And, yes, he's back, but they never seem to know what to do with him.

    Peace
    I know, right?! They don't call him The Forgotten One for nothing...

    Last edited by K7P5V; 04-21-2021 at 07:41 AM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

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