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  1. #331
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    The problem with the big 3 is that there is no reason for them to be on the same team except for iconography and that's not worth just having 3 white guys. You can build a team around them but that's not worth doing if you're like Aaron who doesn't want to write any of them or Hickman who only needed Tony and Steve. Even Busiek's team didn't need Iron Man. The last time you needed all 3 of them for a story was Siege, and the last time you needed all 3 of them for a team was the 60's. So if an Avengers team wants to have all 3 of them they better have a good reason for it. But I shouldn't waste my breathe explaining what rosters need when this franchise can't even get a good book anymore.
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  2. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Don't get me wrong. It's not that I don't like the "Big 3", and don't want them in the team. It's the current view that they "must" be in all the line-ups to give it credibility (something that has been going on pratically since the first Avengers movie). I like the rotation of the members of the team, and, as Iron Man once said, the teams are too small to demand representation (and no, I don't intend to make this about Identity politics. I'm just focussing on the characters themselves). If you kill three slots with the big 3, and fill, at least two others with the current popular representation characters (Black Panther and Capt Marvel), all of them, as mentioned, with their own books, you don't get much wiggle room. It may have worked with DC and the magnificent & line-up (only for a while, IMHO), but I don't see it working for the Avengers. You get no worthwhile character development.

    Peace
    This is why I argue that they should pull in characters who DON'T have their own books to make up the team....the Big 3 can show up from time to time...but leave them to their own books to tell their stories and use a team book to tell the story for characters who don't have a book.

  3. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    The problem with the big 3 is that there is no reason for them to be on the same team except for iconography and that's not worth just having 3 white guys. You can build a team around them but that's not worth doing if you're like Aaron who doesn't want to write any of them or Hickman who only needed Tony and Steve. Even Busiek's team didn't need Iron Man. The last time you needed all 3 of them for a story was Siege, and the last time you needed all 3 of them for a team was the 60's. So if an Avengers team wants to have all 3 of them they better have a good reason for it. But I shouldn't waste my breathe explaining what rosters need when this franchise can't even get a good book anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    This is why I argue that they should pull in characters who DON'T have their own books to make up the team....the Big 3 can show up from time to time...but leave them to their own books to tell their stories and use a team book to tell the story for characters who don't have a book.
    This all seems much more obvious to the readers than to the writers it seems

  4. #334
    Mighty Member PhoenixThanos's Avatar
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    If the big three Captain America, Thor and Iron Man aren't on the Avengers roster the title will struggle and sales will drop, these guys are the Avengers like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are the Justice League.
    The Avengers team just doesn't have the same aura without them on the roster.
    I am a Marvel fan preferably cosmic storylines, especially Thanos or Dark Phoenix related, when both the Avengers and the X-Men are involved count me in, loved the original Uncanny Avengers series.
    Not a fan of any of the new characters.
    (Marvel/DC fan for 44+ years)

  5. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    If the big three Captain America, Thor and Iron Man aren't on the Avengers roster the title will struggle and sales will drop, these guys are the Avengers like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are the Justice League.
    The Avengers team just doesn't have the same aura without them on the roster.
    True, but at least they could put the secondary characters at the forefront and the big 3 as support

  6. #336
    Chaos bringer GenericUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    If the big three Captain America, Thor and Iron Man aren't on the Avengers roster the title will struggle and sales will drop, these guys are the Avengers like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are the Justice League.
    The Avengers team just doesn't have the same aura without them on the roster.
    Avengers comics have struggled before with them on the team so they aren't a sales guarantee.
    Love is for souls, not bodies.

  7. #337
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    If the big three Captain America, Thor and Iron Man aren't on the Avengers roster the title will struggle and sales will drop, these guys are the Avengers like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are the Justice League.
    The Avengers team just doesn't have the same aura without them on the roster.
    Well, IMHO, the thing is, it doesn't have to be the 3 at the same time always. Same thing with the Panther and Captain Marvel. You want synergy with the MCU, throw in Falc and Wanda in their places. Why not the Vision? Hawkeye? The Widow? You want a team with a few biga Guns? How about Iron Man, Falc, Wanda, Vizh and Hawkeye, with at least three others (and some of these aren't even among my favorites)? You still have characters with the recognition factor, and much more open to character development, and some with free reign. Once again, it's not that I deslike the Big Guns characters (I do like them, really), I just don't want them hogging all the spotlight.

    Peace

  8. #338
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixThanos View Post
    If the big three Captain America, Thor and Iron Man aren't on the Avengers roster the title will struggle and sales will drop, these guys are the Avengers like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are the Justice League.
    The Avengers team just doesn't have the same aura without them on the roster.
    The best selling 21st century Avengers comic was 2000's Bendis, which never had all three of them, sometimes didn't have two, sometimes it didn't have one.
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  9. #339
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    The problem with the big 3 is that there is no reason for them to be on the same team except for iconography and that's not worth just having 3 white guys. You can build a team around them but that's not worth doing if you're like Aaron who doesn't want to write any of them or Hickman who only needed Tony and Steve. Even Busiek's team didn't need Iron Man. The last time you needed all 3 of them for a story was Siege, and the last time you needed all 3 of them for a team was the 60's. So if an Avengers team wants to have all 3 of them they better have a good reason for it. But I shouldn't waste my breathe explaining what rosters need when this franchise can't even get a good book anymore.
    I like how Busiek used Tony though...

  10. #340
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    Personally it is about telling entertaining and engaging stories and not about who is on the team.

  11. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Personally it is about telling entertaining and engaging stories and not about who is on the team.
    That's true, but solo characters have more opportunities for that

  12. #342
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    The best selling 21st century Avengers comic was 2000's Bendis, which never had all three of them, sometimes didn't have two, sometimes it didn't have one.
    Yeah, I agree with your point, but that had a lot more to do with Marvel's sales strategy that with who was or wasn't in any book.

    Peace

  13. #343
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Personally it is about telling entertaining and engaging stories and not about who is on the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    That's true, but solo characters have more opportunities for that
    I agree with both statements.

    Peace

  14. #344
    Extraordinary Member Nomads1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I like how Busiek used Tony though...
    Me too.

    Peace

  15. #345
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomads1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I like how Busiek used Tony though...
    Me too.

    Peace
    In agreement with both of you. My favorite will always be Tony's team-up with the T-Bolts (Thunderbolts #12):
    Last edited by K7P5V; 04-27-2021 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

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