The Avengers Appreciation 2021

[gurkle]

And to think all this could have been avoided if Aaron and Marvel would just accept that the Avengers don't need to have a Hulk on the team. They didn't have him on the team from issue #2 for decades after. Even Bendis's revamp, which brought Spider-Man and Wolverine to the team, mostly didn't have the Hulk and didn't need him. But now "we have a Hulk" is so important that when Hulk became unavailable, they just made Jennifer act like the Hulk instead of Jennifer.

[CosmiComic]

Which Avengers runs?

Secret Invasion, A-Force (if that counts), HoM, some of Aaron's Avengers and Civil War were what I've read regularly. Other comics I read with her weren't so systematic.

So I guess it comes down to a difference of opinion

So, again, difference of opinion .

That's true, but that contradicts the whole "she's that way because of a certain ideal" that supposedly she needs to live up to

idealized for whom?

Exactly

I know some of you are being nice but you all are just going in circles now plus it has nothing to do with the book.

That tends to happen.

And to think all this could have been avoided if Aaron and Marvel would just accept that the Avengers don't need to have a Hulk on the team. They didn't have him on the team from issue #2 for decades after. Even Bendis's revamp, which brought Spider-Man and Wolverine to the team, mostly didn't have the Hulk and didn't need him. But now "we have a Hulk" is so important that when Hulk became unavailable, they just made Jennifer act like the Hulk instead of Jennifer.

While the other staple Avengers get ignored.

[Nomads1]

And to think all this could have been avoided if Aaron and Marvel would just accept that the Avengers don't need to have a Hulk on the team. They didn't have him on the team from issue #2 for decades after. Even Bendis's revamp, which brought Spider-Man and Wolverine to the team, mostly didn't have the Hulk and didn't need him. But now "we have a Hulk" is so important that when Hulk became unavailable, they just made Jennifer act like the Hulk instead of Jennifer.

That's the old "synergy" at work. The Hulk was important in the MCU (is he still? I don't know), so he "has" to be in the comics. And Bendis is not off the hook, for he did try to insert "a Hulk" in the Avengers pleanty of times. Avengers Assemble (with the most "detached" in continuity arc I can think off) and the Red Hulk just to name two. After that, it sort of became the rule. You had to have a Hulk representation in the Avengers in the movies, in the cartoons and in the comics. I prefered in the old days, when it was always an event when the Hulk showed up (sort of like Avengers #100, but I'm not THAT old). My favorite Avengers are not the "big guns", and I've always prefered the more mixed up line-ups, than the All-Star one. Not even the Justice League I like the All-Star line-up.

Peace

[CosmiComic]

That's the old "synergy" at work. The Hulk was important in the MCU (is he still? I don't know), so he "has" to be in the comics. And Bendis is not off the hook, for he did try to insert "a Hulk" in the Avengers pleanty of times. Avengers Assemble (with the most "detached" in continuity arc I can think off) and the Red Hulk just to name two. After that, it sort of became the rule. You had to have a Hulk representation in the Avengers in the movies, in the cartoons and in the comics. I prefered in the old days, when it was always an event when the Hulk showed up (sort of like Avengers #100, but I'm not THAT old). My favorite Avengers are not the "big guns", and I've always prefered the more mixed up line-ups, than the All-Star one. Not even the Justice League I like the All-Star line-up.

Peace

I can't entirely disagree. the other guys expand the Avengers' storylines. Ant-Man, Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Vision and to some extent Quicksilver all are connected to the Avengers concept as a whole, because their storylines are the Avengers' storylines. Plus, they have the most interesting superpowers on the team IMIO.

[Witchfan]

Best Avengers stories of all time
https://www.gamesradar.com/best-avengers-stories/

10. Red Zone- Geoff Johns
9. Breakout- Brian Michael Bendis
8. Young Avengers- Allan Heinberg
7. Avengers Forever- Kurt Busiek
6. The Korvac Saga- Jim Shooter
5. Ultron Unlimited- Kurt Busiek
4. Behold the Vision! / Even an Android Can Cry- Roy Thomas
3. The Kree/Skrull War- Roy Thomas
2. The Kang Dynasty- Kurt Busiek
1. Under Siege- Roger Stern

Kurt Busiek gave us three of the best stories and Roy Thomas gave us two.

[Digifiend]

Avengers say, get a jab!
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/m...re-1235048395/

[Nomads1]

Best Avengers stories of all time
https://www.gamesradar.com/best-avengers-stories/

10. Red Zone- Geoff Johns
9. Breakout- Brian Michael Bendis
8. Young Avengers- Allan Heinberg
7. Avengers Forever- Kurt Busiek
6. The Korvac Saga- Jim Shooter
5. Ultron Unlimited- Kurt Busiek
4. Behold the Vision! / Even an Android Can Cry- Roy Thomas
3. The Kree/Skrull War- Roy Thomas
2. The Kang Dynasty- Kurt Busiek
1. Under Siege- Roger Stern

Kurt Busiek gave us three of the best stories and Roy Thomas gave us two.

It's a good list. Can't say I agree with all of them, and my all-time favorite is not there (it'd be very strange it I did and it was, for everybody has their personal favorites, and they are not universally shared), but it's a pretty good list.

Peace

[Overhazard]

That's the old "synergy" at work. The Hulk was important in the MCU (is he still? I don't know), so he "has" to be in the comics. And Bendis is not off the hook, for he did try to insert "a Hulk" in the Avengers pleanty of times. Avengers Assemble (with the most "detached" in continuity arc I can think off) and the Red Hulk just to name two. After that, it sort of became the rule. You had to have a Hulk representation in the Avengers in the movies, in the cartoons and in the comics. I prefered in the old days, when it was always an event when the Hulk showed up (sort of like Avengers #100, but I'm not THAT old). My favorite Avengers are not the "big guns", and I've always prefered the more mixed up line-ups, than the All-Star one. Not even the Justice League I like the All-Star line-up.

Peace

The Hulk wasn't all that important in the MCU really. Mostly due to rights issues I imagine. "I'm always angry" and one shotting the leviathan in the first Avengers was the only big hero moment he got. He really should have gotten a rematch against Thanos in endgame, Captain Marvel no selling the headbutt was cool, but it really should have been the hulk. I don't remember Bendis doing too much with the hulk though, I didn't even think he liked him very much, but I could be wrong.

[Reviresco]

Best Avengers stories of all time
https://www.gamesradar.com/best-avengers-stories/

10. Red Zone- Geoff Johns
9. Breakout- Brian Michael Bendis
8. Young Avengers- Allan Heinberg
7. Avengers Forever- Kurt Busiek
6. The Korvac Saga- Jim Shooter
5. Ultron Unlimited- Kurt Busiek
4. Behold the Vision! / Even an Android Can Cry- Roy Thomas
3. The Kree/Skrull War- Roy Thomas
2. The Kang Dynasty- Kurt Busiek
1. Under Siege- Roger Stern

Kurt Busiek gave us three of the best stories and Roy Thomas gave us two.

Isn't this a personal favorites list of someone writing for Newsarama? Here's a Top 50 list that CBR readers voted on of a few years back:

https://www.cbr.com/50-greatest-aven...s-master-list/

There's similarities on the top end, (Busiek and Thomas rule) but you can tell where the Newsarama guy is just picking his own favorites.

[Triniking1234]

Isn't this a personal favorites list of someone writing for Newsarama? Here's a Top 50 list that CBR readers voted on of a few years back:

https://www.cbr.com/50-greatest-aven...s-master-list/

There's similarities on the top end, (Busiek and Thomas rule) but you can tell where the Newsarama guy is just picking his own favorites.

Like Red Zone is good but we still have Celestial Madonna, Immortus vs. West Coast, Bride of Ultron, versus the Olympians, Gravitron, Count Neferia, etc.

[CosmiComic]

Isn't this a personal favorites list of someone writing for Newsarama? Here's a Top 50 list that CBR readers voted on of a few years back:

https://www.cbr.com/50-greatest-aven...s-master-list/

There's similarities on the top end, (Busiek and Thomas rule) but you can tell where the Newsarama guy is just picking his own favorites.

So it's not really that objective?

[Frontier]

The Hulk wasn't all that important in the MCU really. Mostly due to rights issues I imagine. "I'm always angry" and one shotting the leviathan in the first Avengers was the only big hero moment he got. He really should have gotten a rematch against Thanos in endgame, Captain Marvel no selling the headbutt was cool, but it really should have been the hulk. I don't remember Bendis doing too much with the hulk though, I didn't even think he liked him very much, but I could be wrong.

I thought Earth's Mightiest Heroes used Hulk well.

[Reviresco]

Like Red Zone is good but we still have Celestial Madonna, Immortus vs. West Coast, Bride of Ultron, versus the Olympians, Gravitron, Count Neferia, etc.

Exactly.

Red Zone isn't doesn't even make my own personal list. There's just too many more memorable story lines, IMO.

So it's not really that objective?

It's kind of hard to be totally objective about a 'best' list. But the writer doesn't explain his standards or criteria for picking these ten stories, so no, I don't think it's particularly objective. Cronin's list, however, is a consensus of comic book readers who voted. IIRC, he usually gets hundreds of voters, so I think his list is far more objective. It's not his picks, but a tabulation of the votes.

[CosmiComic]

Exactly.

Red Zone isn't doesn't even make my own personal list. There's just too many more memorable story lines, IMO.







It's kind of hard to be totally objective about a 'best' list. But the writer doesn't explain his standards or criteria for picking these ten stories, so no, I don't think it's particularly objective. Cronin's list, however, is a consensus of comic book readers who voted. IIRC, he usually gets hundreds of voters, so I think his list is far more objective. It's not his picks, but a tabulation of the votes.

I meant to say "not just a personalized list of favorites". I agree being objective is hard, but like you say, at least show why these get picked. Anyway, I don't want to make too big a deal of it

[Nomads1]

Like Red Zone is good but we still have Celestial Madonna, Immortus vs. West Coast, Bride of Ultron, versus the Olympians, Gravitron, Count Neferia, etc.

Yeah. Assault on Olympus is my all-time favorite Avengers story, and, though not a personal favorite, Celestial Madonna is a must (though I do think the irregular art of the last chapters of it don't do it any favors). The Nefaria trilogy is another one that should be a big deal. But I like Red Zone too.

Peace