Future State: Superman books

[Vordan]

I thought of Val Zod or Calvin Ellis instead. Bu Kenan would've fit too the all-new all-diverse DC of "5G".

Already two (maybe three with Flash?) black members of the League, but no Asian rep. Nah it should’ve been Kenan, he already had a whole series building him up DC could’ve used as a launchpad too.

[NaVi]

Actually, I think most people like Jon. It's just that a good portion of those that like him don't want him aged up, not only because of what it does to him but also for what it does to Superman. At some point he should be a teenager, but we are far away from that.

normal continuity, Clark as superman, Conner as superboy, Jon as a boy living his own adventures.
future state, Clark leaves earth, Conner becomes superman, Jon becomes superboy.
all they had to do was follow the natural rhythm of history, but in dc they like to destroy everything they touch.

[DragonPiece]

Didn't even realize till now this isn't the same superman future state thread we were using last year, missed out on pages and pages of discussion it seems lol.

Always good seeing Vodan and Superlad's analysis, gives me a somewhat better impression of the issue than I initially had.

[Alpha]

normal continuity, Clark as superman, Conner as superboy, Jon as a boy living his own adventures.
future state, Clark leaves earth, Conner becomes superman, Jon becomes superboy.
all they had to do was follow the natural rhythm of history, but in dc they like to destroy everything they touch.

Actully I don't think Conner should be Superman. We've been discussing in anothee thread what we would want out of Conner and I think he really needs his own identity.

[Vordan]

Didn't even realize till now this isn't the same superman future state thread we were using last year, missed out on pages and pages of discussion it seems lol.

Always good seeing Vodan and Superlad's analysis, gives me a somewhat better impression of the issue than I initially had.

Hah yeah I was a little surprised at how negatively you received the issue, but I can’t deny the compression hurts the issue a little. Part of my enjoyment I think comes from this being a 2 issue miniseries, so that’s a very short window to tell a story with. As long as the ideas on display hold my attention for these Future State books, that’s enough for me to enjoy them. If it was the first issue of an ongoing I’d probably react more negatively, but as a mini I give Lewis more leeway.

[manwhohaseverything]

Needed to get Brain Cells far enough away from the people to loosen his hold on them. Why not just fly it into space?!? Kara who is supposed to be influenced by Brain Cells is actually made reasonable points. Jon just went full Brainiac on Metropolis, damn right she should be upset. Then after he shrinks and bottles the freaking city he thinks, woops maybe that wasn't a good idea.

Actually,it hasn't been provided that distance can minimise effects of mind control.The degree of autonomy granted to the people where a way of deceving jon.Morover,jon didn't shrink the city to stop brain cell's mind control.He realised brain cells fully controlled the people later on,when it tells him.Jon takes metropolis to save it's citizens from the military.He didn't want metropolis to be a battle ground where innocent children die.It also happened to be a way of creating a barrier between brain cells and the people.No,he doesn't think it was bad idea.He just hadn't thought the entire thing through to the details like people inside the dome going paranoid or rioting or something like that.Hey!that's why there are people like guardian and mister miracle.They will take care of the strays.That's how a team works.
"what is teamwork really when you get right down to it? Is it just about protecting each other and helping each other out? I guess most people would say so, but they're just fooling themselves. I think teamwork is more than that in the end. It's about individuals taking individual risks if you ask me. We work together by working separately. You stand up to risk your own life. You do what you can the best that you can, then you turn to the others and expect the same from them."
it's a "I did my part.Now you do yours.I got you covered" kinda deal.Jon also was shown to be never alone on his previous adventures like killing brainiac.Sure,it can feel chaotic.but,there is method to the madness.Also,this way if anything bad happens.It would be on jon and not anyone else.He would need to take reponsibilty.If it works,it's because of team work.That's what the job of a leader is.To lead in action.Not with words.

[Superlad93]

In regards to the question of if Jon will actually be shown to be stronger than Kara and Clark, Lewis has a retweet that seems to hint at the answer.

https://twitter.com/TheTurboDeku/sta...44162573815808

"@SeanChrisLewis So I just read Superman of Metropolis (great read btw), and I have one question for you. Isn’t Jon suppose to be stronger than Superman? So why did Kara beat him up so hard. Unless we haven’t seen Jon’s full power yet..."

Then someone else mentioned "He retweeted it. Looks like it ain’t too late for Jon to develop some new powers "

I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that Brain Cells *knows* of Jon's potential power, and that he's been holding it back by taking shots at his confidence.

I'm hoping for a moment similar to the New 52 Superman's "space jump" where he (and we) realize the only reason he hasn't done that much before is because he hasn't needed to. For New 52 Clark it was because he'd be fighting conventional weapons and racing police cars, and for Jon it's because he's always had either Kara or his dad there doing most of the heavy lifting.

For Jon, it'll literalize the idea of really and truly coming into your own on your own. What most don't realize (till they go through it themselves) is that being of age doesn't yet make you a functional adult. That's a point of growth that you have to be allowed to get to on your own.

[NaVi]

Actully I don't think Conner should be Superman. We've been discussing in anothee thread what we would want out of Conner and I think he really needs his own identity.

I put him as superman, because I think the world would see him as the new superman. He could be called whatever he wants, but for the world he would be the second superman

[manwhohaseverything]

In regards to the question of if Jon will actually be shown to be stronger than Kara and Clark, Lewis has a retweet that seems to hint at the answer.

https://twitter.com/TheTurboDeku/sta...44162573815808

"@SeanChrisLewis So I just read Superman of Metropolis (great read btw), and I have one question for you. Isn’t Jon suppose to be stronger than Superman? So why did Kara beat him up so hard. Unless we haven’t seen Jon’s full power yet..."

Then someone else mentioned "He retweeted it. Looks like it ain’t too late for Jon to develop some new powers "

I'm becoming increasingly more convinced that Brain Cells *knows* of Jon's potential power, and that he's been holding it back by taking shots at his confidence.

I'm hoping for a moment similar to the New 52 Superman's "space jump" where he (and we) realize the only reason he hasn't done that much before is because he hasn't needed to. For New 52 Clark it was because he'd be fighting conventional weapons and racing police cars, and for Jon it's because he's always had either Kara or his dad there doing most of the heavy lifting.

For Jon, it'll literalize the idea of really and truly coming into your own on your own. What most don't realize (till they go through it themselves) is that being of age doesn't yet make you a functional adult. That's a point of growth that you have to be allowed to get to on your own.

I hope they don't scale him up that fast.Also,want some character(protagonist or antagonist) to act as a cap for how much jon can grow and not beyond.I would appreciate the kid earn his power.Also,i think they are expanding on what tomasi's run did with jon's emotions being connected to his power.

[Superlad93]

I hope they don't scale him up that fast.Also,want some character(protagonist or antagonist) to act as a cap for how much jon can grow and not beyond.I would appreciate the kid earn his power.Also,i think they are expanding on what tomasi's run did with jon's emotions being connected to his power.

I mean, "fast" is pretty relative in this situation given the fact that for Jon it's been 10 years of him being Superman yet not reaching his full potential because he's always had the 'training wheels' of his dad or Kara.

And given the fact that he's spent those 10 years fighting and trying even with his reduced power, I'd say he's earned it. We see sort of a micro version of that in issue #1 where we get the sense that he's had to figure out work arounds (which is why he says "you have to have a plan"), and we see that he doesn't give up even when the foe is much more capable than he is (his fight with Kara).

What really matters is how this plays out in the present day. From PKJ's words we know that it'll be a topic of interest. I'd be interested in it being something that he has to learn to control along with his emotions and confidence. We know Jon's emotional and mental state will be another plot point going forward.

The metaphor of finding confidence in yourself after finally truly being allowed to be on your own, and realizing you can be even greater than the measuring stick you've held in your mind for so long is a pretty powerful sentiment for any young person.

[Alpha]

I find this whole discussion about who's stronger very boring, but whatever. Hope the vooks don't put that much into Jon comparing his powers to others

[Superlad93]

I find this whole discussion about who's stronger very boring, but whatever. Hope the vooks don't put that much into Jon comparing his powers to others

I'm never really one to worry much about who is or isn't more power for just the sake of it. But in the case where it's tied into some thematic or character building relevance? I'm all about that, because that's ultimately the point of superhero fiction (and most fantasy fiction in general): expressing ideas, emotions, and real moments in life in the most pointed and cathartic ways possible.

Had this comic just framed things as Jon having it him to be more powerful...and that was it, I wouldn't find it nearly as engaging or worth discussing. But framing it in the context of a character arc and a young person battling with their confidence and perceptions of themselves? That's that good sh!t right there.

It's why the moment when Clark learns to fly for the first time in any modern retelling is a capital M moment. The physical expression of that growth and ascendency is so powerful.

[NaVi]

I find this whole discussion about who's stronger very boring, but whatever. Hope the vooks don't put that much into Jon comparing his powers to others

the problem is that dc is obsessed with leaving superman to nothing.
Supergirl was said to be stronger.
H'El, I treat superman like a kid.
Zod is superman but he is also an expert in combat.
Rao, another Kryptonian who treated superman like a child. now Jon will be stronger too.
Every new character that appears in the superverse is stronger than superman, at least initially.

[Ra-El]

the problem is that dc is obsessed with leaving superman to nothing.
Supergirl was said to be stronger.
H'El, I treat superman like a kid.
Zod is superman but he is also an expert in combat.
Rao, another Kryptonian who treated superman like a child. now Jon will be stronger too.
Every new character that appears in the superverse is stronger than superman, at least initially.

If we are luck one day one of those will actually stick as the most powerful one and become the new punching bag of the DC universe. The next time someone wants to make a edgy story about WW, Batman or whatever other character being badasses they will have them beating up Supergirl, Jon, Conner or whatever.

[Frontier]

If we are luck one day one of those will actually stick as the most powerful one and become the new punching bag of the DC universe. The next time someone wants to make a edgy story about WW, Batman or whatever other character being badasses they will have them beating up Supergirl, Jon, Conner or whatever.

It's all about who the main, prominent, characters are...