Future State: Superman books

[Ra-El]

It's all about who the main, prominent, characters are...

I'm not usually in favor of depowering Superman, but sometimes I think the characters would be better off not being the measure stick of the DCU, let MM, Shazam or Wonder Woman be the one that every new hero or villain beat up so the writers don't have to do the work of building them up.

[Frontier]

I'm not usually in favor of depowering Superman, but sometimes I think the characters would be better off not being the measure stick of the DCU, let MM, Shazam or Wonder Woman be the one that every new hero or villain beat up so the writers don't have to do the work of building them up.

I think it just comes from being seen as the top hero, both in-universe and out.

[NaVi]

If we are luck one day one of those will actually stick as the most powerful one and become the new punching bag of the DC universe. The next time someone wants to make a edgy story about WW, Batman or whatever other character being badasses they will have them beating up Supergirl, Jon, Conner or whatever.

Flash is stronger, ww and green lantern are at his level, but DC doesn't care, superman will still be everyone's punching bag. So at least he's the strongest in his family, but dc doesn't allow even that.

[Alpha]

My god, I'm so tired of seeing these discussions in every thread about how their character should be shown as much stronger and as a bigger threat. I want more interesting stories, not any of that.

[Alpha]

The only character that gets more interesting the stronger she is, is Squirrel Girl

[Superlad93]

The only character that gets more interesting the stronger she is, is Squirrel Girl

I think it all depends on what the point of the increase or decrees in power is. Sometimes writers and the company at large will just do it for the sake of the wow factor and bragging rights. But other times it's honestly in service of the story and the character arc.

The Superman 2000 pitch and All Star Superman are pretty fantastic examples of this. in 2000 Clark gains a boost in power and sense, and that leads to him having to readjust how he functions as a person. In All Star his increase in power leads him to completing a number of tasks he'd put off, and that leads him to realizing that, for some of them, he didn't need to be even more super.

And since the fascinating thing about Jon's potential increase in power is the fact that, according to the upcoming writer for the Superman line PKJ, he doesn't want to be Superman because that means his dad won't be around and he'll be constantly compared to his accomplishments and legacy. And on top of that he feels less than his father and aunt because he's half human, so idea that he may one day be overqualified all the more interesting.

Plus, the idea that his powers may be linked to his confidence and emotional state allows for internal conflicts to be manifested and resolved cathartically in the physical in a way Clark, and most western comics, simply don't take advantage of in such a direct way.

That's why this is more interesting to me than it normally would be.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Already two (maybe three with Flash?) black members of the League, but no Asian rep. Nah it should’ve been Kenan, he already had a whole series building him up DC could’ve used as a launchpad too.

Or Kara. She was about to replace Clark in the DCEU a couple of years ago

[Superlad93]

Or Kara. She was about to replace Clark in the DCEU a couple of years ago

Gonna still assume Jon and Tim replace Clark and Bruce on Bendis' JL a little down the line. Both Clark and Bruce seem like they'll be getting to some version of the Future State status quo in due time (according to PKJ DC as a whole already has plans 18 months or more in advance), so their seats will be up for grabs, and based on what Ridley's talking about in interviews, and the fact that the Superman book is more or less Jon's (with Clark co staring till he goes cosmic) for the foreseeable future, seems like it'll be them.

And there's also the fact that Yang's Batman/Superman book doesn't seem to actually be about our Clark and Bruce, but rather multiple alternates. That basically allows that book to remain about Clark and Bruce while not having to worry about what the main Earth is doing, unlike Justice League, which is clearly knee deep in main Earth stuff.

[Sacred Knight]

So I heard that Superman is the only Future State book of the Trinity that DIDN'T get sold out. Does this reflect disinterest in an aged up Jon Kent, the previous Superman run souring readers, or something else?

Superman fans don't like Kal-El/Clark Kent replaced/removed. The only time it was successful was with Reign, and only because everyone and their mother knew that it was one huge set up for Superman's triumphant return. This has been documented before so its not surprising. The idea would get a similar rejection (not saying one issue counts as wholesale rejection, but I fully believe that's where we'll get soon enough) if it were Conner or anyone else. Its particularly idiotic with Jon (but then again everything with this character is), but its more about Clark.

Oh, I forgot to clarify, I believe this is the case despite Future State itself just being two months because readers already know that Jon is still going to take the name and a title even once this is over. So the fact this is just a two-month thing isn't really a factor in acceptance anymore.

[Ra-El]

Superman fans don't like Kal-El/Clark Kent replaced/removed. The only time it was successful was with Reign, and only because everyone and their mother knew that it was one huge set up for Superman's triumphant return. This has been documented before so its not surprising. The idea would get a similar rejection (not saying one issue counts as wholesale rejection, but I fully believe that's where we'll get soon enough) if it were Conner or anyone else. Its particularly idiotic with Jon (but then again everything with this character is), but its more about Clark.

I think we have to keep in mind that Batman is Batman, his titles go to second print everytime there is a new batmobile then we add Ridler into the equation and it's a given it was going to second print. And Yara was a hit the moment they revealed her design, she clicked with a huge part of the audience, the critics loved everything about her in such a way that they are already developing a tv show about her!
Plus we have to keep in mind that both of those titles have new diversy leads, taking the mantle into a mostly new direction.

Then we have Jon Kent, who is around for 5 years, the last developments with the character were controversial at best, I mean the age up still have people pissed about it. Not to say anything about the art either, Joelle Jones and Derrington are some of the best right now. So, not a surprise that Superman of Metropolis was the worst performer of the three, no matter how good we think it was.

[Frontier]

The only character that gets more interesting the stronger she is, is Squirrel Girl

Squirrel Girl has the conventional strength of a squirrel but her biggest strength isn't conventional.

[Alpha]

I think it all depends on what the point of the increase or decrees in power is. Sometimes writers and the company at large will just do it for the sake of the wow factor and bragging rights. But other times it's honestly in service of the story and the character arc.

The Superman 2000 pitch and All Star Superman are pretty fantastic examples of this. in 2000 Clark gains a boost in power and sense, and that leads to him having to readjust how he functions as a person. In All Star his increase in power leads him to completing a number of tasks he'd put off, and that leads him to realizing that, for some of them, he didn't need to be even more super.

And since the fascinating thing about Jon's potential increase in power is the fact that, according to the upcoming writer for the Superman line PKJ, he doesn't want to be Superman because that means his dad won't be around and he'll be constantly compared to his accomplishments and legacy. And on top of that he feels less than his father and aunt because he's half human, so idea that he may one day be overqualified all the more interesting.

Plus, the idea that his powers may be linked to his confidence and emotional state allows for internal conflicts to be manifested and resolved cathartically in the physical in a way Clark, and most western comics, simply don't take advantage of in such a direct way.

That's why this is more interesting to me than it normally would be.

You're right about All Star Suprrman and the Superman 2000 pitch, but that's because Clark doesn't necessarily want to get more powerful and in fact the more powerful he gets the more trouble it invites. That works specially because it's a short series.

I really don't care about creating that conflict with Jon. He can be weaker and stay weaker, there's nothing bad or uninteresting about that. The only interesting conclusion to a boring trope of a kid worrying about living up to his predecessor is him actually coming to understand that he actually isn't as good. I know these comics tend to tell the same stories over and over again, and I hate that, but this is a case where I definitely hate it.

[Alpha]

Someone else's comment in another thread made me realize that Jon should absolutely be weaker than Superman, and probably at the level of Conner, but he should be the most technologically savy of the family. I like Kara to be the cultural savior trying to be a spiritual guide and revitalize the culture she grew up in, Conner being the boots on the ground Golden Age Social Warrior, and Jon being the one who is collecting space weapons and objects and develop new things using his powers.

[Superlad93]

I really don't care about creating that conflict with Jon. He can be weaker and stay weaker, there's nothing bad or uninteresting about that. The only interesting conclusion to a boring trope of a kid worrying about living up to his predecessor is him actually coming to understand that he actually isn't as good. I know these comics tend to tell the same stories over and over again, and I hate that, but this is a case where I definitely hate it.

Well, it's fine if you feel that way, but I don't agree. As PKJ, the writer for the Superman books said, Jon doesn't actually want to be Superman, so I imagine he doesn't also want to be more powerful than his father. Similar to your assessment of Clark, this only invites trouble for him because then not only would he be the logical choice to be Superman by blood, but also do to sheer over qualification. Him dealing with that idea, and dealing with the implication that his power may be centered around his emotional health and level of confidence is fascinating to me. That leave room for fluctuations in his power, so conflict can spring from that.

And just based off the person that I am, I'll always root for the idea of each generation improving and becoming greater than the one before it. That's the whole idea of my long ass quote in red. So rarely do we ever see that sort of changing of the guard in western comics, so when we get it, and Tim Fox's Batman has apparently saved Gotham in a way Bruce never could, and Jon has it in him to be more powerful than his dad, I root for it. And that's coming from someone who is diehard Clark Kent fan.

[Vordan]

Next up is Watters, dude is pretty well regarded critically from what I’ve seen. Fingers crossed this does a good job with Jon & Yara, especially with Solaris thrown in the mix!

Superman fans don't like Kal-El/Clark Kent replaced/removed. The only time it was successful was with Reign, and only because everyone and their mother knew that it was one huge set up for Superman's triumphant return. This has been documented before so its not surprising. The idea would get a similar rejection (not saying one issue counts as wholesale rejection, but I fully believe that's where we'll get soon enough) if it were Conner or anyone else. Its particularly idiotic with Jon (but then again everything with this character is), but its more about Clark.

Oh, I forgot to clarify, I believe this is the case despite Future State itself just being two months because readers already know that Jon is still going to take the name and a title even once this is over. So the fact this is just a two-month thing isn't really a factor in acceptance anymore.

Nah I doubt you’d get the same backlash if it was Kon taking over the role. There wasn’t a big backlash to Dick taking over for Bruce during the Batman & Robin era.