Future State: Superman books

[Korath]

I'm feeling as if I'm missing so much context here, since I can't read the FS issues... but at least I take is a testament of great potential. Do we know if Superman FS is also getting a second printing ? All the others out last week do, right ?

[Superlad93]

But at the end of the day, in terms of mythology what gives Clark his powers is precisely his kryptonian physiology, and it would only be logical that if we are able to reproduce with a human, the child would be physically closer to a human than Clark is, which includes having less powers.

But that's such an arbitrary limitation that you're placing on a fictional race and idea that has historically fluctuated in its logic. It's inherently fluid in terms of the internal logic beyond Kryptonian+sun=power. And it's not as if we live in a vacuum. There are numerous examples of hybrid characters being more powerful than pure blood characters. Aquaman, Thor, and Invincible are just a few. You widen that to video games and anime/manga and you have Dante and his brother Vergil from DMC being miles more powerful than their father specifically because they are half human, and Vergil's son Nero on his way to rivaling his dad and his uncle even though he's even less than half demon. There's also the famous examples of Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (and even Pan) from DBZ. Their only flaw in power being the fact that none of them take to fighting the same way their pure blood fathers' do, yet they have vastly more potential power in them.

So, while I respect that you personal don't see the logic in it, we can't act like this isn't well within the wheelhouse of fiction like this. And this isn't even the first time a hybrid kryptonian has proven stronger than Clark-- it's not even the first time it's been Jon. Jon Lane-Kent of the New 52 was said to already be more powerful than his father at an early age.

And I think the age he was at when he left with Jor El is the age where he would start to develop his particular interests that would start to define him in ways not even he understood. I think in his case it would be a desire to discover. This is something he would get from both his parents personality as journalists, but he would interpret in his own way as scientific research. He would wanna learn all about spaceand alien races. He would love spaceships and things like that.

These are really specific leaps you're making that don't have textual backing. Whereas the idea of his power, his mental health, and hybrid nature as points of major interest for his character have years of textual backing to support it as an inextricable aspect of his character and themes surrounding him .

[HsssH]

I'm feeling as if I'm missing so much context here, since I can't read the FS issues... but at least I take is a testament of great potential. Do we know if Superman FS is also getting a second printing ? All the others out last week do, right ?

Someone posted few pages that Superman issue is only Trinity issue to not get a second printing. Honestly I don't think that it matters much, Yara is new hot character and we are finally getting a black Batman. While Jon has been around for few years already and lots of people kinda have already accepted (either liking or hating it) that DC will push him as new Superman so its not like this FS book is bringing anything new to the table. it is not some shocking reveal or never before seen new character.

[Alpha]

But that's such an arbitrary limitation that you're placing on a fictional race and idea that has historically fluctuated in its logic. It's inherently fluid in terms of the internal logic beyond Kryptonian+sun=power. And it's not as if we live in a vacuum. There are numerous examples of hybrid characters being more powerful than pure blood characters. Aquaman, Thor, and Invincible are just a few. You widen that to video games and anime/manga and you have Dante and his brother Vergil from DMC being miles more powerful than their father specifically because they are half human, and Vergil's son Nero on his way to rivaling his dad and his uncle even though he's even less than half demon. There's also the famous examples of Gohan, Goten, and Trunks (and even Pan) from DBZ. Their only flaw in power being the fact that none of them take to fighting the same way their pure blood fathers' do, yet they have vastly more potential power in them.

So, while I respect that you personal don't see the logic in it, we can't act like this isn't well within the wheelhouse of fiction like this. And this isn't even the first time a hybrid kryptonian has proven stronger than Clark-- it's not even the first time it's been Jon. Jon Lane-Kent of the New 52 was said to already be more powerful than his father at an early age.



These are really specific leaps you're making that don't have textual backing. Whereas the idea of his power, his mental health, and hybrid nature as points of major interest for his character have years of textual backing to support it as an inextricable aspect of his character and themes surrounding him .

I would point out that while Bizarro for example is usually shown as having comparable power to Superman, Conner Kent who is only half kryptonian is weaker. So there is also a famous precedent within this world that half human and half kryptonian isn't as strong as full kryptonian. But at the end of the day, it's a difference of opinion/ taste. I personally would be very annoyed by Jon trying to replace his father and ending up as even better than him while doing the same job. Superman's mythos does not need that whatsoever.

And yes, the aspects of the character you want to explore (and the current writers I suppose) are backed up. But to me they don't make him a more unique character. They just make him harder to distinguish from Clark. He would either become far too dependant on being a reaction to Superman, or ultimately usurp Superman's entire philosophy and appeal, instead of creating his own are of action that could coexist with the definitive version of Clark. Because right now, either Jon is Superman's sidekick or he replaces Clark. I can't imagine Jon having his own moniker for example if he is defined by the things you mentioned. He will always be either Superman or Superboy.

[Superlad93]

But at the end of the day, it's a difference of opinion/ taste.

Sure. Since there's examples in either direction, it makes the whole idea rather fluid. I'm personally someone who is fine with it.

They just make him harder to distinguish from Clark. He would either become far too dependant on being a reaction to Superman, or ultimately usurp Superman's entire philosophy and appeal, instead of creating his own are of action that could coexist with the definitive version of Clark.

I don't see how. I mean, Clark life as a boy and young man were nothing even remotely close to Jon's. It was tame by comparison. The idea of Jon coming away with some emotional issues that he needs to unpack and deal with specifically because of the crazy life he's lead before even being old enough to drink, and because of the legacy he's part of is unlike anyone else in the Superman family. Jon being a "man out of time" with "no anchor" (as the writer PKJ put it) is not something Clark has had to contend with. It's all in service of distinguishing him from Clark.

And I find nothing wrong with Jon being best suited for either being Superboy or Superman. It means his character was created with a clear intent and readability. I don't question if Terry from Batman Beyond could take up another hero name. In fact, there's a lot of characters who one wouldn't wonder or care to see them take up other hero names. That's not the sign of the strength of a character, but rather the shuffling of IPs, and that's something that's largely divorced from creativity. Like, I don't care to think if Yara or Tim Fox can be named anything other than Wonder Woman (or Girl) and Batman. They were created with that intent, and they're living up to that intent. Same as Jon.

Like, can you even imagine if someone said "hey, maybe we should call Miles something other than Spider-Man?" I'd look at that person like they were crazy. He was created to be Spider-Man, and I don't care to see him as literally anything else.

[Vordan]

I'm feeling as if I'm missing so much context here, since I can't read the FS issues... but at least I take is a testament of great potential. Do we know if Superman FS is also getting a second printing ? All the others out last week do, right ?

No Supes and Flash both did not get second printings (so far anyway).

[Alpha]

Sure. Since there's examples in either direction, it makes the whole idea rather fluid. I'm personally someone who is fine with it.



I don't see how. I mean, Clark life as a boy and young man were nothing even remotely close to Jon's. It was tame by comparison. The idea of Jon coming away with some emotional issues that he needs to unpack and deal with specifically because of the crazy life he's lead before even being old enough to drink, and because of the legacy he's part of is unlike anyone else in the Superman family. Jon being a "man out of time" with "no anchor" (as the writer PKJ put it) is not something Clark has had to contend with. It's all in service of distinguishing him from Clark.

And I find nothing wrong with Jon being best suited for either being Superboy or Superman. It means his character was created with a clear intent and readability. I don't question if Terry from Batman Beyond could take up another hero name. In fact, there's a lot of characters who one wouldn't wonder or care to see them take up other hero names. That's not the sign of the strength of a character, but rather the shuffling of IPs, and that's something that's largely divorced from creativity. Like, I don't care to think if Yara or Tim Fox can be named anything other than Wonder Woman (or Girl) and Batman. They were created with that intent, and they're living up to that intent. Same as Jon.

Like, can you even imagine if someone said "hey, maybe we should call Miles something other than Spider-Man?" I'd look at that person like they were crazy. He was created to be Spider-Man, and I don't care to see him as literally anything else.

Actually I think one of the biggest issues with Miles is that while in his case he could easily be Spider-man, he won't ever accomplish his most interesting stories while Peter Parker is Spider-man. Same thing is true of Jon if he is forced into this role of the Superman in waiting.
I'm not the biggest fan of Terry Mcginnis but his origin is based on the fact that by that point in the future Bruce is too old to be Batman. Superman's physiology allows him to be Superman for at least the next 100 years, so we won't ever see a modern story where Clark has to retire, other than a plot contrivance like him being sent away from earth and Jon still being allowed here somehow (dumb idea, it should be the other way around at least).

[Frontier]

And I find nothing wrong with Jon being best suited for either being Superboy or Superman. It means his character was created with a clear intent and readability. I don't question if Terry from Batman Beyond could take up another hero name. In fact, there's a lot of characters who one wouldn't wonder or care to see them take up other hero names. That's not the sign of the strength of a character, but rather the shuffling of IPs, and that's something that's largely divorced from creativity. Like, I don't care to think if Yara or Tim Fox can be named anything other than Wonder Woman (or Girl) and Batman. They were created with that intent, and they're living up to that intent. Same as Jon.

I'm kind of wondering what the plan with Yara was because they seem to be shifting pretty quick from her being the 5G Wonder Woman to promoting her as the new Wonder Girl, right down to getting her own show with that title.

Like, can you even imagine if someone said "hey, maybe we should call Miles something other than Spider-Man?" I'd look at that person like they were crazy. He was created to be Spider-Man, and I don't care to see him as literally anything else.

Now I'm trying to imagine you in the room when they're suggesting the "Kid-Arachnid" and "Spy-D" names .

[Alpha]

I'm kind of wondering what the plan with Yara was because they seem to be shifting pretty quick from her being the 5G Wonder Woman to promoting her as the new Wonder Girl, right down to getting her own show with that title.

Now I'm trying to imagine you in the room when they're suggesting the "Kid-Arachnid" and "Spy-D" names .

I think Iron Spider would've been a decent name, although there isn't a pre existing connection to Miles.

[Frontier]

I think Iron Spider would've been a decent name, although there isn't a pre existing connection to Miles.

He also doesn't really have anything to do with Iron Man.

[Superlad93]

Actually I think one of the biggest issues with Miles is that while in his case he could easily be Spider-man, he won't ever accomplish his most interesting stories while Peter Parker is Spider-man. Same thing is true of Jon if he is forced into this role of the Superman in waiting.

Genuinely don't think I have the physical or mental ability to agree less than I already do about this.

Now I'm trying to imagine you in the room when they're suggesting the "Kid-Arachnid" and "Spy-D" names .

Whatever limp handshaking fool suggesting those names needs to be brought up at the end of every wildly popular bit of Miles media with the credit reading "and can you believe this guy DIDN'T think we could call him Spider-Man?? Please feel free to point and laugh."

[Alpha]

He also doesn't really have anything to do with Iron Man.

I'm not gonna get into a discussion about the name, just think there are decent alternatives. I mean Spider Gwen even has a cool name like Ghost Spider. Miles could have one too. But this is dragging away from the point of the thread.

[Frontier]

Whatever limp handshaking fool suggesting those names needs to be brought up at the end of every wildly popular bit of Miles media with the credit reading "and can you believe this guy DIDN'T think we could call him Spider-Man?? Please feel free to point and laugh."

Well, they got Kid-Arachnid merchandise out there so I guess they can't see it as a total loss .

Although I think it was less believing that they couldn't call him Spider-Man and more figuring out what to do about a supporting character using the same codename as the main character.

[Alpha]

Genuinely don't think I can agree less on this.

Let's put it this way, Ultimate Spider-man and Into the Spider-verse work because Peter is dead and his world needs a new Spider-man. The other Peter Parkers he meets are feom other universes so they won't stay around and both share one identity. Heck, otherwise imagine a guy on the street is saved by Miles Morales. People are gonna ask him which Spider-man saved him and he will just say "the black one".

Flash is anothee example. If Barry Allen is alive, I don't think Wally West can be Flash too. Now, my personal choice would be for Barry to be dead, or only existing in another plane of existence via the Speed Force. I also think Bart Allen becoming Kid Flash is bad, because he already had his unique identity as Impulse, and now you are dragging him into that whole mess. Fortunately that part is over.

[Superlad93]

Anyways, since I've already brought it up here, and it'll apparently be a big aspect of the upcoming Superman run (even starting in Infinite Frontier), I wonder if PKJ will use the Rucka and Bendis created Unity Project that Lois founds in her book to address Jon's mental health after the absolutely nuts life he's had?

Here's what Lois and the nun lady say about the project in the last issue of her book: "but in the very rare cases where we do (interact with alternate worlds), this fracturing of our continuity of self can be traumatic." "The Unity Project exists to help reconcile those cases of broken identity. To help those who are suffering from this fracturing to find a way to heal."

Based on what PKJ said about all the crazy multiverse and time travel that's happen to Jon literally from moment one of his life has left him as a sort of "man out of time" and "without and anchor", I'm wondering if he'll get treatment from this place? PKJ did say that he's not erasing anything from Bendis' run, and he does bring up Fraction and Ruck's books in conversation.

It would be so cool to see a superhero-- a Superman/Superboy no less getting help like this. And most of all, I love how it's upscaled so that he'd be basically getting "super therapy" for mental issues that only someone like him could have to deal with.