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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    I've seen in another thread the idea that Spiral should be retconned into being a mutant. I think that she has gone through enough retcons already. But, what do some of you guys think.

  2. #17
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    I think I'm sick and tired of everybody and the granny being mutant

    If Spiral is a bioengineered creature from Mojoworld, as she was originally conceived, let her be just this. Nothing wrong at all about it.

    If Spiral is Ricochet Rita modified by Arize, as in her 90s retcon, then let her be a modified human being.

    Please, stop turning everything and everyone in a bombastic complot, and let no mutant characters have a place in mutant titles.

  3. #18
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    I've seen in another thread the idea that Spiral should be retconned into being a mutant. I think that she has gone through enough retcons already. But, what do some of you guys think.
    No!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    I think I'm sick and tired of everybody and the granny being mutant

    If Spiral is a bioengineered creature from Mojoworld, as she was originally conceived, let her be just this. Nothing wrong at all about it.

    If Spiral is Ricochet Rita modified by Arize, as in her 90s retcon, then let her be a modified human being.

    Please, stop turning everything and everyone in a bombastic complot, and let no mutant characters have a place in mutant titles.
    Yes. Please leave her alone. The X-Books have had non-mutant cast members spanning all the way back to Mimic. It’s equally annoying when non-X-Men mutants get retconned into NOT being a mutant anymore....

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Outburstz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    I think I'm sick and tired of everybody and the granny being mutant

    Please, stop turning everything and everyone in a bombastic complot, and let no mutant characters have a place in mutant titles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    No!



    Yes. Please leave her alone. The X-Books have had non-mutant cast members spanning all the way back to Mimic. It’s equally annoying when non-X-Men mutants get retconned into NOT being a mutant anymore....
    It depends on what you want from Spiral if you just want her to show up every now and again in one or two issues every few years sure leave her the way she is, but if you want to see Spiral be around long term she has to be a mutant.

    Non mutant X-men don't tend to stick around that long even if they are cool and unique. (Warbird and Kid Gladiator <3) You are also being very hyperbolic with now all of a sudden people being ret con to being a mutant or non mutant like this hasn't happened all the time. From Cloak and Dagger to the Lupine and many more.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    It depends on what you want from Spiral if you just want her to show up every now and again in one or two issues every few years sure leave her the way she is, but if you want to see Spiral be around long term she has to be a mutant.

    Non mutant X-men don't tend to stick around that long even if they are cool and unique. (Warbird and Kid Gladiator <3) You are also being very hyperbolic with now all of a sudden people being ret con to being a mutant or non mutant like this hasn't happened all the time. From Cloak and Dagger to the Lupine and many more.
    Longshot was one of the X-men for almost three years.

    However, I actually wish Longshot and Spiral would distance themselves from the x-books. They weren’t originally x-characters... they were just taken in by Claremont. The “Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe” mini was a good step in the right direction with him, but Spiral hasn’t been given that kind of treatment yet.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Longshot was one of the X-men for almost three years.

    However, I actually wish Longshot and Spiral would distance themselves from the x-books. They weren’t originally x-characters... they were just taken in by Claremont. The “Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe” mini was a good step in the right direction with him, but Spiral hasn’t been given that kind of treatment yet.
    yea, the best she's gotten was a single issue in Uncanny X-force - sadly it had really bad artwork.

  7. #22
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    It depends on what you want from Spiral if you just want her to show up every now and again in one or two issues every few years sure leave her the way she is, but if you want to see Spiral be around long term she has to be a mutant.
    I personally always prefer my favorite characters to show less often in a right way than to show more often in a wrong way. I don't need them in every issue, not at all. I'm a B-character fan, I'm used to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    Non mutant X-men don't tend to stick around that long even if they are cool and unique. (Warbird and Kid Gladiator <3) You are also being very hyperbolic with now all of a sudden people being ret con to being a mutant or non mutant like this hasn't happened all the time. From Cloak and Dagger to the Lupine and many more.
    Back in the day humans and not-mutants were common presences in X-titles. Of course there were retcons too, but not so often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Longshot was one of the X-men for almost three years.

    However, I actually wish Longshot and Spiral would distance themselves from the x-books. They weren’t originally x-characters... they were just taken in by Claremont. The “Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe” mini was a good step in the right direction with him, but Spiral hasn’t been given that kind of treatment yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
    yea, the best she's gotten was a single issue in Uncanny X-force - sadly it had really bad artwork.
    Yeah, I too enjoyed 'Longshot saves the MU' and solo Spiral appearances. I wish there were more. Longshot would be a good character for Doc Strange titles.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outburstz View Post
    It depends on what you want from Spiral if you just want her to show up every now and again in one or two issues every few years sure leave her the way she is, but if you want to see Spiral be around long term she has to be a mutant.

    Non mutant X-men don't tend to stick around that long even if they are cool and unique. (Warbird and Kid Gladiator <3) You are also being very hyperbolic with now all of a sudden people being ret con to being a mutant or non mutant like this hasn't happened all the time. From Cloak and Dagger to the Lupine and many more.
    Hey, your the guy or lady who first made this suggestion in the Kwannon thread. Sorry to get you caught in some crossfire.
    I agree that non mutant X-Men dont always stick around. Just look at Juggernaut. But, Spiral is intended to mostly be used as an antagonist, if not outright villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Longshot was one of the X-men for almost three years.

    However, I actually wish Longshot and Spiral would distance themselves from the x-books. They weren’t originally x-characters... they were just taken in by Claremont. The “Longshot Saves the Marvel Universe” mini was a good step in the right direction with him, but Spiral hasn’t been given that kind of treatment yet.
    Longshot being an X-Man for nearly three years isn't exactly a long time. I can't say for sure how long he lasted in X-Factor off of the top of my head.
    But, two short stints as an X-character isn't exactly a long time of use. Not when you consider how long that the X-Men have been published since Longshot first joined. Hell, there were times where there were three different X-Men comics being published at the same time, as well as all of the satellite titles such as X-Factor and X-Force that were being published at the same time as all the X-Men titles.

    And I strongly disagree that Spiral should be distanced from the X-Men books. I think that we would be lucky to see her more than once or twice a decade if that happened.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    I think I'm sick and tired of everybody and the granny being mutant

    If Spiral is a bioengineered creature from Mojoworld, as she was originally conceived, let her be just this. Nothing wrong at all about it.

    If Spiral is Ricochet Rita modified by Arize, as in her 90s retcon, then let her be a modified human being.

    Please, stop turning everything and everyone in a bombastic complot, and let no mutant characters have a place in mutant titles.
    I think there was an alternate universe where she was portrayed as a Mutant (just arms and maybe some psionic resistance but no magic/teleporting powers). Mojo was just some TV executive. It was allright but the art wasn't as good - the faces all looked bad and rigid.

    I get both points but i think the tragedy and trauma of being a modified human gives a little more depth to her story.

  10. #25
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
    I think there was an alternate universe where she was portrayed as a Mutant (just arms and maybe some psionic resistance but no magic/teleporting powers). Mojo was just some TV executive. It was allright but the art wasn't as good - the faces all looked bad and rigid.
    Yeah, it was in Ultimate X-Men (Earth-1610), during Brian K. Vaughan's run. I love that arc. Actually, although it's a new interpretation, it's also my favorite version of this universe (apart from the original). I think it's very clever and interesting.

    I find surprising that you consider 'bad' Immonen's art, as I think he's in fact the perfect superheroes comic-book artist.







    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
    I get both points but i think the tragedy and trauma of being a modified human gives a little more depth to her story.
    Yeah, I've said this before several times: although it wasn't at all Nocenti's will, I think Rita/Spiral's retcon is pretty interesting.

  11. #26
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    The story itself was good - I just felt that the way the female characters were drawn was too - rough. the faces just felt jagged. Hard to put into words but after reading through a bunch of series you can definitely see the styles of artists in each series. Like I didn't even realize that Dazzler was Dazzler until someone said it.

  12. #27
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
    The story itself was good - I just felt that the way the female characters were drawn was too - rough. the faces just felt jagged.
    Definitely a matter of taste. To me, Stuart Immonen is a superb artist, being one of the reasons that he draws men and women in a similar way (just like they are in the real world). But of course you may think completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
    Like I didn't even realize that Dazzler was Dazzler until someone said it.
    LOL, that was because any similarity to 616 Dazzler was merely coincidental.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    Definitely a matter of taste. To me, Stuart Immonen is a superb artist, being one of the reasons that he draws men and women in a similar way (just like they are in the real world). But of course you may think completely different.



    LOL, that was because any similarity to 616 Dazzler was merely coincidental.
    Yea - I noticed that most artists tend to use the same base face with most of the female characters. It's their style.

    The artist that does Mauraders (Lolli?) likes to accentuate the lips and has puffier cheeks

    Pepe Larraz has a distinct paintbrush line art style. I really like it but you can always tell the art is him right away.

    Land - traces his work from... movie stars.

    Baldeon loves to draw eyes looking up. ALL THE TIME

    I feel like Carlos Gomez who did X-Factor #4 has a nice simple comic book art style - like what I imagine the 'standard' characters being.

    Phil Noto (Cable series) has a distinct water color feel

    I also really liked Sana Takeda's work on x-23. It looks really pretty zoomed out but zoomed in you can see the rougher line work and coloring.


    There's more but I guess the point is - you can just see the different styles. I didn't mean to say it's the worst, just that I didn't prefer this specific style.

  14. #29
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostfire View Post
    There's more but I guess the point is - you can just see the different styles. I didn't mean to say it's the worst, just that I didn't prefer this specific style.
    Absolutely. What's great about artists is that they're different and varied, recognizable in their own style --and sometimes even unique. I find really annoying when a certain trend corners the industry and every artist draws identical.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    Absolutely. What's great about artists is that they're different and varied, recognizable in their own style --and sometimes even unique. I find really annoying when a certain trend corners the industry and every artist draws identical.
    While we're talking about artists and art style, what did you think of Uncanny X-Force (2013) #12? To my knowledge it's the only issue solely focused on Spiral - and the art was really disappointing to me. That was one of my least favorite art styles. I did look up the artist and they worked on Ms Marvel and it did look better so I guess their artwork got better over time.

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