So, how SHOULD the BatVerse have been rebooted for the New 52?

[Zainu]

BATMAN INC closes the old continuity. Now for my (sort of) hard reboot.

BATMAN would take place in the present, DETECTIVE COMICS would be set in Batman's early days ala ACTION COMICS.

Batman has been around for 10 or so years. Richard Grayson was Robin for about 7 years. He was a cop on Gordon's squad, who discovered Batman's ID and joined his crusade. His ID would be Bruce Wayne's bodyguard. They would be rather close in age, and more like brothers. No circus, though it would be mentioned that he comes from a family of performers. Eventually they'd have a falling out when Bruce decides to take in a kid named Jason Todd. Richard doesn't want kids involved, he takes off and becomes Nightwing. Nightwing would be the "poor man's Batman".

Jason is trained by Batman for about a year, but goes too far and begins getting more and more ruthless. He's beaten badly by the Joker, but survives and goes out after the Joker to kill him. Batman stops him, and kicks him to the curb. He goes off on his own, and eventually becomes the murderous vigilante known as the Red Hood. Maybe he doesn't even know Batman's ID and only ever saw the Cave. He would pop up eventually, but not right away. We'd just have mention that Bruce did have a second Robin for a few months but it failed completely.

Batman goes solo for about a year before meeting Cassandra Cain, who beats him in hand to hand combat. He decides to let her operate as his "agent" BATGIRL, but not a sidekick. Eventually he'd adopt her. This would be seen to the public as just another rich guy taking in foreign orphans.

Damian would come in later on, maybe in year two or three of the NEW 52. His origin wouldn't involve test tubes, and he'd be born and raised the good ole fashioned way.

Not sure how I'd fit Barbara Gordon in. I'd like her to be Oracle, but I'd ditch the BATGIRL stuff most likely. She could run the BIRDS OF PREY with Cass Cain (Batgirl), Black Canary, and Huntress. She'd also have a on/off relationship with Richard.

So we'd have Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl, Oracle, Red Hood, and eventually Damien as Robin.

Mmn-hmn. Yeah, for the Batfamily, this is the best overall plan.

[Carabas]

Problem is, nobody really creates good new characters these days . . . you usually get ten losers before someone creates someone worthwhile.

How many of the New 52 villains created at the beginning do you think will be ever mentioned again in the next few years?

And if you want to talk about new characters DC has created before that had staying power, are you thinking those created for Bloodlines or Planet DC?

It appears to be hard to create new characters that readers will embrace . . . sometimes readers aren't all that open to change, either.

I don't think people created better characters in days of yore than they do now. And yes, sure, Bloodlines, if an editorial edict forces a writer to come up with some new characters, like now, this instant, you're not going to get a lot of good material. Still, my favourite DC series of all times, Hitman, was spawned from Bloodlines, so there's that.

Generally, there's only one thing that seperates an old character and a new one: nostalgia. I think a lot of those old characters are just plain terrible. Poison Ivy was only ever interesting when Greg Rucka basically completely altered her into a brandnew character. Same with Two-Face. Does anybody really want the loon that is obsessed with crimes relating to the number two back?
Both Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown are easily as good characters as Barbara Gordon. And to me they were both more interesting as Batgirl than Babs.

Maybe it's because I didn't grow up with these characters, I was a very late convert, I for the most part do not have this attachment to the relics of the golden age. I didn't grow up with them. I encountered the newer characters and the old ones at the same time, and quite often found the old guard lacking.

[Carabas]

They shouldn't have lobotomized Catwoman

They what now? Cutting out her heart wasn't enough?

[John Venus]

I'd definitely want some new characters to be created eventually, but Bats has such a large rogues gallery already that it isn't really necessary. Even if you just limit it to the pre-Crisis villains, we haven't gotten any interesting new stories with the likes of Dr. Phosphorous, Killer Moth, Calendar Man, the Monk, the Terrible Trio, Cavalier, Blockbuster, and many others in years. The Joker is too played out, but we don't need to invent new rogues when we got some great ones just sitting there collecting dust.

We also need to end the trend of the new, big, ultimate villain who knows everything about Bruce, attacks him psychologically and becoming his arch-nemesis for 5 minutes before the next one comes along. Just ditch all the pretenders and bring back Hugo Strange if that type of story needs to be told again.

I agree. Another thing that needs to be stopped is Gotham getting destroyed or suffering from mass deaths. From Knightfall to Contagion to Cataclysm to No Man's Land to War Games to Battle for the Cowl to whatever Snyder's doing right now. The idea has played out. Try something new! I am surprised that Gotham has a population of more than 2 at this point.

[John Venus]

Cutest idea on this thread!

Thanks!

Out of all the Bat Family members, I think Cass would be the easiest to fit into in any era of the Bat Family. Batwoman too but that's because she has her own little corner of the DCU to play in.

[John Venus]

They what now? Cutting out her heart wasn't enough?

Yes. This time they put her brain in a jar whilst her body is being controlled by a super villain to fight Batman.

[wvchemteach]

1. Zero Year as Snyder is telling it in Batman.

2. Year 1: Batman joins the Justice League and is no longer an urban legend. Dick Grayson's parents are murdered. Towards the end of this year he begins operating as Robin.

2. Year 2: Batwoman and Batgirl appear in Gotham. Bruce quickly figures out who they are and immediately uses his connections and influence to help hide Kate's activities from probing eyes without her knowing. At first he tries to discourage Batgirl, but Dick behind his back encourages and he reluctantly supports her with top notch gear. Robin is introduced to the Justice League and forms a friendship with Cyborg. Through Cyborg's connections they track down other younger heroes and form the original Teen Titans consisting of Robin, Cyborg, Arsenal, Starfire, Omen and a handful of others.

3. Year 3: Bruce takes in Jason Todd and begins training him to replace Dick as Robin who is heading off to college. Dick and Bruce part ways amicably and Dick turns over the Robin mantle to Jason and becomes Nightwing.

4. Year 4: Jason is killed by the Joker and Barbara is wounded (although not as severely as in pre-52) during one of the Joker's rampages. The Teen Titans part ways, some amicably, others not so much.

5. Year 5: Bruce reluctantly takes Tim on as the 3rd Robin. Events of Knightfall occur and Dick fills in as Batman in a combination of events of the Prodigal storyline with Morrison's run. Damian comes onto the scene and initially works with Dick as Bruce recovers. Once recovered Dick and Bruce both operate as Batman for a time, Dick with Damian. Tim transitions to Red Robin. Jason returns in the Under the Hood events.

6. Year 6: Starting Year of the New 52. Dick decides to return to being Nightwing, Damian partners with his father. Bruce launches Batman Inc. Tim recruits his own version of the Teen Titans. Jason teams up with Kori and Roy to form the Outlaws.

[Carabas]

Yes. This time they put her brain in a jar whilst her body is being controlled by a super villain to fight Batman.

Which writer is responsible for this?

[The Man From Room X]

Zero Year : Bruce Wayne becomes Batman.

Five Years Later :



I don't care how it's done, as long as we get there ^^

[Aliltron]

I would have had it with Bruce, Dick, and Babs to start.

[exile001]

Here is the New 52 timeline as I see it:

Year Zero as is. I hope this ends with Bruce heading to the circus.

Year 1 to 2.5: Dick as Robin. The whole 'Batman as a loner' thing is a myth anyway. He was solo for about a year before Robin was originally introduced. That's, like, three weeks in modern continuity time so there's no need for Zero Year and year 1 to be without a Robin.

Year 2.5: Barbara becomes Batgirl.

Year 3.5: Jason, he lasts about six months before he is killed by Joker. Barbara is shot by Joker.

Year 4: Tim figures out Bruce Wayne is Batman and becomes Red Robin. Barbara becomes Oracle(?).

Year 4.5: Batwoman debuts. Jason returns, becomes Red Hood.

Year 5.5: Damien shows up, becomes Robin two to three months later.

Year 6 (current): Damien dies. Stephanie Brown becomes Spoiler.

[John Venus]

Which writer is responsible for this?

Brian Azzarello and Dan Jurgens for Futures End.

Basically;

spoilers:

Relax man. I am just pulling your leg. There is no such story with Catwoman's brain in a jar and her body fighting Batman. Just messing with ya! XD

end of spoilers

[MajorHoy]

Thanks!

Out of all the Bat Family members, I think Cass would be the easiest to fit into in any era of the Bat Family.

Just borrow what they did with Katana in Beware the Batman.

[Alan2099]

Does anybody really want the loon that is obsessed with crimes relating to the number two back?

... I do...

[SiegePerilous02]

I agree there. That seems to be Synder's cup of tea.

In fairness, it was kind of Morrison's cup of tea too. That was basically the who deal with Dr. Hurt and the Black Glove.

I don't think people created better characters in days of yore than they do now. And yes, sure, Bloodlines, if an editorial edict forces a writer to come up with some new characters, like now, this instant, you're not going to get a lot of good material. Still, my favourite DC series of all times, Hitman, was spawned from Bloodlines, so there's that.

Generally, there's only one thing that seperates an old character and a new one: nostalgia. I think a lot of those old characters are just plain terrible. Poison Ivy was only ever interesting when Greg Rucka basically completely altered her into a brandnew character. Same with Two-Face. Does anybody really want the loon that is obsessed with crimes relating to the number two back?
Both Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown are easily as good characters as Barbara Gordon. And to me they were both more interesting as Batgirl than Babs.

Maybe it's because I didn't grow up with these characters, I was a very late convert, I for the most part do not have this attachment to the relics of the golden age. I didn't grow up with them. I encountered the newer characters and the old ones at the same time, and quite often found the old guard lacking.

I think the nostalgia thing is kind of a strawman argument, to be honest. I was born in '89, and didn't seriously start getting into the wider DC universe until about 6-7 years ago or so, so I didn't grow up with the Silver/Bronze age comics. But I still find myself vastly preferring the old school characters and concepts to new ones.

For example, I still really like Morrison's villains. They have cool designs, gimmicks and the archetypal ideas they represent are very fascinating. But none of them feel like real, fleshed out individuals. Most of them are just one-note loons spouting off whatever weird ideas Morrison is into at the time. Professor Pyg's rantings can lead to some very interesting background reading, but he himself is just a nutter who is weird for the sake of being weird. Flamingo dresses like Prince and eats faces, and that's all. And Dr. Hurt just bombards us with talk of being the devil or whatever, but has little personality beyond that.

Two-Face, when he's written well (sadly, not as often as I would like), manages to be both archetypal and a fully fleshed out person. He represents the struggle between good and evil in a man's soul, he's a friend to Bruce/Batman, which adds a layer of tragedy to his transformation and gives Bruce (and us) a reason to care about his condition, and I've encountered many fans who can relate to his history of child abuse. He has/had a wife and a career, and struggled with his inner demons and lost. That's something a lot of us can relate to on some level, and why he continues to resonate with so many generations of fans. His legacy is going to endure far longer than the likes of Dr. Hurt, Pyg and the Club of Villains.

... I do...

*high fives*