Magic Pill

[big_adventure]

I decided a big ‘No’ on Lucifer, Michael, Spectre etc. That’s an almost primal heavenly power.

Neron, maybe though.

(Which my phone wanted to change to Enron, and I suppose that was almost equally as unholy.)

Pretty much in agreement. I'd also put pretty much any skyfather level being up there out of reach as well. Their power, even if it's sometimes called magic, isn't really that.

Someone like Tayschrenn or Quick Ben from Malazan would work, though their magic, while powerful as hell (Tay could probably waste, say, the British Isles, with a cast), is somewhat less all-purpose than Strange or Fate or Samantha from Bewitched.

[Sharpandpointies]

Pretty much in agreement. I'd also put pretty much any skyfather level being up there out of reach as well. Their power, even if it's sometimes called magic, isn't really that.

Someone like Tayschrenn or Quick Ben from Malazan would work, though their magic, while powerful as hell (Tay could probably waste, say, the British Isles, with a cast), is somewhat less all-purpose than Strange or Fate or Samantha from Bewitched.

That's the problem with Malazan magic. It's powerful as crap-all, but somewhat lacking in versatility. Yeah, some of the Warrens/Holds can do weird stuff, but for the most part they're good for 'killing stuff really dead'.

[The MunchKING]

I'm running Scion 2e game right now. My players are about to make the jump to Demigod. Nice to see another fan in the wild

Much as I'd like to play, Scion games never seem to last long on RPOL.

[big_adventure]

That's the problem with Malazan magic. It's powerful as crap-all, but somewhat lacking in versatility. Yeah, some of the Warrens/Holds can do weird stuff, but for the most part they're good for 'killing stuff really dead'.

Malazan Warren magic: Denul for healing, Mockra for mind games, Thyr for light and light-based illusions, everything else for blowing things up.

Ben (especially) and Tayschrenn do a lot of really crazy stuff with prep, but even that would be of limited real-world use. Transplanting an insane, murderous ancient soul into a puppet is cool and all and building a dimensional gateway with a recall in case you are in danger because you want to taunt a god is interesting, but not really anything I'd even WANT to do. Making magic rocks that let me communicate with someone across the world is a little silly in the world of mobile phones.

Magic like Rand Al'Thor or one of the Foresaken would be cool - healing is there, protection is there, effective immortality is there (chanellers who don't use an Oath Rod live for thousands of years), but it's not even called magic in the series so I don't know if you could apply it.

[Sharpandpointies]

Malazan Warren magic: Denul for healing, Mockra for mind games, Thyr for light and light-based illusions, everything else for blowing things up.

Ben has used D'riss to move through stone walls, so there's that.

Ben (especially) and Tayschrenn do a lot of really crazy stuff with prep, but even that would be of limited real-world use. Transplanting an insane, murderous ancient soul into a puppet is cool and all and building a dimensional gateway with a recall in case you are in danger because you want to taunt a god is interesting, but not really anything I'd even WANT to do. Making magic rocks that let me communicate with someone across the world is a little silly in the world of mobile phones.

Basically Malazan magic is good for killing stuff, but there are a lot of magic systems that do just as well or better for the killing. It's less-good for anything BUT killing, and there are a whole lot of magic systems that are far more versatile.

I like Malazan stuff, but if someone said 'Their magic or [name any number of more versatile magical systems]' I know what I'm going with.

Magic like Rand Al'Thor or one of the Foresaken would be cool - healing is there, protection is there, effective immortality is there (chanellers who don't use an Oath Rod live for thousands of years), but it's not even called magic in the series so I don't know if you could apply it.

It's cool, but again, the question becomes 'is it magic?'. If we name it magic, so is The Force. Or certain kinds of psychic powers from different series. Or... Granted, it shares more of magic 'characteristics' than those do, down to the point of having the functional equivalent of 'spells', but.

And again, there are a whole lot of magical systems that may be/may not be as good at killing stuff, but are better for Doing Whatever You Want™. ^_^

Not to say that people shouldn't choose these systems, or that it's not smart to do so - 'because I think they're cool' is a perfectly valid reason to do so. It's just that for myself, a system that's optimized towards 'blowing **** up' is far less appealing than a system that can be used for 'living one's best life while not killing everyone'.

...not to say that Anima magic can't fire off effects easily on the level of Malazan stuff, but there are a whole lot more uses than that, all the way down to 'simple spells to clean your house, provide food and drink, do your work, etc'. The various paths, sub-paths, and free (non-path-linked) spells cover an extremely wide range of effects.

[Tami]

I think, for me, it would be a good idea to go with something that can be used practically in real life, can be done without any dramatic flourishes, and is versatile, with as few strings attached as possible.

[big_adventure]

Ben has used D'riss to move through stone walls, so there's that.



Basically Malazan magic is good for killing stuff, but there are a lot of magic systems that do just as well or better for the killing. It's less-good for anything BUT killing, and there are a whole lot of magic systems that are far more versatile.

I like Malazan stuff, but if someone said 'Their magic or [name any number of more versatile magical systems]' I know what I'm going with.



It's cool, but again, the question becomes 'is it magic?'. If we name it magic, so is The Force. Or certain kinds of psychic powers from different series. Or... Granted, it shares more of magic 'characteristics' than those do, down to the point of having the functional equivalent of 'spells', but.

And again, there are a whole lot of magical systems that may be/may not be as good at killing stuff, but are better for Doing Whatever You Want™. ^_^

Not to say that people shouldn't choose these systems, or that it's not smart to do so - 'because I think they're cool' is a perfectly valid reason to do so. It's just that for myself, a system that's optimized towards 'blowing **** up' is far less appealing than a system that can be used for 'living one's best life while not killing everyone'.

...not to say that Anima magic can't fire off effects easily on the level of Malazan stuff, but there are a whole lot more uses than that, all the way down to 'simple spells to clean your house, provide food and drink, do your work, etc'. The various paths, sub-paths, and free (non-path-linked) spells cover an extremely wide range of effects.

Outside of not knowing Anima, I couldn't agree more.

Other things that could be silly effective would be the system in the Belgariad - no spells, no incantations, just focus your will and say a word. Well, you know, except when Eddings forgets all of that and makes it work without words, or when summoning demons comes into play. Except then. And of course, it's not exactly "magic" as again, it's not strictly called that.

I think, for me, it would be a good idea to go with something that can be used practically in real life, can be done without any dramatic flourishes, and is versatile, with a few strings attached as possible.

Exactly this - again, heading back to "Bewitched" type of magic.

[Sharpandpointies]

I think, for me, it would be a good idea to go with something that can be used practically in real life, can be done without any dramatic flourishes, and is versatile, with a few strings attached as possible.

Sounds good.

Anima magic DOES need to have gestures and spoken incantations...for fast use. If one takes their time casting, though, it requires none of those (2x the time to ignore one component, 4x the time for both). And if one Chimerizes oneself - makes oneself into a magical, immortal-yet-still-living being - it's pretty easy to get the advantages 'gestureless casting' and 'unspoken casting', and there you go, zero issues with incantations and gestures. ^_^

Outside of not knowing Anima, I couldn't agree more.

Other things that could be silly effective would be the system in the Belgariad - no spells, no incantations, just focus your will and say a word. Well, you know, except when Eddings forgets all of that and makes it work without words, or when summoning demons comes into play. Except then. And of course, it's not exactly "magic" as again, it's not strictly called that.

That's another good one (the demon summoning thing is a separate system of magic in the same world, though it's possible to know both systems - Belgarath does, as does Beldin). Granted, there are downsides to the Will and the Word (basically only one, but please don't make that mistake, it's a biggie) and certainly for demon summoning (but if you have the Will and the Word, it's totally unnecessary to ever DO the demon summoning).

Anima magic Edit: SORCERY, there are other kinds of magic in Anima - is somewhat similar to D&D magic in that it's a whole lot of spells. But the spells are more formally codified into paths, and unlike D&D magic don't need to be prepared or anything - you have a certain amount of magical power in your body, you can use that to cast your spells (and more powerful versions of them depending on how much energy you put into them), and must gather ('accumulate') your magical power to use it. A low level sorcerer can take some time to cast a simple spell, while higher level ones just rattle them off, sometimes three or four simultaneously, and can easily cast higher power spells more quickly. There are TONS of spells - literally hundreds - sorted into different Paths (four elements, light, dark, essence, illusion, necromancy, creation, destruction), sub-paths (like time, sin, void, chaos, knowledge - yes, knowledge, and all kinds of other stuff) and 'free access spells' that are generic kinds of magic anyone can learn (yep, some is for fighting, but others stuff is really, really pedestrian kinds of things, like 'housecleaning' and 'get good sleep' and even 'contraceptive'). Then each path/sub-path has High magic and Divine magic level spells, that even the best of the best can't access unless they actually are magical beings or 'divine' level magical beings - these spells are truly ridiculous, altering reality in wide areas (country/continental in some occasions), changing things forever, fiddling with the laws of the universe, etc.

Most Sorcerers/Warlocks know one or two paths, maybe one subpath, some free access spells, that kind of thing. Elthedrea, the First Sorceress, knows ALL of them, and is ridiculously powerful even by Anima standards, on the level of people who ruin entire countries just as collateral if they fought each other (edit: actually, she's a touch past those dudes, as I recall). Which is why I'm going with her rather than, say, Dr. Strange, who is more powerful than her in terms of brute-forcing things. For all of his might, Strange can't make other people immortal and magically gifted, or resurrect them from the dead.

Elthedrea also most certainly has some 'magical powers' beyond the spells - things specific to her being an immortal, ridiculously ancient being who has been through all kinds of crap in her long, long life - that would be granted by this Pill as well (since they are 'magic').

Edit: Now that I consider that last part, I strongly doubt I would even NEED to Chimerize myself and become a magical being - immortality and magical nature would likely come free with Elthedrea's magical powers. I'd just need to do that for the people/beings I want to keep around. ^_^

[bruceleegreyhulk]

since I choose Shang Tsung. That means I can control fire, open portals, and shape shift ( Hmm does Shang Tsung use magic to shape shift?)

[big_adventure]

That's another good one (the demon summoning thing is a separate system of magic in the same world, though it's possible to know both systems - Belgarath does, as does Beldin). Granted, there are downsides to the Will and the Word (basically only one, but please don't make that mistake, it's a biggie) and certainly for demon summoning (but if you have the Will and the Word, it's totally unnecessary to ever DO the demon summoning).

And to be honest, there is no way one would ever make the mistake that Ctuchik makes and that Belgarath warned Garion about, unless the writer decided that you needed to make it. "Giant ball of fire" or "your blood is lava" or "you are now in orbit around the moon" or, as shown since the Word doesn't need to actually relate to the action at all, "pew pew" would all be juuuuust fine and more likely then "be not." I feel Eddings wrote the setup and then got stuck when he had to implement it.

The Anima stuff sounds foolishly potent and flexible.

[Sharpandpointies]

And to be honest, there is no way one would ever make the mistake that Ctuchik makes and that Belgarath warned Garion about, unless the writer decided that you needed to make it. "Giant ball of fire" or "your blood is lava" or "you are now in orbit around the moon" or, as shown since the Word doesn't need to actually relate to the action at all, "pew pew" would all be juuuuust fine and more likely then "be not." I feel Eddings wrote the setup and then got stuck when he had to implement it.

Oh, absolutely. It's absolute BS that the first thing that would jump into Ctuchik's mind is the one thing that he has drilled himself NOT TO DO for his entire, multi-thousand year career or whatever. Eddings just wanted to end that particular scene that way. I was really young when I read the series, and even then I stopped reading, stared at a wall, and said 'Why?'

The Anima stuff sounds foolishly potent and flexible.

It is. it does have some limitations, the biggest systemic thing being once you've burned through your mystic energy, it takes like DAYS to fully come back. You get some of it back every day, but not a bucketload. Which is a problem on a world where things can happen and keep happening (mages need to decide how fast they want to burn through it, because if stuff goes down tomorrow and you have only enough power left for a Royal Shield and a couple of Light Beams or a Seeking Sphere spell, you're in trouble), but here? If I run low because for whatever reason I've used a ton of magic recently, I can wait a few days and be fine, no worries.

Extended duration spells eat into the daily return of magical energy as well - keep 'em going for a day or more, and they siphon a specific amount each day. If that amount is above what normally comes back to you on a daily basis...well, you're in a deficit.

The other big limitation is setting-based, involving a Church that's pretty good at figuring out when people are using magic, then sending supernaturally potent Inquisitors (and their flunkies) to go kill the **** out of that mage. So mages learn to be subtle and not use magic to solve all of their problems.

It's all very well and good to be some Archmage capable of destroying entire armies, but then High Inquisitor Romeo Exxet turns up on your doorstep with his buddy Alexias, the Exterminator Angel, and it's lights out for good. Granted, not something Elthedrea can't handle with difficulty, but the point is that even the supremely powerful mages need to tread lightly, due to the Inquisition and also their peers (other potent beings) probably getting upset if they start carpet-bombing countries.

Again, not so much a problem on this world.

[big_adventure]

Oh, absolutely. It's absolute BS that the first thing that would jump into Ctuchik's mind is the one thing that he has drilled himself NOT TO DO for his entire, multi-thousand year career or whatever. Eddings just wanted to end that particular scene that way. I was really young when I read the series, and even then I stopped reading, stared at a wall, and said 'Why?'

That basically exactly mirrors my reaction. I think that was in book 3 perhaps, or 4 (I also read this when pretty young mid or young teens certainly), and I put the book down for at least a day or two after it happened. I'd really been enjoying it up until then, and even now, I don't like putting books down.

It is. it does have some limitations, the biggest systemic thing being once you've burned through your mystic energy, it takes like DAYS to fully come back. You get some of it back every day, but not a bucketload. Which is a problem on a world where things can happen and keep happening (mages need to decide how fast they want to burn through it, because if stuff goes down tomorrow and you have only enough power left for a Royal Shield and a couple of Light Beams or a Seeking Sphere spell, you're in trouble), but here? If I run low because for whatever reason I've used a ton of magic recently, I can wait a few days and be fine, no worries.

Extended duration spells eat into the daily return of magical energy as well - keep 'em going for a day or more, and they siphon a specific amount each day. If that amount is above what normally comes back to you on a daily basis...well, you're in a deficit.

The other big limitation is setting-based, involving a Church that's pretty good at figuring out when people are using magic, then sending supernaturally potent Inquisitors (and their flunkies) to go kill the **** out of that mage. So mages learn to be subtle and not use magic to solve all of their problems.

It's all very well and good to be some Archmage capable of destroying entire armies, but then High Inquisitor Romeo Exxet turns up on your doorstep with his buddy Alexias, the Exterminator Angel, and it's lights out for good. Granted, not something Elthedrea can't handle with difficulty, but the point is that even the supremely powerful mages need to tread lightly, due to the Inquisition and also their peers (other potent beings) probably getting upset if they start carpet-bombing countries.

Again, not so much a problem on this world.

That's a really good point that applies so often in stories, primarily as a tool to ensure that people can't just power their way out of problems. In the Belgariad, for example, sorcerers can all (apparently) sense each other using their powers, so they mostly don't, to avoid letting others find them with impunity. In Wheel of Time, channelers can, with more or less difficulty depending on ability level and sex (women can precisely see if a woman is holding the source, and can see exactly what they are doing, but can't see anything on a man - men can detect men or women channeling, but can't see details about it), detect other channelers when they do their thing.

Any of those things wouldn't matter in our world because the vast majority don't believe magic exists, and nobody would know how to detect it. As long as you avoided being too stupid, you're good with anything. I would generally be against mind-whammying anyone, but if you could do it without harm and just to protect yourself and those you love, erasing the memory of someone seeing me manipulate reality might be a thing.

[Sharpandpointies]

That basically exactly mirrors my reaction. I think that was in book 3 perhaps, or 4 (I also read this when pretty young mid or young teens certainly), and I put the book down for at least a day or two after it happened. I'd really been enjoying it up until then, and even now, I don't like putting books down.

Book three. Magician's Gambit. Ctuchik being the 'magician' in question.

That's a really good point that applies so often in stories, primarily as a tool to ensure that people can't just power their way out of problems. In the Belgariad, for example, sorcerers can all (apparently) sense each other using their powers, so they mostly don't, to avoid letting others find them with impunity. In Wheel of Time, channelers can, with more or less difficulty depending on ability level and sex (women can precisely see if a woman is holding the source, and can see exactly what they are doing, but can't see anything on a man - men can detect men or women channeling, but can't see details about it), detect other channelers when they do their thing.

Any of those things wouldn't matter in our world because the vast majority don't believe magic exists, and nobody would know how to detect it. As long as you avoided being too stupid, you're good with anything. I would generally be against mind-whammying anyone, but if you could do it without harm and just to protect yourself and those you love, erasing the memory of someone seeing me manipulate reality might be a thing.

Exactly. And there are tons of ways - between the Illusion path, the path of Darkness, the subpath of Nobility, the path of Destruction and others - to either mask what one is doing, convince others they didn't see anything, or even (as you note) destroy that memory.

With nobody but myself and anyone to whom I grant 'The Gift' capable of actually SENSING magic, no worries.

[big_adventure]

Book three. Magician's Gambit. Ctuchik being the 'magician' in question.

Don't call him that. You KNOW that's the worst insult you can level at a sorcerer because REASONS.

[Sharpandpointies]

Don't call him that. You KNOW that's the worst insult you can level at a sorcerer because REASONS.

Makes them sound like street-corner charlatans, doing sleight of hand. I guess.

I'm not really an Eddings fan, frankly, so by all means, continue with the trashing.