2021 Mary Elizabeth "Bette" Kane | Bat-Girl & Flamebird Appreciation

[MajorHoy]

Yeah I said that earlier. I was just pointing out that it's not a ridiculous idea to have a character named Flamebird in a team book. That Kandor series was kinda like a 2-person team. Kara's been in a lot of team books as Supergirl too. And Betta has been in team books too So it makes sense to do more of that.

But does it make sense to have a non-Kryptonian with no real previous connections to Krypton/the Superman Family to call herself Flamebird?

[marhawkman]

But does it make sense to have a non-Kryptonian with no real previous connections to Krypton/the Superman Family to call herself Flamebird?

How much does she hang out with Dick Grayson?

[MajorHoy]

How much does she hang out with Dick Grayson?

How much did she hang out with with Dick Grayson prior to becoming "Flamebird"?

[Artemisfanboy]

How much did she hang out with with Dick Grayson prior to becoming "Flamebird"?

That would depend on if you want to acknowledge her Bat-Girl career, like Peter David in Young Justice or Grant Morrison during his run, or if you want to pretend that those 50's-early 60's comics don't count. I like to take the side of "They count" and she got the same source of inspiration for her Flamebird ID as Dick got for his Nightwing with being told tales of the Kryptonian heroes Nightwing and Flamebird.

And in any case, the name Flamebird makes for a nice parallel with Nightwing and sounds better than "Hawkfire". And Hawkfire is too similar to the name Firehawk which belongs to another character.

[Tsukiakari1203]

But does it make sense to have a non-Kryptonian with no real previous connections to Krypton/the Superman Family to call herself Flamebird?

there's an issue of Man of Steel where Clark and Lois go to krypton and clark mentions having told bette the story

[MajorHoy]

there's an issue of Man of Steel where Clark and Lois go to krypton

They went to a planet that no longer existed?

and clark mentions having told bette the story

And Clark/Superman knew Bette from . . . backyard barbecues or something? Wednesday night bridge tournaments?

[Artemisfanboy]

They went to a planet that no longer existed?

I believe it was a recreation of Krypton made by brainiac within the Phantom Zone and Clark and loiis thought they had time traveled back in time to Krypton.

And Clark/Superman knew Bette from . . . backyard barbecues or something? Wednesday night bridge tournaments?

This would have been around the time of Peter David's Young justice issue where she briefly implies having been Bat-Girl, so the answer would be "writers becoming more willing to flirt with acknowledging Batwoman and Bat-Girl existed" and he would have met her during that time.

Young Justice #21-July 2000(Bette's "Batgirl, eh? Been there, done that" line)
Superman Man of Steel #111-April 2001(Mention of Clark having told both Bette and Dick the story of Nightwing and Flamebird)

[signalman112]

Bat-Girl swings into action.

Bat-GirlSwings.jpg

[Oberon]

i have also thought it was odd how badly dc mistreats her but she doesn't have a strong fanbase like steph and cass have so dc not caring makes sense

Truly sad and ironic as it sees Spoiler, Steph, is a new version or similar type character.

[Oberon]

In 'comic-time' Bette has held the Flamebird title the longest, other than the original Kandor/Krypton legends of Flamebird.

Nightwing is, in that regard, the natural 'other half' but for reasons various, editorial would rather keep them separate.

retcons are retcons, they can be anything until something else (Magneto being the father of Wanda and Pietro, and them not even being mutants any longer, for example)

So we have a sense that a bored or unappreciated child of a Kane brother spent a summer or so visiting her aunt, by marriage in Gotham.
She went on to develop athletic skills and was a minor celebrity in her right.
But eventually wanted to adventure again.
But than Crisis happened and various parts of a lot of people's lives were rearranged.
Nonetheless, she persisted in wanting to be bigger than herself; and thus became Flamebird, even before Dick had adopted Nightwing, how curious!

Because the story Superman told Lois about Dick and Bette, and NW and FB left out some facts.
Why or how did Supes get to talk to these youngsters?
My guess is that after the events of the Silver Age classic "Prisoners of Three Worlds" which was retconned by Morrison to show that many of Batman's adventures were the result of hallucinogenic gases.
Whether every detail of that story is true, what could be true is that there were 'alien' components to the gases. Somehow, perhaps, Bette, being the youngest of the Batfamily at that time, had problems recovering and so Batman consulted with Superman (alien stuff, after all) and the Batfamily went to the Fortress where Superman helped purge the particles or whatever.
Later she saw the NW/FB statues, strolling along with Robin, and Superman told them both the details.
But maybe he hypnotised to forget all this (Bruce and Kathy were queesy about Bette knowing stuff, afterall)

and that is why she vanished for years. Till something brought her out of it. (cue dramatic music)

The End, except, I too like the idea of a flamethrower adaptation for her.

[marhawkman]

In 'comic-time' Bette has held the Flamebird title the longest, other than the original Kandor/Krypton legends of Flamebird.

Nightwing is, in that regard, the natural 'other half' but for reasons various, editorial would rather keep them separate.

retcons are retcons, they can be anything until something else (Magneto being the father of Wanda and Pietro, and them not even being mutants any longer, for example)

So we have a sense that a bored or unappreciated child of a Kane brother spent a summer or so visiting her aunt, by marriage in Gotham.
She went on to develop athletic skills and was a minor celebrity in her right.
But eventually wanted to adventure again.
But than Crisis happened and various parts of a lot of people's lives were rearranged.
Nonetheless, she persisted in wanting to be bigger than herself; and thus became Flamebird, even before Dick had adopted Nightwing, how curious!

Because the story Superman told Lois about Dick and Bette, and NW and FB left out some facts.
Why or how did Supes get to talk to these youngsters?
My guess is that after the events of the Silver Age classic "Prisoners of Three Worlds" which was retconned by Morrison to show that many of Batman's adventures were the result of hallucinogenic gases.
Whether every detail of that story is true, what could be true is that there were 'alien' components to the gases. Somehow, perhaps, Bette, being the youngest of the Batfamily at that time, had problems recovering and so Batman consulted with Superman (alien stuff, after all) and the Batfamily went to the Fortress where Superman helped purge the particles or whatever.
Later she saw the NW/FB statues, strolling along with Robin, and Superman told them both the details.
But maybe he hypnotised to forget all this (Bruce and Kathy were queesy about Bette knowing stuff, afterall)

and that is why she vanished for years. Till something brought her out of it. (cue dramatic music)

The End, except, I too like the idea of a flamethrower adaptation for her.

Yeah comics does this a lot and it drives people nuts trying to figure out HOW the backstories actually work.

As a writer you just can't fill in ALL the blanks. Answers often lead to more questions. You kinda have to decide which ones aren't important and skip those. The full story of where Bette got the Flamebird name... hasn't been told yet, because it would probably need it's own book to do it right.

[Digifiend]

So we have a sense that a bored or unappreciated child of a Kane brother spent a summer or so visiting her aunt, by marriage in Gotham.
She went on to develop athletic skills and was a minor celebrity in her right.
But eventually wanted to adventure again.
But than Crisis happened and various parts of a lot of people's lives were rearranged.
Nonetheless, she persisted in wanting to be bigger than herself; and thus became Flamebird, even before Dick had adopted Nightwing, how curious!

Dick became Nightwing two years before the Crisis. So, Bette didn't become Flamebird before he became Nightwing.

As for the possibility of her return, well, they'd be daft not to bring her back if the Batwoman TV series has Mary suit up. spoilers:

We already know Luke's getting his Batwing suit, so I won't be surprised if Flamebird isn't far behind.

end of spoilers

[Artemisfanboy]

Dick became Nightwing two years before the Crisis. So, Bette didn't become Flamebird before he became Nightwing.

As for the possibility of her return, well, they'd be daft not to bring her back if the Batwoman TV series has Mary suit up. spoilers:

We already know Luke's getting his Batwing suit, so I won't be surprised if Flamebird isn't far behind.

end of spoilers

If they do, I hope they'd go with the Flamebird name and inspired costume and not "Hawkfire".

[Oberon]

Yes... but I'm sure I've seen this page or panels where FB is totally ogling

Robin's butt. He's in the Robin costume, legs showing and all. Was that a flashback or dream.

Think it was from her hanging with Beast Boy days. Different retcon?

[Oberon]

If they do, I hope they'd go with the Flamebird name and inspired costume and not "Hawkfire".

Me too, because we now know that screen play writers may get ideas from source material but go off on their own.

The idea that someone, Mary, or whoever, would become Flamebird, opens up the idea that some writer, at some point will seize the ideas from 'canon' and go there.

Nightwing, Robin, already appear in various media, so someday, someone might re-invoke that connection (the Soap Opera stuff, basically, which I'm not against, if Bette and whoever do not lose 'THEIR AGENCY'.)